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post #91 of 423 Old 03-19-2009, 10:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erik Tracy View Post

I did equalize the levels and I did the comparison for myself.

Please do not presume to tell me what I hear or do not hear.

Don't bother, he's a one trick pony and lacks social grace.
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post #92 of 423 Old 03-19-2009, 10:36 AM
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Originally Posted by arnyk View Post


You're not nuts, you are just rather poorly educated about logic and science.


"To a sufficiently backward people, modern science seems the same to them as magic."

Wow.

That being said, I do admit I admire your ability to show your insecurities, even though it is not conscience.

What you got back home, little sister, to play your fuzzy warbles on? I bet you got little save pitiful, portable picnic players. Come with uncle and hear all proper! Hear angel trumpets and devil trombones. You are invited.
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post #93 of 423 Old 03-19-2009, 10:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Chu Gai View Post

Must've been a bitch making two atomic clocks - keeping one on the ground while the other one flew in a jet to test the theory of relativity - seeing as all those atoms didn't add up!

Yup, how about having two rulers in your house - each made out of different atoms. You measure with one and it says 10 inches, measure the same thing with the other and it says 11 inches.

Does his bank give you different change depending on which $20 bill you turn in? ;-)

No, his logic is so glib but bad I'm wondering what sort of thing he sells for a living. I'm guessing maybe used cars?
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post #94 of 423 Old 03-19-2009, 10:45 AM
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[quote=lvtdude;16072158]


Does anyone here really believe that mcnarus was only responding to the original post?

[quote]


Of course not. I pop in every couple of weeks to see what's new and he's consistantly spouting off the same party line. Frankly, I'm amazed he's not tired of it by now so I assume it's the highlight each day for him. It feels a bit like we are all infidels in his own Holy War.
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post #95 of 423 Old 03-19-2009, 10:55 AM
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Originally Posted by eljr View Post

Wow.

That being said, I do admit I admire your ability to show your insecurities, even though it is not conscience.

I know you probaly know this, but in case you don't--http://www.stereophile.com/news/050905debate/

Just so you know you are beating your head against a brick wall...
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post #96 of 423 Old 03-19-2009, 11:04 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisWiggles View Post

If you use digital out of the DVD player, you're using the receiver's DACs in which case I say no difference.

If you're using analog outs, then yes there may be a difference of minimal significance, depending on just how resolving your system is. People who think there are no differences between CD players (not transports, PLAYERS) have no experience to know what they're talking about.

Hi Chris,

I don't agree with your first point; there are differences even from the digital outputs of two CD or two DVD players.

As for your second point, I do agree with you.

Cheers,

_______
Bob
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post #97 of 423 Old 03-19-2009, 11:13 AM
 
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Originally Posted by ccotenj View Post

actually, it may be debated, but for those who choose to accept science, it's not really open to debate.

What are you talking about?

We try to give an objective and proven technical, scientific demonstration here.
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post #98 of 423 Old 03-19-2009, 11:42 AM
 
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Only one aspect of sound from the various quantum of sound energy:

Pure sine waves of constant amplitude rarely occur in nature. Since they didn't help our ancestors escape being eaten, we are not equipped to detect their source with the passive sonar equipment we have on each side of our heads.
As a matter of fact, constant amplitude sine waves at any frequency are harder to detect the source of than other types of sound.
We do not have the ability to detect the directionality of low-frequency sounds.
I did in fact try this with only my subs on my crossover set to 80Hz, 24dB per octave.
While I listen to cut four of the 1989 re-mastered CD of King Crimson, "In The Wake Of The Poseidon", I clearly heard the bass drum coming from the left side of the soundstage part of the way in toward the center, with the bass guitar immediately next to it. This placement was then confirmed with the complete system on. There are undoubtedly many other pieces of software out there in which the placement of a particular low-frequency instrument in the soundstage is not heard correctly with that sub stuck in the corner away from the rest of the system.
While I am on the subject of subwoofer placement, the human ear can also detect the incorrect placement of subwoofers too far to the rear of the main speakers. This sounds just like the delay that it is.

Cheers,

__________
Bob (LOTR)
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post #99 of 423 Old 03-19-2009, 11:42 AM
 
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"The pack has arrived."
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post #100 of 423 Old 03-19-2009, 12:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lordoftherings View Post

...
Well, well, well... Your attacks and discredits won't shake not even a single leaf from my tree.

....

So, that is a closed mind then? No further discussion is needed for you? Evidence matters not for you? Certainly looks like that is the case.
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post #101 of 423 Old 03-19-2009, 01:16 PM
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Originally Posted by geekhd View Post

"The pack has arrived."

LMAO!!!!!

Come on, be honest. Who is the pack?

LMAO!!!!

You people kill me.

What you got back home, little sister, to play your fuzzy warbles on? I bet you got little save pitiful, portable picnic players. Come with uncle and hear all proper! Hear angel trumpets and devil trombones. You are invited.
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post #102 of 423 Old 03-19-2009, 02:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eljr View Post

Wow.

That being said, I do admit I admire your ability to show your insecurities, even though it is not conscience.

El, I find it interesting that when I mention poorly-informed people, you respond like I was calling hogs to dinner. ;-)
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post #103 of 423 Old 03-19-2009, 02:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by badgerdms View Post

I know you probaly know this, but in case you don't--http://www.stereophile.com/news/050905debate/

Just so you know you are beating your head against a brick wall...

It is not a brick wall, it is about knowing a little science.

You should try it some time.

;-)
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post #104 of 423 Old 03-19-2009, 04:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Ysay View Post

What sad about all this argument is that majority of the CDs these days are mixed to sound good on a car stereo or when ripped to an iPod.


We live in a society exquisitely dependent on science and technology, in which hardly anyone knows anything about science and technology.
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post #105 of 423 Old 03-19-2009, 04:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lordoftherings View Post

Excuse me. But no CD players sound the same, samething for amps. There is not a single component with all the exact same parts with the same specs, and with the same rooms, the same circumstances and the same speakers on the planet. So, it is fair to assume that each CD player sound different, same for amps.

So that's why the two MRI scanners in my lab produce different results in the same subject.

We live in a society exquisitely dependent on science and technology, in which hardly anyone knows anything about science and technology.
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post #106 of 423 Old 03-19-2009, 05:23 PM
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Originally Posted by milaz001 View Post


Either my stock audio system on my Ford truck is darn good or my home stereo is POS.
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post #107 of 423 Old 03-19-2009, 05:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lordoftherings View Post

What are you talking about?

We try to give an objective and proven technical, scientific demonstration here.

yes, "we" do... unfortunately, "you" aren't...

as someone else pointed out, "we've" been through this many times before... since you are relatively new here, it's possible that you've missed the threads that point out the multitudes of studies, etc.

- chris

 

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post #108 of 423 Old 03-19-2009, 09:04 PM
 
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Because someone is new here, you assume that he did not read the threads before, or that he does not have the experience or an honest opinion that he is entitled too.

That's what I called short minded.

Anyway, I see more arguments here than it should be. Seems everybody won't accept other opinions. And the true truth is not really debatable. Ears are confuse by sound differences, they are very imprecise (human ears).
Precise instrumentations and measurements are much more accurate, and they show
variations in sound, even coming from the same model CD players from the same manufacturer.

I do agree that by listening with our ears, it is often very difficult to hear any differences at all between two CD players, in their sound; that doesn't mean that there aren't any.
They are from the instrumentation's and precise & accurate measurement's technics.

Is it everyone that disagree with that, or is there someone that do agree?
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post #109 of 423 Old 03-20-2009, 05:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lordoftherings View Post

.

Anyway, I see more arguments here than it should be. Seems everybody won't accept other opinions.

When someone says that it is their opinion that the second law of thermodynamics is horsefeathers, what should we be accepting of? What if they don't say that outright, but say it by implication?

Quote:


And the true truth is not really debatable. Ears are confuse by sound differences, they are very imprecise (human ears).
Precise instrumentations and measurements are much more accurate, and they show variations in sound, even coming from the same model CD players from the same manufacturer.

If something measures different, does it necessarily sound different?

Quote:


I do agree that by listening with our ears, it is often very difficult to hear any differences at all between two CD players, in their sound; that doesn't mean that there aren't any.

Isn't any what?

Quote:


They are from the instrumentation's and precise & accurate measurement's technics.

Is it everyone that disagree with that, or is there someone that do agree?

Of course we can measure differences between just about anything. The left and right channels of every amp measure out differently at some level of detail.

So what? Measuring a difference does not mean that the difference is audible to anybody.

There are some general guidelines as to which measurable differences are audible. Every possible measurable difference has been characterized in this way.
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post #110 of 423 Old 03-20-2009, 11:34 AM
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It is just amazing to see where this discussing is going..

The simply question is...

Is it ok to use a DVD player as a CD player? Are the differences very noticible (if any).

Somehow it started like that and it going for atoms, MRI scanners, particles...

LOL...

Sorry to say all this, but this is frustating, and I am now a trully believer that it is best to listen and decide for ourselves.


Listening is the best experience.
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post #111 of 423 Old 03-20-2009, 12:04 PM
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...and the simple answer is yes to the first question and no to the second question.
There. See?
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post #112 of 423 Old 03-20-2009, 12:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kate* View Post

It is just amazing to see where this discussing is going..

The simply question is...

Is it ok to use a DVD player as a CD player?yes Are the differences very noticible (if any).
no
Somehow it started like that and it going for atoms, MRI scanners, particles...well, sometimes tangents happens

LOL...

Sorry to say all this, but this is frustating, and I am now a trully believer that it is best to listen and decide for ourselves.


that's too bad. i was hoping we could convince you otherwise...

- chris

 

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post #113 of 423 Old 03-20-2009, 01:00 PM
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That a girl, Kate. Strength through unity! Unity through faith!

"I've found that when you want to know the truth about someone that someone is probably the last person you should ask." - Gregory House
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post #114 of 423 Old 03-20-2009, 01:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arnyk View Post

El, I find it interesting that when I mention poorly-informed people, you respond like I was calling hogs to dinner. ;-)

my name is el, but you can call me eljr

can I call you arny?

What you got back home, little sister, to play your fuzzy warbles on? I bet you got little save pitiful, portable picnic players. Come with uncle and hear all proper! Hear angel trumpets and devil trombones. You are invited.
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post #115 of 423 Old 03-20-2009, 02:30 PM
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Originally Posted by arnyk View Post

El, I find it interesting that when I mention poorly-informed people, you respond like I was calling hogs to dinner. ;-)

Now that is funny!
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post #116 of 423 Old 03-20-2009, 03:30 PM
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Quote:


I do agree that by listening with our ears, it is often very difficult to hear any differences at all between two CD players, in their sound; that doesn't mean that there aren't any.
They are from the instrumentation's and precise & accurate measurement's technics.

Is it everyone that disagree with that, or is there someone that do agree?

Well, there are people who disagree with this, but the people who have been arguing with you here do not. Perhaps we misunderstood what you were trying to say initially.

If you can't explain how it works, you can't say it doesn't.—The High-End Creed

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post #117 of 423 Old 03-20-2009, 03:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kate* View Post

...LOL...

Sorry to say all this, but this is frustating, and I am now a trully believer that it is best to listen and decide for ourselves.


That may lead one to unreliable perceptions and information. You can see how others have done this and come up with all sorts of imagined sound differences
Or, in other consumer marketplace, we get fooled all the time.
It is best to seek answers, reliable ones, that can be hard to determine though.
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post #118 of 423 Old 03-20-2009, 03:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eljr View Post

LMAO!!!!!

Come on, be honest. Who is the pack?

LMAO!!!!

You people kill me.

I assumed he was referring to the voices in LOTR's head.
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post #119 of 423 Old 03-20-2009, 03:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lordoftherings View Post

...
I do agree that by listening with our ears, it is often very difficult to hear any differences at all between two CD players, in their sound; that doesn't mean that there aren't any.
They are from the instrumentation's and precise & accurate measurement's technics.

Is it everyone that disagree with that, or is there someone that do agree?

But, it really doesn't matter if there are measured differences as that was not the original question but if there are audible differences. So, if one cannot detect audible differences, then the choice of a player should be based on other criteria: looks, $$$, flexibility, weight, etc.
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post #120 of 423 Old 03-20-2009, 03:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kate* View Post

It is just amazing to see where this discussing is going..

The simply question is...

Is it ok to use a DVD player as a CD player?


Sure. It won't bite you.

Quote:


Are the differences very noticible (if any).

Not likely, if you compared them fairly.

And DVD players play DVDs too!
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