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post #181 of 227 Old 11-16-2011, 12:28 PM
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Add 176.4 PCM for the Yamaha BD-A1010.

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post #182 of 227 Old 11-17-2011, 04:45 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson View Post

Add 176.4 PCM for the Yamaha BD-A1010.

Done.

Did you receive my email, Kal?

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post #183 of 227 Old 11-17-2011, 11:50 PM
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88.2 kHz confirmed for DSD to PCM conversion in Pioneer BDP-53FD/BDP-LX55:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...5#post21226715
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post #184 of 227 Old 12-19-2011, 12:26 AM
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I have a Sony BDP-S380 player that I am sending DSD to my Onkyo 805 receiver (Burr Brown 24/196 DAC) via HDMI. When I check the receiver it indicates it is receiving a 44.1 signal, not the high resolution one would expect from SACD.

I have tried every conceivable setup feature for both the player and the AVR to no avail. Anyone else using an 805? I realize it is a few years old but I see no need to upgrade anytime soon.

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post #185 of 227 Old 12-19-2011, 12:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NWCgrad View Post

... Sony BDP-S380 player ... sending DSD to my Onkyo 805 receiver ...

You mean the TX-SR805?

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... indicates it is receiving a 44.1 signal ... I have tried every conceivable setup feature for both the player and the AVR ...

Really?
In the S380 Audio Settings the "DSD Output Mode" is set to "On"?
In the S380 Music Settings the "Super Audio CD Playback Layer" is set to "Super Audio CD"?

Is there any other device in the HDMI chain?
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post #186 of 227 Old 12-19-2011, 04:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drSeehas View Post

You mean the TX-SR805?

Really?
In the S380 Audio Settings the "DSD Output Mode" is set to "On"?
In the S380 Music Settings the "Super Audio CD Playback Layer" is set to "Super Audio CD"?

Is there any other device in the HDMI chain?

Yes, the TX-SR805 but the player is the Sony BDP-S480.

DSD output mode is set to "On" and playback layer is set to SACD. No other devices in the chain (Sony BDP-S480 --> [HDMI] --> Onkyo TX-SR805 --> [HDMI] --> BenQ PE7700 projector).

Tried multiple SACDs and front display shows DSD/2.0 or 5.1 (disc dependent)/44.1 kHz. SACDs sound good through the system, but I may have to dig out my RCA cables and use the analog output (I can't imagine it will be all that good in a $100 BluRay player).

Any help from the experts would be greatly appreciated. I am thinking about getting a file server soon (such as the Auraliti PK100/90 [PK100 reviewed at http://www.computeraudiophile.com/co...Player-Review]) and a new DAC (Peachtree Audio DAC•iT or Schiit Bifrost) in a few months.

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post #187 of 227 Old 12-19-2011, 06:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NWCgrad View Post

... No other devices in the chain (Sony BDP-S480 --> [HDMI] --> Onkyo TX-SR805 --> [HDMI] --> BenQ PE7700 projector).

So, there IS another device in the chain: The BenQ PE7700 projector.

I know neither the Onkyo TX-SR805 nor the BenQ PE7700 projector.

You could try the following (only for testing):
  • Switch off the BenQ PE7700 projector (not standby, to be sure, unplug the power cable) or unplug the HDMI cable between receiver and projector at your choice.
  • Switch off the receiver and the player.
  • Switch on in the following order!: 1st receiver, 2nd player.
  • Don't switch on or connect the projector!
  • Now try to play a SACD. What does the display show now?
Maybe you ask in the Onkyo TX-SR805 thread, what other users get on their display with SACDs.

Quote:


... front display shows DSD/2.0 or 5.1 (disc dependent)/44.1 kHz...

This doesn't make sense as DSD is 2.8224 MHz.
Either you receive PCM with 44.1 kHz or DSD with 2.8224 MHz.

Quote:


... but I may have to dig out my RCA cables and use the analog output (I can't imagine it will be all that good in a $100 BluRay player).

Yes. The DAC in the receiver is better than the DAC in the Sony 480 player. Waste of time.
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post #188 of 227 Old 12-19-2011, 06:44 AM
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805 as well as other Onkyo's of that time - 875, 905, can work with DSD. I do not know where you got 44.1, if from service display, than you are right, it converts DSD to PCM at 44.1 for DSP (like Audissey) processing. You can choose Direct mode if you want DSD passed directly to DAC without any processing.
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post #189 of 227 Old 12-20-2011, 06:38 PM
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drSeehas and ap1, thank you for your input it is greatly appreciated.

I removed the HDMI cable to the BenQ and set the receiver to HDMI Output = OFF. Unplugged to reset and tried again. Still shows up in the display screen as Fs = 44.1 kHz (documented in the attachment - sorry about the incredibly poor quality picture but the important information can be read).

I tried the Pure and Direct mode, same display. Perhaps the display is incorrect, as it shows it is a DSD stream and not PCM.
LL

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post #190 of 227 Old 12-20-2011, 07:14 PM
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Nothing wrong. See this for an explanation of what the fs value is.

Audiosceptics accept audio trials using 25 people. A recent Oxford study with over 353,000 patient records from 639 separate clinical trials shows for every 1,000 people taking diclofenac or ibuprofen there would be 3 additional heart attacks, 4 more cases of heart failure and 1 death every year.

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post #191 of 227 Old 12-20-2011, 07:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kilian.ca View Post

Nothing wrong. See this for an explanation of what the fs value is.

Thanks for the link, that clears things up!

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post #192 of 227 Old 12-22-2011, 09:41 AM
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hi guys

On the Cambridge 751BD,

According to this tester here (in french) if we follow the analog path it always translates into pcm because of the wolfson 8740, also from what he says for PCM we can assume it goes up to 176KHz

http://www.hdfever.fr/2011/11/11/tes...e-audio-751bd/

"Par contre, un des points assez décevants sur ce Cambridge vient du fait que les DACs Wolfson ne gèrent pas le DSD. Si vous décidiez de lire le Super Audio CD en connexion analogique vers un intégré ou sur un ampli AV en bypass (car il n’y a pas de contrôle de volume sur ce lecteur, donc pas d’ampli de puissance relié directement), vous serez obligé de convertir le DSD en PCM, et vous perdrez donc tout l’intérêt de la numérisation du DSD en 1 bits / 2.8 Mhz qui propose ce timbre si chaleureux et cette spatialisation et localisation des musiciens propres au Super Audio CD. Dommage !

Quoi qu’il en soit, la qualité de la conversion DSD/PCM/Analogique est tout de même excellente avec un DSD converti en 176.4 khz / 24 bits, puis en analogique avec la qualité des DACs Wolfson que l’on vient de voir."
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post #193 of 227 Old 12-22-2011, 09:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ninogui View Post

On the Cambridge 751BD,

According to this tester here (in french) ... from what he says for PCM we can assume it goes up to 176KHz

Assumption isn't sufficient. Usually the receiver's front display shows the sample rate of the incoming PCM via HDMI. We need some one to see it happening at least.

The DSD-PCM-analogue decoding isn't the topic of this thread but usually it is unknown unless there is official documentation, an info OSD showing the sample rate or a means to capture the PCM inside and analyse it. The HDMI output is a pointer but only a pointer. The CA 751 does upsampling to 24/192 for the analogue outputs as its major selling point and I don't know if this applies to SACD.

Audiosceptics accept audio trials using 25 people. A recent Oxford study with over 353,000 patient records from 639 separate clinical trials shows for every 1,000 people taking diclofenac or ibuprofen there would be 3 additional heart attacks, 4 more cases of heart failure and 1 death every year.

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post #194 of 227 Old 12-27-2011, 10:23 AM
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Last week I acquired a Sony BDP-S480. I am only using it to play SACDs. I have it set to output DSD via HDMI to my Denon AVR-2809. The DSD indicator illuminates on the Denon, as do each of the 5.1 input channel indicators. The sound is pristine. I cannot perceive any difference from the Oppo-BDP93 that preceded it.
So, my question is; if you are only using a player to read an SACD and pass a DSD Signal to an AVR where the sound is decoded, is there any audible reason to spend more for a higher quality player? It would certainly look better, be built stronger, and probably last longer. Other than that, should I/we care? I am using a Panasonic DMP-BTD310 for Blu-Ray, as I need dual HDMI outputs.

Denon AVR-2809
Pioneer Elite 141-FD
Dahlquist 9c mains
Pinnacle center & surrounds
Panasonic DMP-BTD310 (for DVDs)
Sony BDP-S480 (for SACDs)
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post #195 of 227 Old 12-27-2011, 11:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bmwetr View Post

So, my question is; if you are only using a player to read an SACD and pass a DSD Signal to an AVR where the sound is decoded, is there any audible reason to spend more for a higher quality player?

No, there is no real difference. You use player as a transport only, so DAC and analog part in it (which might make a difference) is bypassed.
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post #196 of 227 Old 04-04-2012, 07:24 AM - Thread Starter
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I added the new Primare universal player and cleaned up the list in a few other respects. I assume that since the Primare is also based on the Oppos, it outputs PCM over HDMI at only 88.2 kHz. Until that's confirmed, though, I'll leave it unspecified.

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post #197 of 227 Old 04-05-2012, 01:00 AM
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What about the new Sony BDP-S390, -S490, -S590 and -S790?
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post #198 of 227 Old 06-14-2012, 10:15 AM
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My onkyo 875 receiver is reporting 44.1 kHZ from my Sony BDP-S590 with SACD...smile.gif
Confirm SACD-R

Edit: firm .369 remove SACD-R mad.gif
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post #199 of 227 Old 06-29-2012, 09:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drSeehas View Post

What about the new Sony BDP-S390, -S490, -S590 and -S790?

Any update about these players?
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post #200 of 227 Old 07-01-2012, 03:47 AM
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Page one of this thread has the current update. The sony players you mention are all capable of 176 khz pcm.
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post #201 of 227 Old 07-04-2012, 07:33 AM
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The Sony 5400ES is available again. There are a few dealers on Audiogon and eBay selling them. I just picked one up with build date APRIL 2012! biggrin.gif

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post #202 of 227 Old 07-17-2012, 06:12 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AVfile View Post

The Sony 5400ES is available again. There are a few dealers on Audiogon and eBay selling them. I just picked one up with build date APRIL 2012! biggrin.gif
Thanks for the surprising but great news! I've moved the 5400ES out of the "discontinued" lists!
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post #203 of 227 Old 09-22-2012, 09:52 PM - Thread Starter
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I've added some new players from a few of the larger manufacturers (Denon, Oppo, Pioneer), and I've moved a few items into the discontinued lists. If you know of any further additions or have some corrections, please let me know!
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post #204 of 227 Old 09-25-2012, 04:16 AM
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I'd move the oppo 93 to discontinued as well. Only refurbs are available.
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post #205 of 227 Old 09-25-2012, 01:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AVfile View Post

The Sony 5400ES is available again. There are a few dealers on Audiogon and eBay selling them. I just picked one up with build date APRIL 2012! biggrin.gif

At least the incompetent folks in Sony marketing came to their senses.wink.gifcool.gif
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post #206 of 227 Old 09-26-2012, 06:12 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
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I'd move the oppo 93 to discontinued as well. Only refurbs are available.

Done!
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post #207 of 227 Old 02-23-2013, 06:15 AM
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Bumping this thread for anyone still interested in the topic. Been a little disapointed in (now both) of my Oppo's regarding DSD. My first bdp-83 would NOT pass DSD unless it was DISCONNECTED from the TV (Sharp LED). Even then after MUCH comparisons, my Sony bdp-s770 would not only pass the DSD (to my Onkyo NR809), but sounded MUCH better overall to me. I actually could NOT tell much audible difference between DSD out of the Oppo and decoded PCM. I still do listem to my (few) 2 channel stero SACD's on the OPPO as the decoding to PCM actually add's a little "punch" to an otherwise weak sounding mix compared to the DSD stream.


I just hooked up my new bdp-103. SAME result as the 83. At this point, I will just rely on the Sony for the DSD surround playback and the OPPO for everything else.


Not to knock the Oppo, and I realize that SACD is a pretty much niche format (I sought out the Onkyo just to get the DSD decoding over HDMI as MOST all of the current AVR's do not support it anymore). It just that the OPPO's are held in such high regard, the SACD support does not compare (IMO) to the Sony's.
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post #208 of 227 Old 02-23-2013, 06:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jfbar1 View Post

Bumping this thread for anyone still interested in the topic. Been a little disapointed in (now both) of my Oppo's regarding DSD. My first bdp-83 would NOT pass DSD unless it was DISCONNECTED from the TV (Sharp LED). Even then after MUCH comparisons, my Sony bdp-s770 would not only pass the DSD (to my Onkyo NR809), but sounded MUCH better overall to me. I actually could NOT tell much audible difference between DSD out of the Oppo and decoded PCM. I still do listem to my (few) 2 channel stero SACD's on the OPPO as the decoding to PCM actually add's a little "punch" to an otherwise weak sounding mix compared to the DSD stream.


I just hooked up my new bdp-103. SAME result as the 83. At this point, I will just rely on the Sony for the DSD surround playback and the OPPO for everything else.


Not to knock the Oppo, and I realize that SACD is a pretty much niche format (I sought out the Onkyo just to get the DSD decoding over HDMI as MOST all of the current AVR's do not support it anymore). It just that the OPPO's are held in such high regard, the SACD support does not compare (IMO) to the Sony's.

There is one advantage Oppo has over Sony - it plays SACD-R disks. None of Sony players do it.
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post #209 of 227 Old 02-23-2013, 09:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jfbar1 View Post

I just hooked up my new bdp-103. SAME result as the 83. At this point, I will just rely on the Sony for the DSD surround playback and the OPPO for everything else.
 

Which HDMI output are you using?


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post #210 of 227 Old 02-23-2013, 09:46 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jfbar1 View Post

Bumping this thread for anyone still interested in the topic.

Is there anything missing from the list on the first page?

Matty
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