Do High end Interconnects make a diffrence? - Page 7 - AVS Forum
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post #181 of 243 Old 02-23-2009, 11:37 AM
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Originally Posted by geekhd View Post

Your insult claim was made (Today 04:03 PM) before Bruins29 posted his reply (Today 04:04 PM) containing those words. What are you trying to pull?

What am I trying to pull??? I'm clairvoyant, what do you think? It's a time-zone issue, obviously, since it's not yet 4pm anywhere in the USA!

I think this is a great example of how you should not always trust what's written, whether it came from a DBT or not.
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post #182 of 243 Old 02-23-2009, 11:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Bruins29 View Post

Why is it that the new thing with AVS is for new posters to come on here and either completely criticize the board or defend those who seem to need so much defense. Its a daily thing now.

Because it is infuriating how you DBT'ers treat people.

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If you are on this site and there are people coming to defend you who have zero credibility here then perhaps you dont belong on the site (spreading nonsense) in the first place?

Don't belong here? It's a public site, last I checked.
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post #183 of 243 Old 02-23-2009, 11:42 AM
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And, yes, calling people naive, gullible, and shills is insulting.

lol, people are too sensitive....if you are gullible or naive then how can it be an insult. The truth may hurt but its still the truth.

I WILL post that someone is ignorant towards science if they think all this snake oil stuff has any truth to it. That is not an insult that is WHAT SHOULD BE DONE online and in the world. The TURTH matters more then someone's fragile feelings.


its funny that we always get NEW members with silly "TrustYourEars" coming on here to set someone straight. Obviously, your handle should be "TrustPlaceboEffects" instead because anyone that simply trusts their ears alone is being a fool about to part with their money

Btw, people can buy any silly thing they want. NOW if someone is posting on THIS SITE about audio snake-oil stuff and tries to post their subjective opinion as fact without a shred of sceintific evidence they will simply get labelled as ignorant to all the scientific facts that are against such opinion.

Suggestion, enjoy your system instead of trying to convince yourself online that you didnt waste more money then you needed to

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post #184 of 243 Old 02-23-2009, 11:43 AM
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Originally Posted by trustyourears View Post

Because it is infuriating how you DBT'ers treat people.



Don't belong here? It's a public site, last I checked.

I may think a DBT is the only way to do a test but where have I personally mistreated someone who was not already treating the board like his personal sounding board and being disrespectful. Wasn't it you who quoted the rules here?

So because its a public site posters like directtvfreak should be allowed to post here?
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post #185 of 243 Old 02-23-2009, 11:46 AM
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Also, is being a DBTer now a bad thing? Its like "Those bad DBTers, the nerve of them trying to find some truth and use some science to get to the bottom of something"

?????
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post #186 of 243 Old 02-23-2009, 11:47 AM
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Because it is infuriating how you DBT'ers treat people.

and its extremely annoying how obtuse the subjective types like you IGNORE the science but think your opinion has ANY weight in a AV science site....extremely annoying indeed. Go to audio asylum and enjoy your little world there.

Like it or not, Science will always be a part of this site as long as many of us are "neighborhood watchdogs" on the site


Someone posted that "Most people believe expensive cables are better", The world believes in many things just look at religion, heck 99.999% of the population once believed the world was flat for how long??

Its obvious and easy to believe that the world is 99% full of ignorance.....btw, ignorance is not an insult either, 99% of the world CHOOSES not to care one bit about audio therefore they get bits and pieces and most of that is marketing BS. Meaning the 99% of the population believes BOSE is a high quality audio system!

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post #187 of 243 Old 02-23-2009, 11:48 AM
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Also, is being a DBTer now a bad thing?

I would rather be a DBTer then an ignorant audiophile. Atleast I know HOW my system truely works and therefore my $$$ travel so much further

It is not "open-minded" to reject knowledge - Bob Lee
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post #188 of 243 Old 02-23-2009, 11:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Bruins29 View Post

where have I personally mistreated someone

Here ya go...

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Unfortunately, your life experiences really dont help anything. It would be the same as me going on to some pottery forum and telling the posters there that I was sure of certain thngs because of my life experiences and the fact I made a few clay mugs in high school.

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Opionions are pretty much worthless here...


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And then you have a guy like dukenukem who comes here and tells everyone that because him and his one friend did a cable comparison 20 years ago in his moms basement...

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post #189 of 243 Old 02-23-2009, 11:55 AM
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Here ya go...


hehe, Bruins29...you sure did insult him with all that slander...wow!

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post #190 of 243 Old 02-23-2009, 12:01 PM
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Yep, and like I said in my reply those who act 12 years old get treated as such. That should not change here. I will mistreat those who mistreat the site. As they have the right to do so, I hve mine as well.

BTW, are you this guys lawyer? Or are you him and jsut decided to change screen names? Seems pretty convenient that he left the site (pretty mad) and you just magicly pop up in the same thread with the same views defending him. Hmmmmmm

This is a community after all and if you want to be a respected member of it its probably best to show some respect first.
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post #191 of 243 Old 02-23-2009, 12:02 PM
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hehe, Bruins29...you sure did insult him with all that slander...wow!

I didn't say slander, but it is surely insulting and demeaning to characterize someone's life experience and opinions as coming from their mom's basement 20 years ago. The point is, it drives away people who don't agree with you, and chills the discussion.
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post #192 of 243 Old 02-23-2009, 12:05 PM
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I would rather be a DBTer then an ignorant audiophile. Atleast I know HOW my system truely works and therefore my $$$ travel so much further

Ahh yes, now we're getting down to the crux of the matter, aren't we? Tsk,tsk on all those darn ignorant audiophiles. Listening to music, spending money on components, oh the horror!
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post #193 of 243 Old 02-23-2009, 12:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Bruins29 View Post

Hmmmmmm

Hmmmmmm indeed...

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Originally Posted by Bruins29 View Post

This is a community after all and if you want to be a respected member of it its probably best to show some respect first.

I respect a lot of what I see here, but you should respect that not everyone bases their lives on DBT's.
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post #194 of 243 Old 02-23-2009, 12:06 PM
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I didn't say slander, but it is surely insulting and demeaning to characterize someone's life experience and opinions as coming from their mom's basement 20 years ago. The point is, it drives away people who don't agree with you, and chills the discussion.

life experiences and mom's basements have zero to do with the scientific fact of audio and I think that is the true point here!

If we ask for science to back up opinion and people can not produce than MAYBE that should be the end of the discussion, shouldn't it?

Bruin's simply pointed out that those observations are completely subjective and 100% meaningless. If you want to debate the subjective, bring some facts to the table....something that does not include your ears, ANYONE's experience in a non-control/non-scientific enviroment means NOTHING wrt the debate. Its that simple.

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post #195 of 243 Old 02-23-2009, 12:07 PM
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You know what, I made the comment as a figure of speech in a way to use exaggaration as way to get my point across. The point was simpily that his test was done years ago and he couldnt remember the details. So, I was using my scenario as a possbile hypothetical. Besides he had already done a few things not so wonderful by that point but I doubt you will mention those.

Were you planning on answering my question bout directtvfreak? Are you that same guy as nukequasar?
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post #196 of 243 Old 02-23-2009, 12:08 PM
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I respect a lot of what I see here, but you should respect that not everyone bases their lives on DBT's.

None of us do actually but many of us know the DBTs tell us that our ears are controlled by our brains and our brains make decisions based on environmental parameters more then using the true frequency response.

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post #197 of 243 Old 02-23-2009, 12:10 PM
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Ahh yes, now we're getting down to the crux of the matter, aren't we? Tsk,tsk on all those darn ignorant audiophiles. Listening to music, spending money on components, oh the horror!

Nothing against people wanting to spend money on anything. Im against any post that goes against physics and science in general and I will defend sceince because we nee to TEACH people the truth.

Two completely separate issues but
I silently mock those who waste money on weird things

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post #198 of 243 Old 02-23-2009, 12:12 PM
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Originally Posted by penngray View Post

life experiences and mom's basements have zero to do with the scientific fact of audio and I think that is the true point here!

If we ask for science to back up opinion and people can not produce than MAYBE that should be the end of the discussion, shouldn't it?

Bruin's simply pointed out that those observations are completely subjective and 100% meaningless. If you want to debate the subjective, bring some facts to the table....your ears, ANYONE's experience in a non-control/non-scientific enviroment means NOTHING wrt the debate. Its that simple.

You're not right here. Subjective does not equal meaningless. If you've ever gone to a hospital in pain they asked you to rank your pain on a scale from 1 to 10. It is completely subjective, but critically important in assessing a patient's situation. Subjective opinions are very important. We are humans listening to music, not test equipment listening to pink noise.
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post #199 of 243 Old 02-23-2009, 12:12 PM
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Originally Posted by trustyourears View Post

Hmmmmmm indeed...



I respect a lot of what I see here, but you should respect that not everyone bases their lives on DBT's.

I should this, I should that. I "should" a lot of things....It goes for everyone. I am not as hard core a DBT guy as you think BTW.

Let me ask you this. Do you think that the DBT group is more credible than the non DBT group (on an issue like this) regardless of behavior/attitude that you do not agree with?
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post #200 of 243 Old 02-23-2009, 12:17 PM
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You're not right here. Subjective does not equal meaningless. If you've ever gone to a hospital in pain they asked you to rank your pain on a scale from 1 to 10. It is completely subjective, but critically important in assessing a patient's situation. Subjective opinions are very important. We are humans listening to music, not test equipment listening to pink noise.

You are missing the point....research everything about "Placebo" effects and you will realize why we have a position that DBTs are valid and DO HELP people understand audio sound better.

Its pretty simple, what people hear in a non-controlled environment is not truely 100% accurate sound. Our brains TELL us what we want to hear....do you not understand that simple premise??

The only way to know if you are hearing something accurately is to remove ALL BIAS!!!

Subjective opinions are a WASTE of time in my world!! Your room, your equipment, your setup has zero to do with my room, my equipment, my ears. Heck, you could post some subjective BS about too much bass in an amp only to realize its because you have a Sub close to a corner and it was not your amp.

Subjective opinion truely helps NO ONE.

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post #201 of 243 Old 02-23-2009, 12:18 PM
 
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What am I trying to pull??? I'm clairvoyant, what do you think? It's a time-zone issue, obviously, since it's not yet 4pm anywhere in the USA!

I think this is a great example of how you should not always trust what's written, whether it came from a DBT or not.

Claim made out of thin air, you sure will get a lot of respect that way.
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post #202 of 243 Old 02-23-2009, 12:19 PM
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I should this, I should that. I "should" a lot of things....It goes for everyone. I am not as hard core a DBT guy as you think BTW.

I believe it, after reading some of your other posts.

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Let me ask you this. Do you think that the DBT group is more credible than the non DBT group (on an issue like this) regardless of behavior/attitude that you do not agree with?

I'm just saying that opinion and experience counts for something also, and that you're not going to get people to look at your evidence by putting them down. Look, all I was trying to say this morning is that we should back down the insults and nastiness; it just doesn't help anything...
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post #203 of 243 Old 02-23-2009, 12:21 PM
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Nothing against people wanting to spend money on anything. Im against any post that goes against physics and science in general and I will defend sceince because we nee to TEACH people the truth.

Two completely separate issues but
I silently mock those who waste money on weird things

Oh..... Is it the truth as you see it? Or proclaim it? Or interpret it? Or teach it?

In particular, what audio "truths" is it that science and physics have perfected, to the point that they cannot be questioned or open to interpretation or discussion by anybody ever for any reason?
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post #204 of 243 Old 02-23-2009, 12:24 PM
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Trustyourears, Agreed 100% about insults and I told you I was right about the DBT thing and not being so hard core on it to the point of obsessive.

I am also 100% certain that you are indeed Nukequasar and you came back with another screenname to try to at least save some face and/or get some revenge as you left here pretty hot. Can we just have you admit that so we can move on or shall we continue the charade a little longer?
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post #205 of 243 Old 02-23-2009, 12:25 PM
 
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Look, all I was trying to say this morning is that we should back down the insults and nastiness; it just doesn't help anything...

What made you think there were insults earlier today?
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post #206 of 243 Old 02-23-2009, 12:25 PM
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Oh..... Is it the truth as you see it? Or proclaim it? Or interpret it? Or teach it?

In particular, what audio "truths" is it that science and physics have perfected, to the point that they cannot be questioned or open to interpretation or discussion by anybody ever for any reason?

Everything can be questioned but you can not use "Your hearing" in an un-controlled enviroment as the tool for questioning. This is the crux of the debate and I have yet to read any acknowledgement from all the subjectionist fans out there that their ears do lie to them.

I can only assume you do believe in what your hear period, right?

You do not believe in physics and the simple science that has been around for 20+ years already in terms of resistance/capacitance, etc and how it effects audible sound.

It is not "open-minded" to reject knowledge - Bob Lee
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post #207 of 243 Old 02-23-2009, 12:32 PM
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Having never delved into high end interconnects, I feel qualified to post in this thread

Years ago during the bi-wire craze, I decided to build custom speaker cables. I happened upon a good deal on Belden 1310A 14/4 wire. I removed the outer jacket to separate each wire and spun two each of the 14 gauge wires into an individual cable, giving me 4 total cables (8 wires total) for each speaker. I then spun two of the these cables together giving me 2 cables for each speaker. I then put a pretty cover over the cable and secured the end with quality plugs, heat shrink, etc. I made sure that each cable was exactly the same length.

My gear was not the highest quality (Paradigm Studio 60's and Denon 4802 at that time).

I replaced my 12g zip cord with my works of art. I am truly blessed. I could not here any difference. There may have been a difference but my ears could not tell. I did not attempt to do any AB tests because A) I did not have the equipment to do real time switching and B) I really did not care.

Maybe I used the wrong wire or did not twist them correctly? Maybe cable bridges would have helped?

I thank God that I do not have the ability to hear such changes in SQ (if they do in fact exist)!

It was a fun project but pretty much a waste of time and money.

Sorry to interrupt!
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post #208 of 243 Old 02-23-2009, 12:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Bruins29 View Post

I am also 100% certain that you are indeed Nukequasar and you came back with another screenname to try to at least save some face and/or get some revenge as you left here pretty hot. Can we just have you admit that so we can move on or shall we continue the charade a little longer?

My screenname was banned, so I came back and tried to be more reasonable and productive.
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post #209 of 243 Old 02-23-2009, 12:35 PM
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It was a fun project but pretty much a waste of time and money.

Maybe you can sell them on ebay...
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post #210 of 243 Old 02-23-2009, 12:38 PM
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In case my important question was missed.

here it is for any subjectionist to answer.

I can only assume you do believe in what your hear period, right?

Is it hard to answer?

It is not "open-minded" to reject knowledge - Bob Lee
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