best cd player under $3000? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 156 Old 05-23-2008, 05:50 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Any suggestions as to where to begin looking for 2 channel playback?

Any ID companies to recommend?

At this price point maybe better off getting a CD Transport and DAC?
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post #2 of 156 Old 05-23-2008, 08:34 AM
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Suggest you look at these brands, all highly thought of:

Rega Apollo, Cambridge Audio 740/840, Linn, Arcam are a few.
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post #3 of 156 Old 05-23-2008, 11:49 AM
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sony SCD-XA9000ES
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post #4 of 156 Old 05-23-2008, 12:24 PM
 
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I would say that the first thing to do is eliminate all of the ones between $500-$3000, because there is simply nothing to be gained beyond $500. If I were going to spend $500, I would move up in the Cambridge line from my 340C, but even then I am not sure that it would be possible to hear any difference at all.
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post #5 of 156 Old 05-23-2008, 12:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PULLIAMM View Post

I would say that the first thing to do is eliminate all of the ones between $500-$3000, because there is simply nothing to be gained beyond $500.

*sigh*

More experience prease

Listen to different players. The differences if there will be readily apparent. There are a plethora of units that can coldly deliver data from point A to point B, but if you want something special it's out there. I always feel compelled to mention Audio Research in this discussion. A simple A/B between a Rotel RCD-1072 vs a AR model from a couple years ago was startling. No air around the instruments on the Rotel; harsher (although not negatively so), and numerous other intangibles that really stood out. At the time, the difference was only about $1200, so we aren't discussing megabuck units here.

The First Clarke Law states, 'If an elderly but distinguished scientist says that something is possible he is almost certainly right, but if he says that it is impossible he is very probably wrong.'
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post #6 of 156 Old 05-23-2008, 01:08 PM
 
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Originally Posted by schticker View Post

Listen to different players. The differences if there will be readily apparent.

Yes, if the differences were there, then they would be readily apparent. They are not, however.
You, of course, have no clue about the amount of experience I have had.
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post #7 of 156 Old 05-23-2008, 01:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schticker View Post

*sigh*

More experience prease

There are a plethora of units that can coldly deliver data from point A to point B, but if you want something special it's out there..

What's the difference between 'coldly delivering data from point A to B' vs. 'something special'? Do 'special' players deliver digital data differently?
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post #8 of 156 Old 05-23-2008, 06:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PULLIAMM View Post

Yes, if the differences were there, then they would be readily apparent. They are not, however.

Depends on which units we're discussing. If you have not experienced any differences, then my "experience" comments bears out, since you have not heard enough. Of course, one could assume bold claims like "no difference" are simply troll posts, since it's exceedingly hard to believe you really think that.

Quote:
You, of course, have no clue about the amount of experience I have had.

You write your own posts presumably; all I can do is draw conclusions based on those.

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Originally Posted by deneb View Post

What's the difference between 'coldly delivering data from point A to B' vs. 'something special'? Do 'special' players deliver digital data differently?

They do indeed to the output stage, analog out. To deny differences from some players to the next is to ignore reality based on theory. I will not deny there are more similarities than differences with most players, but there are some that are markedly notable for superior (or at least different) sound.

The First Clarke Law states, 'If an elderly but distinguished scientist says that something is possible he is almost certainly right, but if he says that it is impossible he is very probably wrong.'
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post #9 of 156 Old 05-23-2008, 09:27 PM
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Those who can't discern different CD players $500 and up are either lucky not having to spend more than $500 for a CD player, or in a wrong hobby.

To the OP, you might want to list the rest of your system so people can better understand your requirements. There are a lot of nice units out there, but there is no single best one. Going to separate transport / DAC is more of a preference than a requirement. You can build a musically satisfying system with either approach.
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post #10 of 156 Old 05-23-2008, 09:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deneb View Post

... Do 'special' players deliver digital data differently?

But of course
They may shape the bit stream to give that magic sound, triggers the imagination center in the brain
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post #11 of 156 Old 05-23-2008, 09:46 PM
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Originally Posted by MoltenLava View Post

.
To the OP, you might want to list the rest of your system so people can better understand your requirements. .

Now it depends on what else you have? Most curious indeed. Or, just urban legends run wild as usual.
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post #12 of 156 Old 05-23-2008, 09:49 PM
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That's how you scare newbies away. Saying that a $3K player is better than a $500 player is wrong. Other than better (overkill) construction, there is nothing to be gained. Who wants to keep a cd player for 30 years?
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post #13 of 156 Old 05-24-2008, 10:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kitsum View Post

That's how you scare newbies away. Saying that a $3K player is better than a $500 player is wrong. Other than better (overkill) construction, there is nothing to be gained. Who wants to keep a cd player for 30 years?

Personally, I said they can sound better, but of course that's not a guarantee.

To say that "there is no difference" is clearly a head-in-the-sand approach designed to convince oneself that more expense is not required. That level of ignorance must be intentional among otherwise intelligent people.

The First Clarke Law states, 'If an elderly but distinguished scientist says that something is possible he is almost certainly right, but if he says that it is impossible he is very probably wrong.'
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post #14 of 156 Old 05-24-2008, 04:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schticker View Post

Personally, I said they can sound better, but of course that's not a guarantee.

To say that "there is no difference" is clearly a head-in-the-sand approach designed to convince oneself that more expense is not required. That level of ignorance must be intentional among otherwise intelligent people.

If there's no guarantee... then why spend the money unnecessarily?

Ignorance is paying more for nothing only because it's higher priced and assuming it's "better".
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post #15 of 156 Old 05-24-2008, 06:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PULLIAMM View Post

Yes, if the differences were there, then they would be readily apparent. They are not, however.
You, of course, have no clue about the amount of experience I have had.

Must you always troll.. CD players don't all sound the same, due to different DAC's, vaccum tubes, etc.. If you believe a 25.00 CDP (since they are basically the same) is just as a good as a 3,000 player be my guest.. I preferred my A2 Toshiba HD player over my Sony 595's for CD playback. It sounded better to me.. & I bought my Sony 595 expecting it to sound better.. So no placebo effect..

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post #16 of 156 Old 05-24-2008, 08:05 PM
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Calling someone a troll because he claims experience, does not help the OP. We are not talking about $25 players here. Besides, everybody knows that CD players and vacuum tubes don't match.
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post #17 of 156 Old 05-24-2008, 09:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KBI View Post

Must you always troll.. CD players don't all sound the same, due to different DAC's, vaccum tubes, etc.. If you believe a 25.00 CDP (since they are basically the same) is just as a good as a 3,000 player be my guest.. I preferred my A2 Toshiba HD player over my Sony 595's for CD playback. It sounded better to me.. & I bought my Sony 595 expecting it to sound better.. So no placebo effect..

No placebo effect? How did you turn that off? Certainly not by your initial expectations, no way. You see, bias has no on/off switch, period, end of story.
So, unless you did a true level matched DBT with a statistically significant outcome your perceptions are unreliable in this case for small differences, period, another story ending. Sorry to disappoint.
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post #18 of 156 Old 05-27-2008, 06:32 AM
 
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Originally Posted by schticker View Post

You write your own posts presumably; all I can do is draw conclusions based on those.

Consistently incorrect conclusions.
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post #19 of 156 Old 05-27-2008, 06:33 AM
 
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Must you always troll..

Nope. Never have, never will.
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post #20 of 156 Old 05-27-2008, 08:12 AM
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Originally Posted by CharlesJ View Post

Now it depends on what else you have? Most curious indeed. Or, just urban legends run wild as usual.

Let me guess...your an engineer.
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post #21 of 156 Old 05-27-2008, 08:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ratman View Post

If there's no guarantee... then why spend the money unnecessarily?

Ignorance is paying more for nothing only because it's higher priced and assuming it's "better".

I would hope that people who decide to pay more, do so because they have gone out and listened to a number of players and have selected one that sounds better to them...Rather than listened to the clever people of this board who insist that everything sounds the same.
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post #22 of 156 Old 05-27-2008, 08:22 AM
 
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Originally Posted by CharlesJ View Post

Now it depends on what else you have? Most curious indeed. Or, just urban legends run wild as usual.

No, it doesn't. A good CD player is a good CD player regardless of the rest of your system. (Of course, you will enjoy it more with a better system.)
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post #23 of 156 Old 05-27-2008, 08:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gooomz View Post

Any suggestions as to where to begin looking for 2 channel playback?

Any ID companies to recommend?

At this price point maybe better off getting a CD Transport and DAC?

I generally prefer one-box solutions. Some I would check out are the Ayre CX-7e, The Rega Saturn & Apollo, the Linn Majik, Audio Note 2.1x, Consonance Cd-120 Linear and to balance it off the Cambridge Audio Line (try the top and bottom player) and the Oppo. If you don't hear a difference, buy the cheapest one--if you do buy the one that moves you the most.
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post #24 of 156 Old 05-27-2008, 08:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PULLIAMM View Post

No, it doesn't. A good CD player is a good CD player regardless of the rest of your system. (Of course, you will enjoy it more with a better system.)

I agree that a good CD player is a good CD player, but system matching does play a role--especially if you have a system that skews towards being "bright".
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post #25 of 156 Old 05-27-2008, 08:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ratman View Post

If there's no guarantee... then why spend the money unnecessarily?

Ignorance is paying more for nothing only because it's higher priced and assuming it's "better".

That's what *gasp* actual auditioning is for. Why would I recommend buying anything sight unseen?

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Originally Posted by CharlesJ View Post

No placebo effect? How did you turn that off? Certainly not by your initial expectations, no way. You see, bias has no on/off switch, period, end of story.

Staunch defense of your expensive education, I understand. However, reality is that if you expect (and want) and new, more-expensive player to sound better and it does not, that is significant. You may not be technically "turning off" placebo, but if your perception is that a less-expensive player is "better" then I suppose there's no harm done.

Quote:


So, unless you did a true level matched DBT with a statistically significant outcome your perceptions are unreliable in this case for small differences, period, another story ending. Sorry to disappoint.

Engineers like you always disappoint when posting on threads like this, mainly because the rest of us expect you to wake up at some point.

You don't need a DBT in all cases. Only when the differences don't pass the "obviousness test" does that become useful. Some players exhibit such differences that additional gamesmanship is not required.

The First Clarke Law states, 'If an elderly but distinguished scientist says that something is possible he is almost certainly right, but if he says that it is impossible he is very probably wrong.'
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post #26 of 156 Old 05-27-2008, 10:50 AM
 
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Originally Posted by deneb View Post

What's the difference between 'coldly delivering data from point A to B' vs. 'something special'? Do 'special' players deliver digital data differently?

Players don't deliver data anywhere. That's why they're players.

Transports deliver data, and therein you have a very strong argument for there being no difference at all, with regard to transports. But this thread isn't about transports is it? In case you can't figure that out, the answer is: No, it is not; the thread is about cd players

But players absolutely do differ, measurably and objectively in their quality. That's because PLAYERS, as oppsoed to cd transports or players used as transports via their digital output, have to output an analog waveform. That requires a DAC. DACs perform differently, measurably. The analog output stages are different. That's why CD players do measure differently, and why if those differences are significant enough, they also can become audible.

Suggesting otherwise is ignorance. And that's objective.
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post #27 of 156 Old 05-27-2008, 11:16 AM
 
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Originally Posted by ChrisWiggles View Post

That's why CD players do measure differently, and why if those differences are significant enough, they also can become audible.

There may be a small grain of truth in that. It is also true, however, that there is a level beyond which no further improvements are audible. That level is reached below $500, and thus far, far below $3000.
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post #28 of 156 Old 05-27-2008, 11:57 AM
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Pulliamm,
A couple of years ago you used to tout your $200 Onkyo C390 changer as the best player money could buy, since the sonics of any player higher up the line could not be audibly distinguised.

After you bought your Cambride Audio 340, you've upped your "threshold of audibilty differences" to $500

I suspect that if you ever take home an CA 740, you will once again up your threshold, this time to $1000

C N Machani
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post #29 of 156 Old 05-27-2008, 12:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gooomz View Post

Any suggestions as to where to begin looking for 2 channel playback?

Any ID companies to recommend?

At this price point maybe better off getting a CD Transport and DAC?

I don't own one, but I have been hearing universally good things about the TADAC. It is said to leave the Benchmark DAC-1 in the dust. There is 21 day home trial with $45 restock so it should be relatively painless to try.

C N Machani
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post #30 of 156 Old 05-27-2008, 12:14 PM
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Auditioning cd players? That'a a funny one. The only test i do is skipping speed, and error correction abilities. A test scratch cd shows huge differences between players.
Do you know that cd players have optical-coaxial output? Using the player's analog outputs is so '90's.
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