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post #1 of 35 Old 02-03-2008, 04:39 PM - Thread Starter
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my wife rented the invasion on sd dvd. watched it upconverted on my hd dvd player and it looks like a top tier hd dvd on my 50" plasma. i spent all this money on players and discs only to find that if studios put forth a concerted effort to make seamless film transitions on to sd discs there would be no need for hd media.
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post #2 of 35 Old 02-03-2008, 04:54 PM
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Don't worry. Drink coffee and you should sober up

PS: Is your plasma Full 1080p?
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post #3 of 35 Old 02-03-2008, 04:55 PM
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Try to watch POTC: At World's End on DVD...



More effort into SD?
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post #4 of 35 Old 02-03-2008, 05:06 PM
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SD has 345,600 pixels. No matter how much care is taken, no matter how high the bit rate, you can't get around that. HD has 2,073,600.

If a top-tier HD DVD doesn't look better than a top SD disc, then there is something wrong with your setup, your eyes or you're just sitting too damn far away.

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post #5 of 35 Old 02-03-2008, 05:10 PM
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Edtv?
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post #6 of 35 Old 02-03-2008, 05:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Newbie View Post

SD has 345,600 pixels. No matter how much care is taken, no matter how high the bit rate, you can't get around that. HD has 2,073,600.

If a top-tier HD DVD doesn't look better than a top SD disc, then there is something wrong with your setup, your eyes or you're just sitting too damn far away.

Most of my SD DVDs have 414,720 pixels.
HD only has 2,073,600 pixels if your display also has that many. Also there may well be less than 720p of actual resolution in the image that makes up those pixels due to the way it was filmed, transferred, filtered and encoded, and then compressed at a high compression rate (oh and then you've got black bars so those pixels don't count as much ).
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post #7 of 35 Old 02-03-2008, 05:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whityfrd View Post

my wife rented the invasion on sd dvd. watched it upconverted on my hd dvd player and it looks like a top tier hd dvd on my 50" plasma. i spent all this money on players and discs only to find that if studios put forth a concerted effort to make seamless film transitions on to sd discs there would be no need for hd media.

Is your plasma 1080p? Are you sitting more than 15 feet away?

It isn't the size of the disk that counts, but how you use it.

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4K cinema at 60mbps, coming soon to a kiosk near you.
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post #8 of 35 Old 02-03-2008, 05:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Damnationdoormat View Post

Try to watch POTC: At World's End on DVD...



More effort into SD?

How about more effort into storyline and plot and then worry about PQ I stopped playback about 2:15 into this 3 hour waste of time.

Glad that this movie was only a $1 redbox rental...not to say that another Pirates movie on BD didn't have many problems (talking torsos)

At no point in your rambling, incoherent post were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this forum is now dumber for having read it.

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post #9 of 35 Old 02-03-2008, 05:25 PM
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lol, this thread is going to end badly
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post #10 of 35 Old 02-03-2008, 05:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Bloggs View Post

Don't worry. Drink coffee and you should sober up

PS: Is your plasma Full 1080p?

Better question is the TV calibrated properly. 720p/1080i/1080p you should be able to see a difference between SD and HD.

Also we don't know how far away the OP was sitting from the screen. If more than 10', and a 720p, it is understandable that you won't be able to see a huge difference. Also, the OP didn't have an HD DVD version to compare it to.

1) Proper Calibration
2) Screen Size
3) Seating Distance
4) Transfer Quality
5) Resolution

That is the order in which I judge the importance of those.

At no point in your rambling, incoherent post were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this forum is now dumber for having read it.

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post #11 of 35 Old 02-03-2008, 05:33 PM
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Well said... precisely why I haven't upgraded from VHS.
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post #12 of 35 Old 02-03-2008, 05:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Bloggs View Post

Most of my SD DVDs have 414,720 pixels..

If a poster doesn't specify where he is, I'm going to assume it's North America, and I'll usually be right.

While all your points are valid, it's pretty damn hard to find a "top tier" HD DVD that doesn't look substantially better than a good SD DVD, even on a 720p display (whatever that is! )

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post #13 of 35 Old 02-03-2008, 06:03 PM
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OP, I tend to agree, most of the time.

Of course it is dependent on a lot of variables, screen size being a very large factor. I see all these guys with 106" displays proclaiming it's a "night & day" difference! Well, of course it is.

I think a high-quality transfer onto SD DVD (think Fifth Element, Cars, Ratatouille, etc.) shown upscaled on a reasonable consumer-sized display, looks pretty darn good in my estimation, and this is coming from someone with a 46" 1080p LCD with a lot of red and a few blu titles.

This may be why these two formats are destined to be a nice niche product (nothing wrong with that) for the high-end market.
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post #14 of 35 Old 02-03-2008, 06:04 PM
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Even if we put the blame on Warner bit starving the titles you should still see a significant difference between HD and SD.

Blu-ray : 340
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post #15 of 35 Old 02-03-2008, 06:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Bloggs View Post

Full 1080p


"The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance  it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel Boorstin
"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter.
" - MLK

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post #16 of 35 Old 02-03-2008, 06:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Newbie View Post

If a poster doesn't specify where he is, I'm going to assume it's North America, and I'll usually be right.

Perhaps you will be right a lot of the time on this board, but there are quite a few non-USA readers of this board too. If I said 'SD DVD has 576 lines' you'd go "what?" . It's easy to stick US or UK before 'SD DVD' when making blanket statements about the capabilities of a DVD format/TV system.
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post #17 of 35 Old 02-03-2008, 06:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Bloggs View Post

Full 1080p

Quote:
Originally Posted by cavu View Post


What?
You mean there aren't many 1080p plasmas?
Or that it won't be 1080p because of black bars taking up hundreds of the lines on some discs (though not on Invasion (2008) if that is 1.85:1?)
Or that 1080p isn't high enough resolution and that you think only at least 4k would be high enough definition?
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post #18 of 35 Old 02-03-2008, 06:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whityfrd View Post

my wife rented the invasion on sd dvd. watched it upconverted on my hd dvd player and it looks like a top tier hd dvd on my 50" plasma. i spent all this money on players and discs only to find that if studios put forth a concerted effort to make seamless film transitions on to sd discs there would be no need for hd media.

I've got the HD combo and the SD is not on par with the HD side.
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post #19 of 35 Old 02-03-2008, 07:06 PM
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Here we go again...

[sarcasm] I'm sure it's got nothing to do with the user's setup or his eyes. [/sarcasm]

LIVE every wednesday 12pm-2pm PST on http://www.discovertrance.com
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post #20 of 35 Old 02-03-2008, 07:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Bloggs View Post

Perhaps you will be right a lot of the time on this board, but there are quite a few non-USA readers of this board too.

Yes, I'm one of them. NTSC is not limited to the USA, and there was no reference to the USA in my post.

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post #21 of 35 Old 02-03-2008, 07:29 PM
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How did you get POTC on HD DVD? Is this an import?
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post #22 of 35 Old 02-03-2008, 07:31 PM
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I have been say that for a while...Good SD upconverted looks very close to HD.
Oh..ya before I get blasted that I have a small non 1080P display.....this is all viewed on a 110" screen with a Calibrated JVC RS1 1080P projector and a Toshiba XA-2 HD-DVD player...there is something to be said for GOOD SD transfers and GOOD upconverting.

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post #23 of 35 Old 02-03-2008, 07:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whityfrd View Post

my wife rented the invasion on sd dvd. watched it upconverted on my hd dvd player and it looks like a top tier hd dvd on my 50" plasma. i spent all this money on players and discs only to find that if studios put forth a concerted effort to make seamless film transitions on to sd discs there would be no need for hd media.

Nah, just something not right in your eyes, I imagine. SD cannot form the detail of HD.

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post #24 of 35 Old 02-03-2008, 08:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Newbie View Post

Yes, I'm one of them. NTSC is not limited to the USA, and there was no reference to the USA in my post.

Exactly - there was no reference to the USA in your post but you said "SD has 345,600 pixels" (I assume you were talking about SD DVDs), when that's not the case outside the USA in places like the UK, France, etc.
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post #25 of 35 Old 02-03-2008, 08:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rayjr View Post

I have been say that for a while...Good SD upconverted looks very close to HD.
Oh..ya before I get blasted that I have a small non 1080P display.....this is all viewed on a 110" screen with a Calibrated JVC RS1 1080P projector and a Toshiba XA-2 HD-DVD player...there is something to be said for GOOD SD transfers and GOOD upconverting.

RayJr




Great point! One of the best SD disc I've seen was Casino Royal, simply amazing...So that means I won't be buying a blueray player for some time

And I have 50" 768p Pdp


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post #26 of 35 Old 02-03-2008, 09:00 PM
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I have extended family members who SWEAR they cannot see ANY difference between my 1080P Blu-ray/HD DVD movies and SD material on my 106" screen. They also say they notice no real difference between broadcast HD and regular non-HD TV.

It's totally baffling to me since there's a HUGE difference and it's not even subtle at all. But they insist they see little difference and they see no need to upgrade their equipment.

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post #27 of 35 Old 02-03-2008, 09:00 PM
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You don't need 1080p to see a difference. Some of the 720p Pioneer and Panasonic plasmas outshine many 1080p LCDs and 1080p plasmas.

The Invasion, IMO was an average looking HD movie. If you thought the SD version looked as good as the top tier HD titles, then you're sitting too far back, your eyes are bad, or your tv is not very good..... or you're outputting HD movies at 480p.

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post #28 of 35 Old 02-03-2008, 09:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kami View Post

Well said... precisely why I haven't upgraded from VHS.

Wha?! Ah....ah..... ah..... ahahahahahahaha. Ok, I could barely breathe there for a sec.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ricwhite View Post

It's totally baffling to me since there's a HUGE difference and it's not even subtle at all. But they insist they see little difference and they see no need to upgrade their equipment.


I think that's the key point right there. It's called excuses to make you feel better about your current situation.
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post #29 of 35 Old 02-03-2008, 10:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Averhoeven View Post

Wha?! Ah....ah..... ah..... ahahahahahahaha. Ok, I could barely breathe there for a sec.


I think that's the key point right there. It's called excuses to make you feel better about your current situation.

Exactly.

It's always amusing to see someone try to argue that SD DVD is just as good as HD, be it HD DVD or blu-ray.

I look at them like ignorant little children and chuckle quietly to myself.

Blu-ray = 775
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post #30 of 35 Old 02-04-2008, 01:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rayjr View Post

I have been say that for a while...Good SD upconverted looks very close to HD.
Oh..ya before I get blasted that I have a small non 1080P display.....this is all viewed on a 110" screen with a Calibrated JVC RS1 1080P projector and a Toshiba XA-2 HD-DVD player...there is something to be said for GOOD SD transfers and GOOD upconverting.

RayJr

If you want to see another good SD disc...pick up the Transformers...I have it in SD & HD-DVD...and over my Oppo980 to my Sony XBR 2 that has been calibrated by UMR...the picture is truly amazing...On normal distanced action shots on the screen...it's difficult tell the difference betweren the 2......only on extreme close ups and in slow mo..can you really see the difference...There the HD-DVD shines like no other...and cannot be matched...by anything..this is a fact of life...and where those big numbers come into their own...How ever...normal action shots with any type of movement...where the camera hasn't zoomed in for a tight close up...which accounts for a lot of most movies..and the picture isn't as highly detailed to the human eye...The brain can only absorb so much visual input...where it can discern fine detail...when an object is in motion...Then...you can have all the detail in the world...and the brain still won't pick it up and it doesn't look any better than some SD...The brain is trying to focus the eyes on something..for spatial reference..so it will actual blur out what isn't being focused on...just like the lens of a camera..So...for those who just chuckle about what has been said...the joke is really on you...but don't worry...I don't think those of us that understand this fact... that many here have over looked...will belittle you or laugh at you because of it..BTW...I have excellent vision...and my distance to the screen is 9'..So I can see a-lot more than many with my choice of seating & equipment...


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