to buy or not to buy? That is the question! - Page 6 - AVS Forum
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post #151 of 162 Old 04-05-2009, 03:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruins29 View Post

Who are "these guys?" I think geekhd asked a really important question. Perhaps the answers would be good for the hobby. Instead I see you always attacking anyone who encourages posters to learn how to do tests correctly before making claims. Isn't that the whole point of the forum? Yeah, some people can be sarcastic and smug but I dont see anyone here personally attacking this poster and he WAS so sure that his "by ear" test was a legit comparison.

You come here and make a claim be ready to back it with something more than "because I said so" especially when its obvious you do not know what you are talking about.

Again, God forbid we try to apply some science to the AV world.

In theory, all of you guys are correct. Tests must be "scientific".
But in real life, "by ear", it's easy and simple "see" which is better than another one. It's not necessary precise measurements for this match, I presume, once a transport + dedicate dac should be better than internal receivers and DVD players dacs. And did it.
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post #152 of 162 Old 04-05-2009, 04:46 PM
 
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Originally Posted by galvs View Post

In theory, all of you guys are correct. Tests must be "scientific".
But in real life, "by ear", it's easy and simple "see" which is better than another one. It's not necessary precise measurements for this match, I presume, once a transport + dedicate dac should be better than internal receivers and DVD players dacs. And did it.

You can enjoy what you bought but when you post claims on the forum, at least have something more than just anecdotal experience to back it up.

Plus, be careful about making authoritative statements here. There are real engineers reading this thread.
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irrelevant.
the difference is detail, stage, clearness.

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post #153 of 162 Old 04-05-2009, 05:00 PM
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In the case I said irrelevant!
But you're right.
I was wrong.
Satisfied?

If you are a real engineer, a simple and clear post would be enought to explain the point.
You are neither a teacher, too.

Soo bad, what you are?
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post #154 of 162 Old 04-05-2009, 05:07 PM
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Quote:


In theory, all of you guys are correct. Tests must be "scientific".
But in real life, "by ear", it's easy and simple "see" which is better than another one.

What makes it easy is lack of familiarity with the science behind it. Once you know the science, you realize that it's not so easy. That's the point that several people are trying to make here.

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It's not necessary precise measurements for this match, I presume, once a transport + dedicate dac should be better than internal receivers and DVD players dacs. And did it.

You expected it to sound better, and it did. But did it only sound better because you expected it to? Or did it only sound better because the levels weren't matched precisely? Because of the way you did the comparison, you don't really know. Science is harder, but it gives you more reliable answers.

If you can't explain how it works, you can't say it doesn't.—The High-End Creed

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post #155 of 162 Old 04-05-2009, 05:24 PM
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Originally Posted by mcnarus View Post

What makes it easy is lack of familiarity with the science behind it. Once you know the science, you realize that it's not so easy. That's the point that several people are trying to make here.


You expected it to sound better, and it did. But did it only sound better because you expected it to? Or did it only sound better because the levels weren't matched precisely? Because of the way you did the comparison, you don't really know. Science is harder, but it gives you more reliable answers.

You got the point.
Always precise measurements should be the final arguments.
My "mistake" was think that you guys stand out my simple question from science severity...
Thank you.
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post #156 of 162 Old 04-05-2009, 05:29 PM
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Agree!

You must be new here.

If you can't explain how it works, you can't say it doesn't.—The High-End Creed

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post #157 of 162 Old 04-05-2009, 05:46 PM
 
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galvs, did you read this thread from the beginning? If not, you should.
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post #158 of 162 Old 04-05-2009, 07:58 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by prepress View Post

Hello kate*,

I just found this thread. Another way to look at the question is which player is a better CD player, irrespective of SACD capability. There are many more CDs out there than SACDs, but you say you have close to as many of them as CDs. If they're hybrids, then no worries, either player will work. If not, and you want to hear them, then the 8003 would be the choice.

I personally have only 4 SACDs (hybrids), and I just bought a McIntosh MCD301, which is a CD/SACD player. But I bought it because it's a tremendous CD player, the best I've heard, and that it plays SACDs too is nice but not a major factor in the decision.

Hi Prepress!

Hey! If I had the means to buy a McIntosh MCD, I would not be debating which is better, I would just get the player and be happy!

I have a couple SACD, around 30s... Usually I try to buy SACDs when it is available when most of the times I just get the simple CD...

I agree with you.. SACD might be an add on.. but I was debating between the RCD and the SA-7003, because the price was close, and I could buy either one, but not both!

Thanks...

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Originally Posted by galvs View Post

Well Kate, just arrived my new Cambridge DacMagic, and I can tell you that the sound is amazing...testing only against the Oppo alone (is a reasonable player), and the difference was huge.

Just my two cents.

Hi Galvs,

Yes the DacMagic should be good.. But I decided to go to a different route.. I got a HTPC, very cute, windows media center is pretty easy to use, its like having a computer with a big screen!

I am currently using the 2930ci as SACD/DVD player, and all my CDs are ripped to the Media Center, great features..

Thank you!

PS: Its good to see you are back, and as you can see I cancelled my I.D. at Htforum.


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Originally Posted by galvs View Post

voltage is 120 - 125 V, stable, dedicated phases to AVR / TV set / amplifier

Late answer but...

I guess they want to match the output line of the player, not the voltage itself...

What they is the player to send the same "volume" to the receiver so it is easier to compare.. Like... sometimes the cd player can play louder than the other, giving an impression that it is better, but it might be the same, its just the output level that is higher.




Listening is the best experience.
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post #159 of 162 Old 04-06-2009, 03:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kate* View Post

Hi Prepress!

Hey! If I had the means to buy a McIntosh MCD, I would not be debating which is better, I would just get the player and be happy!

I have a couple SACD, around 30s... Usually I try to buy SACDs when it is available when most of the times I just get the simple CD...

I agree with you.. SACD might be an add on.. but I was debating between the RCD and the SA-7003, because the price was close, and I could buy either one, but not both!

Thanks...


I think I misunderstood. I was thinking of the SA-8003, which is Marantz' latest non-reference SACD/CD player. I thought you meant the 8003 in your original post and responded on that basis. I'm not familiar with the 7003, though perhaps the 8003 is its replacement. My apologies.

As for the McIntosh, it should arrive today. I'll have to budget carefully for a couple of months or more having purchased it, but that'll be easier to do when I listen to music on it.


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post #160 of 162 Old 04-06-2009, 04:55 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by prepress View Post

I think I misunderstood. I was thinking of the SA-8003, which is Marantz' latest non-reference SACD/CD player. I thought you meant the 8003 in your original post and responded on that basis. I'm not familiar with the 7003, though perhaps the 8003 is its replacement. My apologies.

As for the McIntosh, it should arrive today. I'll have to budget carefully for a couple of months or more having purchased it, but that'll be easier to do when I listen to music on it.

Actually no.. the 7003 and 8003 are different.. However from what I get the 7003 is only available in europe...

You are lucky enough to be able to buy the MCD that is more like a dream cd player to me, so far from reality (at least for me)....

I given up on the 7003 or any other SACD, I will stick with my Denon and be happy with my HTPC!


Listening is the best experience.
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post #161 of 162 Old 04-07-2009, 01:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by galvs View Post

Understood...
I don't not have any tools to precisely match volume levels, so is "by ear".

Old saying - "Match levels by ear, hear differences by ear".

Note that very few good carpenters cut wood without measuring very carefully. Old Russian saying - "measure twice, cut once". ;-)

Meters that are good for level matching aren't expensive. I found one at Lowes for under $35 that would work fine.

Just create or obtain a CD with a 1 KHz tone on it, and set levels and balance while plaing the CD, so that the voltages at the speaker's terminals are the same within 1%.
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post #162 of 162 Old 04-08-2009, 02:59 PM
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... Old Russian saying - "measure twice, cut once". ;-)

...

Oh, those clever Russians
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