Why Warner had it right with HD/DVD combo discs (HD disc sales will be poor) - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 89 Old 01-23-2008, 08:00 PM - Thread Starter
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While having originally grumbled at the higher priced combo-discs (Where was my cheaper stand-alone version of Superman Returns!?!) I quickly realized how important the combo discs are. Since I already owned the SD version of SR, no big deal, however...

A couple weeks ago I went to purchase StarDust. After about 10 min. of internal debating, I ended up picking the SD version over the HD-DVD version. Why? Because I knew that my daughter would want to watch it in her room, or the SUV, or perhaps lend it to a friend... (I reaaaallly wanted the HD, but just didn't make sense)

Unless HD players come down drastically in cost and folks are willing to replace their DVD hardware, I just don't see people buying too many HD discs after the initial excitement factor...

I'm considering picking up a PS3, but if there are no possibilities of combo discs in the future, I think I may just pass on the whole HD disc phase.
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post #2 of 89 Old 01-23-2008, 08:05 PM
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Combo discs are great if you have kids or multiple DVD players around the house, and who doesn't have multiple DVD players these days...

I think Paramount truly missed the boat by not making Shrek III a combo.
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post #3 of 89 Old 01-23-2008, 08:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean_O View Post

I think Paramount truly missed the boat by not making Shrek III a combo.

+1

They are repeating that mistake with Bee Movie. Universal won't make that mistake with Veggie Tales. However, that won't be out until fall at the earliest.
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post #4 of 89 Old 01-23-2008, 08:15 PM
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This is why I always felt that Disney would have jumped on HD DVD long ago. Of course, I'm sure Sony's money was the main thing stopping them.

Still, I'm sure parents would go ape over a combo disc version of whatever given Disney kids movie..
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post #5 of 89 Old 01-23-2008, 08:19 PM
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new films that you dont already have in your collection makes perfect sense to get a combo to me. catalog titles i already have in SD i dont see a point in a combo. so for future films combo's could become very useful...
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post #6 of 89 Old 01-23-2008, 08:30 PM
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It's a double edged sword. "Flipper" discs are more prone to damage as both sides are functional (thus vulnerable) and they cost more--enough that many who don't want to be confined to their HD DVD player choose the SD release as a compromise. IF the price came down to within 2-3$ of the SD release (rather than the 5$ premium over non-combo HD discs) AND the studios made those titles single-inventory, THEN it might be attractive to the mainstream (the lower cost would obviate the more fragile nature of the discs). But I won't hold my breath.
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post #7 of 89 Old 01-23-2008, 08:36 PM
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My wife was sick tonight, laying upstairs in bed with the SD side of our combo version of Harry Potter: OOTP.

Combos were the right thing. They were used 100% incorrectly.
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post #8 of 89 Old 01-23-2008, 08:38 PM
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Originally Posted by allargon View Post

+1

They are repeating that mistake with Bee Movie. Universal won't make that mistake with Veggie Tales. However, that won't be out until fall at the earliest.

That's too bad.

I think that any children's movie on HD is at an automatic disadvantage compared to the SD version. The kids will get much more use out of a children's title than the adults would, and the kids are far more likely to be watching on SD DVD.

That probably means those HD adopters with families buy the SD DVD version of a kid's title if there is no HD DVD combo version to be had.

I suppose Paramount/DW are probably hoping some people will buy both the HD and the SD discs where with a combo they would buy only one.

It might pad their bottom line ever so slightly in the short term, but such strategy really does nothing to help expand the HD market into the mainstream.
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post #9 of 89 Old 01-23-2008, 09:05 PM
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Combo's are the reason I went with HD DVD. Even if Blu is declared uber alles, even if sometime in the future I purchase a Blu Ray player, I will still purchase any kid movies on SD. Why? Because I can't play a Blu Ray in the van on those long trips to Grandma's house. Now a Disney Combo, that would be a no-brainer purchase. HD for the home theater, SD for the van/playroom. Disney really missed the boat. But I guess if they think we'll double dip for SD & HD...
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post #10 of 89 Old 01-23-2008, 09:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daveyhatton View Post

While having originally grumbled at the higher priced combo-discs (Where was my cheaper stand-alone version of Superman Returns!?!) I quickly realized how important the combo discs are. Since I already owned the SD version of SR, this was a no-brainer, however...

A couple weeks ago I went to purchase StarDust. After about 10 min. of internal debating, I ended up picking the SD version over the HD-DVD version. Why? Because I knew that my daughter would want to watch it in her room, or the SUV, or perhaps lend it to a friend... (I reaaaallly wanted the HD, but just didn't make sense)

Unless HD players come down drastically in cost and folks are willing to replace their DVD hardware, I just don't see people buying too many HD discs after the initial excitement factor...

I'm considering picking up a PS3, but if there are no possibilities of combo discs in the future, I think I may just pass on the whole HD disc phase.

You made a big mistake. If you care about the best presentation of a movie you can possibly own and enjoy, HD is the way to go.

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post #11 of 89 Old 01-23-2008, 09:09 PM
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COMBOs are the biggest turn OFF factor for me. Because of their high unreliability and flimsy nature I was forced to import the titles from U.K or OZ. Remember the rest of the world hates COMBO.

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post #12 of 89 Old 01-23-2008, 09:23 PM
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Originally Posted by lgans316 View Post

COMBOs are the biggest turn OFF factor for me. Because of their high unreliability and flimsy nature I was forced to import the titles from U.K or OZ. Remember the rest of the world hates COMBO.

What exactly are you basing this "unreliability" on?

I own (only) 17 "combos" and have not had 1 problem with any of them.

I'm sure some people do/did have problems at one time or another, but sometimes I think people read about other people's problems and take that as fact.

Flimsy? not following that one, but OK.

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post #13 of 89 Old 01-23-2008, 09:35 PM
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I'm okay with studios releasing both a combo and non-combo of movies at the same time. Its when they release only non-combos that pisses me off. I have missed out on some great movie because they were only released as combo's. Although I am willing to make that sacrifice and wait until a non-combo is released.
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post #14 of 89 Old 01-23-2008, 09:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wipron View Post

What exactly are you basing this "unreliability" on?

I own (only) 17 "combos" and have not had 1 problem with any of them.

I'm sure some people do/did have problems at one time or another, but sometimes I think people read about other people's problems and take that as fact.

Flimsy? not following that one, but OK.

I imagine it would be prone to damage more . Too bad studios cant just include an SD movie version with the HD DVD. Probably wouldn't cost anymore than a dollar or so.

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post #15 of 89 Old 01-23-2008, 09:53 PM
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Price is the killer factor for HD in general. For the Enthusiast market, I can see how combo is a turn off, but for the mass market Combos has a definite advantage. It just need to drop in price within a $5 range of DVD. People don't mind paying $5 more than DVD, but not $5 more than HDM disc. Which means, the whole HDM market just need to drop in price

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post #16 of 89 Old 01-23-2008, 09:55 PM
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Originally Posted by bjmarchini View Post

I imagine it would be prone to damage more . Too bad studios cant just include an SD movie version with the HD DVD. Probably wouldn't cost anymore than a dollar or so.

If they made a special edition, I would like to see them add a hard coating to that edition.

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post #17 of 89 Old 01-23-2008, 09:56 PM
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For those of you saying Shrek 3 and Disney movies would be great as combos, think about this -- would you want a 3-10 yr old getting his/her gooey hands on your 25-35 dollar disc? I doubt it. Most kids want to watch the same movie 20 times. They'll be watching in the personal dvd player most likely.. and who knows whats been in there. When you factor all these things in, it doesnt make sense to get a Combo disc. Now -- if you're still fine with them getting play-doh on your disc...

The reason why the kid is watching the movie in SD is because most people can't/won't buy their kids a high definition tv. When DVD came out, people already have 2-3 tvs in the house and all were able to take on a 40-50 dollar dvd player. Less HDTVs means less media sold... (niche market?)... This is what actually makes the combo attractive... watch the DVD in the car, or in the small tv in the bedroom... I just dont think the "kids" thing is the best example now comes the story of people who have a 5 yr old that's extremely careful with dvds.

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post #18 of 89 Old 01-23-2008, 10:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GamerGuyX View Post

I'm okay with studios releasing both a combo and non-combo of movies at the same time. Its when they release only non-combos that pisses me off. I have missed out on some great movie because they were only released as combo's. Although I am willing to make that sacrifice and wait until a non-combo is released.

Every time you post this, I always post in response "just import it".

We all know you have a massive hard-on for hating combos with the passion of a thousand suns but really this is enough.

Every thread that even remotely has a combo disc mentioned, you rush in and post the same manifesto on why you hate them. Every thread, same response, it gets old.
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post #19 of 89 Old 01-23-2008, 10:15 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by eapleitez View Post

You made a big mistake. If you care about the best presentation of a movie you can possibly own and enjoy, HD is the way to go.

What a weird response. Of course I care, which is why I bought an HD-DVD player in the first place. Had there been a combo disc that offered the flexibility of play in not only all of our other rooms in the house, but in our family truckster as well, then that would've been a no-brainer. It's kind of nice to be able to lend discs to my less fortunate friends as well.
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post #20 of 89 Old 01-23-2008, 10:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stumlad View Post

For those of you saying Shrek 3 and Disney movies would be great as combos, think about this -- would you want a 3-10 yr old getting his/her gooey hands on your 25-35 dollar disc? I doubt it. Most kids want to watch the same movie 20 times. They'll be watching in the personal dvd player most likely.. and who knows whats been in there. When you factor all these things in, it doesnt make sense to get a Combo disc. Now -- if you're still fine with them getting play-doh on your disc...

Ummm, you let your 3 year old handle your movies without supervision??

My 3 year old was tought how to handle a DVD. He can open the case, take the DVD out, hold it with the thumb and finger, open the DVD player, put it in the DVD player, and close the door using the button.

Why? Because while he wanted to be the "helper", there was no way I would let him TOUCH THE CASE of a movie without me right there next to him. And if I saw him for a second manhandle a disc, he would not be touching them again.
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post #21 of 89 Old 01-23-2008, 10:23 PM
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Considering the poor handling of discs by Children it's better to have HD DVD and the SD version separately however on a single case. Considering the current circumstances I would recommend the HD DVD studios to adopt this strategy and bring back the lost hopes. I don't think COMBO discs will sell well at this stage. The best option for purist is to wait for the non-combo release or import it from U.K or OZ.

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post #22 of 89 Old 01-23-2008, 10:32 PM
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Some adults need supervision when handling discs.

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post #23 of 89 Old 01-23-2008, 11:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Yumbo View Post

Some adults need supervision when handling discs.

First Michael's post about how 'if' his kid manhandled DVDs... makes me smile and then you go post what I was thinking. I'm such a little bitch when it comes to lending out DVDs to anyone, there's a play-doh kid in most people. A big play-doh kid. The horror.

So yeah, nothing wrong with combos except: price and lack of non-combo. This post is a repeat, too, but it's still true. And good call on making the combo releases separate discs at the same price. The way they're used would favor that approach (give SD to greasy small or big kid, keep HD). Bandai went that route on their BD releases in Japan, only they missed the point and made people pay for 2 releases. Just read the customer reviews on Amazon Japan if you want to know how they liked that idea. Let's just say even arrogant Bandai have conceded the point as of this month. No price premium you suckers, the SD is a feature of convenience on the HD release.
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post #24 of 89 Old 01-24-2008, 05:37 AM
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Originally Posted by bjmarchini View Post

I imagine it would be prone to damage more . Too bad studios cant just include an SD movie version with the HD DVD. Probably wouldn't cost anymore than a dollar or so.

That was what I was thinking when all the combo "issues" started to surface. For the current price of combos, I could see them charging the same for this considering it might actually be cheaper.
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post #25 of 89 Old 01-24-2008, 06:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Liersi View Post

First Michael's post about how 'if' his kid manhandled DVDs... makes me smile and then you go post what I was thinking. I'm such a little bitch when it comes to lending out DVDs to anyone, there's a play-doh kid in most people. A big play-doh kid. The horror.

So yeah, nothing wrong with combos except: price and lack of non-combo. This post is a repeat, too, but it's still true. And good call on making the combo releases separate discs at the same price. The way they're used would favor that approach (give SD to greasy small or big kid, keep HD). Bandai went that route on their BD releases in Japan, only they missed the point and made people pay for 2 releases. Just read the customer reviews on Amazon Japan if you want to know how they liked that idea. Let's just say even arrogant Bandai have conceded the point as of this month. No price premium you suckers, the SD is a feature of convenience on the HD release.

if you are so worried your kids are going to manhandle your hd dvd combo discs, you should just buy a program (like "dvd x copy", i think the name is if you can find it, but i believe the mpaa sued them into bankruptcy), some dvd-r's, and some dvd cases. make a perfect copy of your movie for your own personal use, which should be allowed (regardless of whatever the digital millenium copyright act says).
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post #26 of 89 Old 01-24-2008, 06:58 AM
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Love combos. I only have one Hddvd player, and if I get a movie that my wife does not like I can watch it on my computer and/or another TV.

As far as kids go. Mine are pretty good with handling the discs, but you could make a backup copy of the SD side for use in the car. This is 100% legal since you own the movie.
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post #27 of 89 Old 01-24-2008, 07:19 AM
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Originally Posted by dcrum View Post

Love combos. I only have one Hddvd player, and if I get a movie that my wife does not like I can watch it on my computer and/or another TV.

As far as kids go. Mine are pretty good with handling the discs, but you could make a backup copy of the SD side for use in the car. This is 100% legal since you own the movie.

Actually according to the DMCA, it's not legal when the discs are CSS protected. Sorry.

My only issues with Warner's combos were the prices. At Fry's the SD DVD of We Are Marshall during its release week was $23, the Blu-Ray was $26 and the HD DVD was on sale for $28 regularly priced at $36? $3 more than the SD DVD is a no brainer. $13 more?

I love loaning combos to friends. Moreover, I like being able to play the SD DVD side on my laptop, my desktop and friends minivans. Harry Potter: Order of the Phoenix showed the selling power of combos when priced appropriately.
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post #28 of 89 Old 01-24-2008, 07:23 AM
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I totally agree. I never fully understood the hate towards combos. If the studios would release only combos (as has been suggested here before) they would have an instant base of HD-DVD media sales. Not to mention that from what I have read and heard HD-DVD is cheaper to reproduce than SD. Not sure why but that is what I have been told.

Anyhoo, BR (while I might eventually go purple) will not get the same install base if they don't offer combos. Think of all the portable DVD players, built-in car/SUV/Mini-Van SD installations around the country. These facts alone make it unreasonable to purchase and HDM only disks.

My .02 cents.
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post #29 of 89 Old 01-24-2008, 07:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sporadic View Post

Every time you post this, I always post in response "just import it".

We all know you have a massive hard-on for hating combos with the passion of a thousand suns but really this is enough.

Every thread that even remotely has a combo disc mentioned, you rush in and post the same manifesto on why you hate them. Every thread, same response, it gets old.

agreed.

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post #30 of 89 Old 01-24-2008, 07:30 AM
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They are really handy too if you are going on a trip somewhere as well.

I usually bring a portable DVD player or use my laptop (17") for a movie night in the hotel.

Plus there are lot of people with built in Car DVD players that these would be good for. No reason you need HD on a 7-9" screen

It actually wouldn't be as much of a problem if there were an easy way to rip and convert it to an SD disk... but that is awhile away. (please note that I said easy... I know it is possible now, but it takes a bit of work)

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