Transformers LFE lacking...what is your disc number? - Page 3 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #61 of 853 Old 10-20-2007, 08:15 AM
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I felt the same way that the movie did not have a ton of bass. Until I read a comment by someone that for DD+ you have to crank the receiver up a bit so you can feel the bass. I tried it and it definetly improved the bass. I will probaly watch the movie again when the family is away. By the way my setup consist of infinity speakers all around with 2 ps212 subwoofers that pump out 800 watts of total power with the Onkyo 805 and Toshiba XA2 and all HDMI!
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post #62 of 853 Old 10-20-2007, 08:22 AM
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I concur with this opinion. The first sequence with Blackout (I think that's his name) is very subdued from what I remember in the theater. The bass seemed missing, most especially from the shockwave. I actually thought my subwoofer had died again (don't ask, short painful story) and I looked to be sure.

Later parts had appropriate bass, I thought, but by then I had turned the volume up to make up for the low-volume of the encode.

Given all the people praising the audio on this one, I figured I was just expecting too much from a Dolby Digital + soundtrack given that oftentimes I find one of the primary differences between lossy and lossless to be with the LFE part of the track. I just figured that was a consequence of getting all those widgets and documentaries I won't use.

I'm pleased to see I'm not the only one suffering from this problem. Hopefully, Paramount will fix it in some way, even if it's re-releasing this movie with a better audio encode.
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post #63 of 853 Old 10-20-2007, 08:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffY View Post

How abut we concentrate on the shockwave scene, because I do get good bass at times but the beginning was distinctly lacking.

Disk #13128

Bass is solid, present, and powerful throughout, however, there is no LFE during shockwave in beginning. I didn't see it in the theater, so I didn't know what to expect. I've played that scene 3 times. There's nothing there, but I don't know if there was intended to be. Other than that, bass is everything it should be, although I'm not one who prefers overemphasized bass.
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post #64 of 853 Old 10-20-2007, 08:41 AM
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I just did an experiment, I set all my speakers to large and switched them off. I then increased the volume well beyond anything I would normally listen at. I got a lot of rumblings but actually during the shockwaves the rumblings hardly changed if at all, there is virtually no LFE used in the shockwaves. This is with an SVS PC Ultra and a Volodyne DD12 in a 7 x 14ft room.
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post #65 of 853 Old 10-20-2007, 08:57 AM
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XBOX 360 here using dual Atlantic Technologies 350THX subwoofer and I agree the pulse blackout at Qatar camp seemed a bit week, but 2 seconds before that pulse there was definetly some LFE coming out. I also noticed when tanks were thrown in the air and landing, some good impact effects were felt. Definetly not LFE as seen in Hot Fuzz (man that was an active mix) but at reference listening levels, I am not sure I would want much more LFE then I was hearing.
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post #66 of 853 Old 10-20-2007, 09:12 AM
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Is it possible that they were going for a subsonic (non)effect with the shockwave? Not having LFE there does create a different feeling when you see the shockwave. Artist's intent?
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post #67 of 853 Old 10-20-2007, 09:16 AM
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Maybe but according to some the shockwaves rank up there with the best LFE moments of LOTR and that is a monster for LFE.
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post #68 of 853 Old 10-20-2007, 10:03 AM
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13128 on mine and LFE is abundant. I don't even have a sub. Currently I am running from my A2 out via optical to my Yammy receiver, getting DTS 1.5, and my speakers are DIY 2way towers (tweet, 2 x 5.25 midbass) and the bass is very very apparent. I had to go in to my receivers settings and turn down the bass because it was too much.

The number that the OP is referring to is located just above the UPC below the words "proof of purchase"

Can we start a tracker or a poll at the beginning of this thread with the options of:

13128 - bass is apparent
13128 - bass is lacking
13127 - bass is apparent
13127 - bass is lacking

These are the only #s that I have found repeating. Can the original poster start this poll and maybe we can come to some conclusions and present them to P/DW. These numbers may refer to a particular pressing plant and that plant may have issues.

On a side note, does everyone remember the old issue with the Jurassic Park DTS when it was released. It terribly lacked bass, and it was brought the the attention of Universal who started a swap program.

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post #69 of 853 Old 10-20-2007, 10:07 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan Peddle View Post

13128 on mine and LFE is abundant. I don't even have a sub. Currently I am running from my A2 out via optical to my Yammy receiver, getting DTS 1.5, and my speakers are DIY 2way towers (tweet, 2 x 5.25 midbass) and the bass is very very apparent. I had to go in to my receivers settings and turn down the bass because it was too much.

The number that the OP is referring to is located just above the UPC below the words "proof of purchase"

Can we start a tracker or a poll at the beginning of this thread with the options of:

13128 - bass is apparent
13128 - bass is lacking
13127 - bass is apparent
13127 - bass is lacking

These are the only #s that I have found repeating. Can the original poster start this poll and maybe we can come to some conclusions and present them to P/DW. These numbers may refer to a particular pressing plant and that plant may have issues.

On a side note, does everyone remember the old issue with the Jurassic Park DTS when it was released. It terribly lacked bass, and it was brought the the attention of Universal who started a swap program.


All good suggestions, but dont we need the number on the disc itself? People have reported different numbers from the UPC one to the disc number.
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post #70 of 853 Old 10-20-2007, 10:29 AM
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QC issue....I guess 28 is the consensus disc? Glad I've not purchased yet.

Goodbye to a great audio and video genius and writer... JOHN GANNON. I enjoyed your friendship, wit and a nice long run we took around Indianapolis at CEDIA years back... and for buying my Runco 980 Ultra years back... you saved my ass! Rest in peace.
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post #71 of 853 Old 10-20-2007, 10:46 AM
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I did not have an LFE problem but I did read somewhere that a guy raised his LFE 3db and was blown away...why not try that...I did and at 1:55 in the movie where the bot rolls over that chick shook the whole room[15x22]!!

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post #72 of 853 Old 10-20-2007, 10:48 AM
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On my ed a3-300 the bass was shocking......

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post #73 of 853 Old 10-20-2007, 11:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jpco View Post

Is it possible that they were going for a subsonic (non)effect with the shockwave? Not having LFE there does create a different feeling when you see the shockwave. Artist's intent?

I don't think it was the director's intent because I felt the "oomph" in the theatre.
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post #74 of 853 Old 10-20-2007, 11:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Twylight View Post

why would those sound setting affect anything? they are for the line outs on the player...unless you are using the line outs instead of HDMI...

Totally agree, this business of player speaker management impacting the PCM over HDMI is a surprise to me. If true, this is defect in the player and should be addressed.
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post #75 of 853 Old 10-20-2007, 11:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DonnerHead View Post

All good suggestions, but dont we need the number on the disc itself? People have reported different numbers from the UPC one to the disc number.

There is no "number" directly on the disc itself.

OK, I want everyone to get there copy of TF including the plastic sleeve. On the top right corner of the back of the case is the UPC/POP. You will also see a TRANSFORMERS logo, directly below that is "proof of purchase" and a number below that. Mine is 13128 and my overall UPC is 097361312804.

Lets get some sort of organization here.

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post #76 of 853 Old 10-20-2007, 11:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thebland View Post

QC issue....I guess 28 is the consensus disc? Glad I've not purchased yet.

From what I can see 28 is the good LFE disc as I and others have not had any problems with it.

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post #77 of 853 Old 10-20-2007, 11:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan Peddle View Post

13128 on mine and LFE is abundant. I don't even have a sub. Currently I am running from my A2 out via optical to my Yammy receiver, getting DTS 1.5, and my speakers are DIY 2way towers (tweet, 2 x 5.25 midbass) and the bass is very very apparent. I had to go in to my receivers settings and turn down the bass because it was too much.

I agree that there is plenty of bass in the mains. The question is whether the LFE (.1) channel is correct or lacking. If you do not have a sub, you are not really utilizing the LFE portion of the 5.1 sountrack.
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post #78 of 853 Old 10-20-2007, 11:24 AM
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I have 13127, bass is lacking.

Edit: I have 13127 writen on the disc and 13128 on the sleeve
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post #79 of 853 Old 10-20-2007, 11:31 AM
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noticed the low volume issue too.. lfe seemed to work but it lacked in the first explosion
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post #80 of 853 Old 10-20-2007, 11:37 AM
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Watched it last night, good bass thoughout, nothing for the shockwave. I remember the shockwave being sick in the theaters, so I don't know what happened there.

Thanks to whomever wrote the tip about rechecking my XA2 setup after the firmware update. It had set dynamic range comp. to Auto, so I went back in and turned it off. Made Transformers sound even better when I checked it out again. Everybody should really double check these settings to make sure they haven't been reset.
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post #81 of 853 Old 10-20-2007, 11:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hawkeye3.1 View Post

Totally agree, this business of player speaker management impacting the PCM over HDMI is a surprise to me. If true, this is defect in the player and should be addressed.

Well, it is true. I've witnessed this firsthand when I had the A1, and it's been discussed numerous times in the hardware forum with regards to all of the Toshiba HD DVD players that have multichannel analog output.

A real oddity is that setting the SPDIF setting to "PCM" on the second generation players results in the players to up-sample a 48 kHz PCM signal to 96 kHz over HDMI. This is an undesirable result given that most high-end audio processors already up-sample before the DAC process, and most low- to mid-end audio processors can't do much digital processing to 96 kHz PCM. I believe you cannot defeat this process at all with the first generation models. Anyway, this is also something to consider when trying to achieve optimum quality when using HDMI connectivity.
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post #82 of 853 Old 10-20-2007, 11:55 AM
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"Let me assure you there was a HUGE shockwave when I saw this at the Empire on 26th July and with 56KW of JBL THX there wouldn’t be anything less than perfection on the low end. The wave jolted me back in the rocker chair with pleasing smile that extended beyond the width of the largest THX screen in the UK!

It’s not the fault of the HD-DVD it’s more likely you’re home cinema, so re-calibrate it. The Empire often gets Dolby, in to align most films for the cinemas acoustics, something that most of you probably don’t do. You take all this (LFE.1) for granted and that’s what it really boils down to.

It’s an unpredictable channel that can happen at any moment, to support what ever the mixers or the director wishes, to add more support and drama to the films soundtrack." - JBLSound.

Ashley why are you even commenting on this, you don't own a HD-DVD player (much less a HDTV). Considering this is a problem (the shockwave scene) is a problem that most people are having, it's not our equipment but the engineer who mixed the soundtrack for the HD-DVD. I have tried this on both my systems (using an HD-DVD player XA-1 and an A-2) and using two different recievers (Denon 4802R via optical and Multichannel Analog PCM and Denon 3808ci via HDMI) same thing on both sytems, the bass is lacking in the shockwave scene. So please leave your comments to yourself till you actually buy a system that isnt run through six seperate PROLOGIC gears and can actually hear an HD-DVD player that is using DD+. Thanks.
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post #83 of 853 Old 10-20-2007, 12:00 PM
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No problem here, tons of bone crushing bass.

I just don't see how there can be different LFE levels depending on replication...

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post #84 of 853 Old 10-20-2007, 12:10 PM
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I seem to have a different issue than everyone else.

I have the 13128 disc. Abundant bass, however, this is the first disc I have either in HD DVD or BD where my sub gets distorted. Its a Definitive 10' 450 watt. Its especially evident with the helicopter flying around the pentagon in the beginning of the flick. I don't think my sub is a POS, but I'm not certain its the disc either.

Any ideas or suggestions?
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post #85 of 853 Old 10-20-2007, 12:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jpco View Post

Disk #13128

Bass is solid, present, and powerful throughout, however, there is no LFE during shockwave in beginning. I didn't see it in the theater, so I didn't know what to expect. I've played that scene 3 times. There's nothing there, but I don't know if there was intended to be. Other than that, bass is everything it should be, although I'm not one who prefers overemphasized bass.

Same exact thing here, same exact disk # as well
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post #86 of 853 Old 10-20-2007, 12:16 PM
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Lotr?????
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post #87 of 853 Old 10-20-2007, 12:31 PM
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The only way there could be a different LFE from disk to disk is if they used different encodes for different pressings which I would file under the "highly unlikely" category.
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post #88 of 853 Old 10-20-2007, 12:42 PM
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Just for reference, Kong on my system rocks the whole house. The T-rex scene is what I'm using as a point of reference, and although TF sounds crisp and clear I'm getting very little LFE (nothing that comes close to Kong vs. Rex.) It's not an HD-DVD problem, it's not a problem with my system, it is a problem with this particular disk/title. This is NOT a knock on HD-DVD, I'm just not getting the same performance with this title that is being reported.

Recap:
Kong = Crazy LFE shakes the house!
TF = Where's the beef... er LFE?
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post #89 of 853 Old 10-20-2007, 12:44 PM
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TF xbox360 trailer had alot more bass, but i prefer the hddvd more balanced sound.
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post #90 of 853 Old 10-20-2007, 12:55 PM
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OK guys I am having the problem with low LFE as well. My disc number is 13128.
I watch HD DVD's through my 360 add on set to output dts through optical. I have never had any LFE issues with my other titles. I did try something though. I went into the digital sound options for the add on and changed it from dts to digital stero then i set my reciever to "movie" mode, where it simulates the stero to 5.1, (you guys know how it works, basically prologic). When I did that i had much more LFE. The shockwave had a lot more bass and when he first transformed and started shooting his machine gun every bullet had bass in it. In DTS it was very minimal. Now I know it is not spreading the sound through the channels like it should because i have it set to digital stereo but it is sending more bass to the sub than it does in the downmixed 5.1 dts, where each channel should be discretely seperated. That leads me to beleive that for some reason the 5.1 track LFE is not correct, or if it is, it is just low on LFE and that is how they intended it.

I don't know the answer, some people say their LFE is fine but thats all in the ear of the beholder. I don't know if there is a real problem with the discs or people just hear things differently. All i know is when I switch it to digital stero the track is louder as well over all and a lot more LFE. But I dont want to watch in digital stero i want true 5.1
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