Can HD DVD-Audio be the future of the Music Industry? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 204 Old 12-04-2007, 07:01 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I think everybody know that is DVD-Audio.
Just several months ago the First HD DVD-Audio title was introduced to the public by Surround Music artist and producer Alexander Jero, and 6 more titles is out created by this artist.
The concept is to produce HD DVD titles with lossless Multichannel Audio created especially created for this kind of experience accompanied by high resolution Image content.
Can this be the way of how we can experience music in the future?
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post #2 of 204 Old 12-04-2007, 07:04 PM
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Maybe to us nichers, but the cattle have chosen to follow a tic-tac case that plays sub-FM quality digital files...
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post #3 of 204 Old 12-04-2007, 07:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Damnationdoormat View Post

Maybe to us nichers, but the cattle have chosen to follow a tic-tac case that plays sub-FM quality digital files...

Hard to carry an entire stereo system in my pocket while I'm working. Not everyone just sits around in their house and listens to music believe it or not.
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post #4 of 204 Old 12-04-2007, 07:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WD34 View Post

Hard to carry an entire stereo system in my pocket while I'm working. Not everyone just sits around in their house and listens to music believe it or not.

Exactly. The majority of people won't take the time to sit down surrounded by speakers just to listen to music.

SACD = fail
DVD-Audio = fail
HD DVD Audio = fail
(Insert surround sound audio format) = fail
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post #5 of 204 Old 12-04-2007, 07:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WD34 View Post

Hard to carry an entire stereo system in my pocket while I'm working. Not everyone just sits around in their house and listens to music believe it or not.

True, but many of us commute in cars, and some luxury cars already have 5.1 DVD-Audio setups standard.

Seeing as I can crank my music in the car, fidelity is key.

My point is while mp3 and the like are great for portable music, they should not become the sole delivery method for music, as many people still use music on something other than ear buds.
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post #6 of 204 Old 12-04-2007, 07:11 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by Damnationdoormat View Post

Maybe to us nichers, but the cattle have chosen to follow a tic-tac case that plays sub-FM quality digital files...

Interesting: D
Sorry, but your post beyond my understanding
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post #7 of 204 Old 12-04-2007, 07:24 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AJ_Syrinx View Post

Exactly. The majority of people won't take the time to sit down surrounded by speakers just to listen to music.

SACD = fail
DVD-Audio = fail
HD DVD Audio = fail
(Insert surround sound audio format) = fail

But you not carry HDTV in your pocket as well, you sit down and watching it.
Why are you regecting that fact?

My opinion
future of HD DVD Audio = future of HD DVD

becouse you tell by this forum that people are interested in High Rez Audio as well as High Rez Video.
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post #8 of 204 Old 12-04-2007, 07:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clara Fox View Post

I think everybody know that is DVD-Audio.
Just several months ago the First HD DVD-Audio title was introduced to the public by Surround Music artist and producer Alexander Jero, and 6 more titles is out created by this artist.
The concept is to produce HD DVD titles with lossless Multichannel Audio created especially created for this kind of experience accompanied by high resolution Image content.
Can this be the way of how we can experience music in the future?

While I would certainly hope that HD multichannel releases become the standard format for music releases, I am far from optimistic that they will. Considering the cost involved and the rather small market, why would any of the mainstream producers think it more viable than SACD or DVD-A?

That said, I recently greatly enjoyed the Opus Arte HD-DVDs of "A Midsummer's Night Dream" and of "Die Zauberflöte." Beautiful images and great music and these were not even pushing the envelope for sound quality.

Kal Rubinson

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post #9 of 204 Old 12-04-2007, 07:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Damnationdoormat View Post

Maybe to us nichers, but the cattle have chosen to follow a tic-tac case that plays sub-FM quality digital files...

Some of those tic-tac cases support lossless compression. Of course, that's only half the battle (headphone amplification being the other part).
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post #10 of 204 Old 12-04-2007, 07:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bunkaroo View Post

True, but many of us commute in cars, and some luxury cars already have 5.1 DVD-Audio setups standard.

Seeing as I can crank my music in the car, fidelity is key.

My point is while mp3 and the like are great for portable music, they should not become the sole delivery method for music, as many people still use music on something other than ear buds.

the real problem is that the portable player, for the masses, has become the sit-down, in the house player, too. all those i-pod docks, all the cords that connect i-pods to receivers, etc... people don't want to have a music collection twice; why bother when you can just plug your mp3/itunes player into a receiver, and have it play that way?

but this doesn't speak to hi res audio. there can be hi res audio without hd-dvd; distributed in a digital format over the internet for people who are willing to pay a premium for it. this will likely be through i-tunes type services, where they can just pick the songs they want and pay $1.50 instead of $15 for the whole cd. hd dvd audio may become a replacement for cd's somewhere down the line, if hi res audio begins to surpass normal itunes fair in the future.

i think this is one of those situations where adoption is going to have to happen through the internet, and then b&m music stores have to hope that people want the hard copies.

i think normal cd audio is on a downward trend simply because it's easier to download what you want through a service and burn it to your hard drive/mp3 player/ipod/cell phone. eventually (maybe in 10-15 years, max) i think hard copy audio altogether will be an niche product, much like LPs are now.

remember, the current generation is being raised on pocket-music and convenience. they're not going to change as they grow up.
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post #11 of 204 Old 12-04-2007, 08:07 PM
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i no longer believe the average person cares about high resolution music, nor do i believe the music studios care about reselling their products using technology that addresses the piracy problems they allegedly face. I love my SACD, but its pathetic how pervasive crap quality music is these days, and no one seems to actually care.
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post #12 of 204 Old 12-04-2007, 08:13 PM
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I certainly hope for HD DVD Audio releases.

HD DVD concerts is also something I'd like to see more of.
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post #13 of 204 Old 12-04-2007, 08:14 PM
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Originally Posted by patmiller View Post

But you not carry HDTV in your pocket as well, you sit down and watching it.
Why are you regecting that fact?

Because there is no need to acknowledge that "fact" in the first place, as it is irrelevant. Audio ≠ video.

Quote:


future of HD DVD Audio = future of HD DVD

Well I sure hope not, because I'd like to see HD DVD succeed.

We do not train to be merciful here.
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post #14 of 204 Old 12-04-2007, 08:33 PM
 
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Originally Posted by TV Casualty View Post

Because there is no need to acknowledge that "fact" in the first place, as it is irrelevant. Audio ≠ video.


Well I sure hope not, because I'd like to see HD DVD succeed.

You talk like a true pessimist, that I actually meant that HD DVD-Audio will follow HD DVD.

People love to sit down and listen to music and surround sound is the part of HDTV experience now
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post #15 of 204 Old 12-04-2007, 08:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patmiller View Post

People love to sit down and listen to music and surround sound is the part of HDTV experience now

Unfortunately, there are all too few (of us) who do. Most listen on the fly or with the music as wallpaper.

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post #16 of 204 Old 12-04-2007, 08:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson View Post

Unfortunately, there are all too few (of us) who do. Most listen on the fly or with the music as wallpaper.

True. I'm the only person I know who takes time to just listen to high quality multichannel music. Everyone I know thinks I'm crazy to continue investing in DVD-Audio and SACD when cheaper, but much lesser quality alternatives are available.
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post #17 of 204 Old 12-04-2007, 08:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Damnationdoormat View Post

Maybe to us nichers, but the cattle have chosen to follow a tic-tac case that plays sub-FM quality digital files...

My 'tic tac case' supports flac

Back off man, I'm a scientist.
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post #18 of 204 Old 12-04-2007, 08:59 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson View Post

Unfortunately, there are all too few (of us) who do. Most listen on the fly or with the music as wallpaper.


Wallpaper or background music, why not, the idea is to create perfect HD audio/video environment. You can be in the mood for movie or music but stay surround by HD Experience without changing format.
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post #19 of 204 Old 12-04-2007, 10:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deckerm View Post

its pathetic how pervasive crap quality music is these days

Are you talking about delivery format, production or, you know, the music?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sturgeon%27s_Law

You have to admit, though, that mp3, internet radio and such provide a much better way of discovering music than homogenized FM, at least in the U.S.. Remember how CD sales spiked after napster?

I think HT enthusiasm helps serve as a gateway to education about audio. It seems like a wider range of people actually bother to research their HT options and setups than how to properly set up a two channel system, even if it's only a HTIB. So maybe there's hope yet.
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post #20 of 204 Old 12-04-2007, 10:09 PM
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My opinion: HD DVD Audio will be COMPLETELY irrelevant. Nobody cares. Err... Scratch that. Almost nobody cares.

And I say this as someone who owns DVD Audio hardware and software.
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post #21 of 204 Old 12-04-2007, 10:26 PM
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Multi-channel audio (without video) only appeals to a niche demographic and is destined to remain that way. Remember "Video Killed The Radio Star"? Well it's happening again. Most people buying HDTVs aren't concerned that much with sound. I mean, they get their HTiBs and all, but at the end of the day if they aren't watching a movie, they won't sit down in the living room to listen to music.

Listen, I really love music, and multichannel audio appeals to me, but try convincing your family to:

1) Leave you alone in your living room "sweet spot" so you can listen to multi-channel audio

2) Join you in your living room only for them to get bored a minute after sitting down

Read what BuGsArEtAsTy wrote. He owns DVD-Audio hardware and software and is convinced that it won't take off. Columnists in audiophile magazines are convinced as well.

Convenience has beaten quality to the ground. People want to listen to their music everywhere they go, and multi-channel cannot follow them everywhere.
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post #22 of 204 Old 12-04-2007, 11:05 PM
 
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What's the quality of these types of HD-DVD audio discs compared to SACD?
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post #23 of 204 Old 12-04-2007, 11:17 PM
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You release one Beatles album in multichannel surround with HD footage of the group thrown in as video background to the album and everyone would buy it. A high profile release would open eyes to the possibilities, and that's all it might take.
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post #24 of 204 Old 12-04-2007, 11:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Scott View Post

You release one Beatles album in multichannel surround with HD footage of the group thrown in as video background to the album and everyone would buy it. A high profile release would open eyes to the possibilities, and that's all it might take.

"This is gonna replace CDs soon. Guess I'll have to buy the White Album again."

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post #25 of 204 Old 12-04-2007, 11:27 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AJ_Syrinx View Post

Multi-channel audio (without video) only appeals to a niche demographic and is destined to remain that way. Remember "Video Killed The Radio Star"? Well it's happening again. Most people buying HDTVs aren't concerned that much with sound. I mean, they get their HTiBs and all, but at the end of the day if they aren't watching a movie, they won't sit down in the living room to listen to music.

Listen, I really love music, and multichannel audio appeals to me, but try convincing your family to:

1) Leave you alone in your living room "sweet spot" so you can listen to multi-channel audio

2) Join you in your living room only for them to get bored a minute after sitting down

Read what BuGsArEtAsTy wrote. He owns DVD-Audio hardware and software and is convinced that it won't take off. Columnists in audiophile magazines are convinced as well.

Convenience has beaten quality to the ground. People want to listen to their music everywhere they go, and multi-channel cannot follow them everywhere.


If we talking about social aspects I can point that many people are buying this new HD DVD-Audio titles to have it as a introduction of the movie event, and it is work great for this porpoise.

However economically everybody look at that from the DVD-A downfall point of view, NO, TRY TO LOOK AT THIS AS A HD DVD PRODUCT
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post #26 of 204 Old 12-05-2007, 12:38 AM
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The only fact I can think of that might help is that there are more 5.1 surround sound systems in people's homes now and a lot of concert DVDs have very impressive sound. It's not hard to be impressed by how good they sound.

I think this will increase the demand for high quality surround channel recordings but it will still be a niche market for audiophiles who simply must have the highest quality recording available, just like the half-speed mastered vinyl recordings were in the 70's and 80's.

But there's nothing wrong with creating a product that fills a niche market. That's what HD-DVD and Blu-Ray are doing right now.

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post #27 of 204 Old 12-05-2007, 02:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Damnationdoormat View Post

Maybe to us nichers, but the cattle have chosen to follow a tic-tac case that plays sub-FM quality digital files...

I always hear people say that but honestly I have mp3's that would blow away FM. In fact all the ones I have sound way better than what you hear on the FM. Maybe the people who say this are errrrrrrr converting their songs into sub 128k.

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post #28 of 204 Old 12-05-2007, 06:34 AM
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I run daily, and have an I-pod I use when I run. However, besides that, I never use the thing unless I'm on an airplane for business or something like that. It sounds like crap on a decent stereo system. I have no need to walk the streets wearing it and look like some sort of moron. And don't get me started on the I-phone, between that thing and text messaging I'm afraid to get near anyone on the road under 24 years old.

High-res audio won't survive without it being part of a live album, or at least some sort of visual component. The Dave Matthews Blu-Ray concert is incredible, but I'm guessing most people wouldn't consider it if it didn't have the video to match the audio. Ok, to be fair, some of us would, but generally speaking, it simply wouldn't be enough stimulation for people.
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post #29 of 204 Old 12-05-2007, 06:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BuGsArEtAsTy View Post

My opinion: HD DVD Audio will be COMPLETELY irrelevant. Nobody cares. Err... Scratch that. Almost nobody cares.

And I say this as someone who owns DVD Audio hardware and software.

yea, i think this is right... as one who owns several "tic tac" cases and dvd-a hardware, i think that it falls into the category of "very few will care"...

i'd buy it... a few others here would... but i can't see it being anything but ancillary to hd-dvd...

too bad... since some of us fall into the category of using both...

it's a fact of modern day life that people have several more entertainment options than just sitting and listening to music... not to mention the fact that they have many more things crammed into their lives now than they used to (no comment on whether or not that's "good" or "bad", it's just the way it is)... some of us are lucky enough that we can still have an hour or two every now and then to put on a good recording and really listen to it... but most don't... attention span is an issue as well...

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post #30 of 204 Old 12-05-2007, 08:23 AM
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I am one of those people who is continuously surrounded by music. I use my iPod a lot, but I also have a high quality SACD/DVD-A music system for serious listening, and I use it.

There is NO disc format that is the "future of the music industry," because the future of music-as-big-business is all about downloadable media and portable devices, about wireless in-home distribution, about cross-media promotion.

But the fact that lossless multichannel music is a niche market means something different than it did ten or twenty years ago. Niche markets are sustainable now. Profit can be made selling 10,000 units of a title, a number that would have been an abject failure before the Internet cut the cost of promotion by several orders of magnitude.

I agree that DVD-A and SACD failed due to lack of interest. Poor promotion helped, but public indifference was the real killer. People don't even care about the difference between a Redbook CD and a 128k mpg file, let alone hi-rez surround audio.

But today, that doesn't have to be a deal breaker. There are enough people interested in HR audio to allow the band Porcupine Tree, for instance, to continue releasing both their current output and their back catalog in DVD-A. They do it mostly with viral marketing, word-of-mouth on forums like this, and direct promotion to their audience.

Sure, I wish everything I wanted to listen to was available in the best possible quality. Maybe someday it will be. But it won't be on physical media that has to be manufactured, packaged, shipped and sold one unit at a time.

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