high-end CD player .. worth it? - Page 7 - AVS Forum
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post #181 of 266 Old 10-22-2011, 06:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CharlesJ View Post

Well, you claimed to hear the difference but it has yet to be established.

Righhhttt, so I was imagining it all and my sister was lying because what you're saying HAS to be right.
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post #182 of 266 Old 10-22-2011, 07:56 AM
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Originally Posted by kiwi2 View Post

You don't think that in 50 years time people that look back at our current understanding of things will think how little we knew... just like when we look back 50 years..??

Of course I do. I just don't think that it means we know nothing at all now.
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post #183 of 266 Old 10-22-2011, 08:01 AM
 
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Originally Posted by kiwi2 View Post

... only to have his observations confirmed a few years later where our instruments got clever enough to fly themselves across the solar system for a closer look.

You don't think that in 50 years time people that look back at our current understanding of things will think how little we knew... just like when we look back 50 years..??

Funny thing is, those who claim to have observed the difference between CD players couldn't do it when volumes were matched and players covered from the view.
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post #184 of 266 Old 10-26-2011, 06:39 AM
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Nonsense; CD players clearly do sound different from each other; it's pretty clearly established different filters, different DAC chips, etc. do affect sound reproduction.
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post #185 of 266 Old 10-26-2011, 01:38 PM
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Originally Posted by diomania View Post

Funny thing is, those who claim to have observed the difference between CD players couldn't do it when volumes were matched and players covered from the view.

Funny thing is, SOME who claim to have observed the difference between CD players couldn't do it when volumes were matched and players covered from the view..........
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post #186 of 266 Old 10-26-2011, 01:40 PM
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Originally Posted by kucharsk View Post

Nonsense; CD players clearly do sound different from each other; it's pretty clearly established different filters, different DAC chips, etc. do affect sound reproduction.

Sounds reasonable to me.
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post #187 of 266 Old 10-26-2011, 03:27 PM
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Originally Posted by par4 View Post

Funny thing is, SOME who claim to have observed the difference between CD players couldn't do it when volumes were matched and players covered from the view..........

I bet the gifted ones who can hear differences between CD players can also hear differences between cheap and expensive cables?

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post #188 of 266 Old 10-26-2011, 09:14 PM
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Originally Posted by holt7153 View Post

I bet the gifted ones who can hear differences between CD players can also hear differences between cheap and expensive cables?

Who says they're gifted?
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post #189 of 266 Old 10-27-2011, 10:46 AM
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I have listened to cds through my DVD player via HDMI cable and CDs through a Emotiva XDA-1 DAC. I heard essentially no difference between the two. I went back and forth and back and forth several times hoping for that ah ha moment. But nothing yet. Extrapolating to the higher end of things, I believe that the average Joe or Jane probably couldn't tell the difference between a Bryston and a low end Samsung BD player. But to be honest, should I win the lottery, I would upgrade every componet in my system with high end products.
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post #190 of 266 Old 10-28-2011, 08:15 PM
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Originally Posted by par4 View Post

Who says they're gifted?

By self proclamation?
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post #191 of 266 Old 10-28-2011, 08:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kucharsk View Post

Nonsense; CD players clearly do sound different from each other; it's pretty clearly established different filters, different DAC chips, etc. do affect sound reproduction.

And how was that established?
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post #192 of 266 Old 11-04-2011, 03:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Freak_Zombie3711 View Post

The blind test was my sister switching the amplifiers and cd players without my knowledge. Complete blindfold. Each test was conducted over about 2 songs.


So you didn't match the levels?

Sound and video is not magic, it is pure physics. Physics that can be magical
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post #193 of 266 Old 11-04-2011, 03:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kucharsk View Post

Nonsense; CD players clearly do sound different from each other; it's pretty clearly established different filters, different DAC chips, etc. do affect sound reproduction.


In most cases, no. But you can show it in a level matched blindtest.

Sound and video is not magic, it is pure physics. Physics that can be magical
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post #194 of 266 Old 11-04-2011, 04:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by holt7153 View Post

I bet the gifted ones who can hear differences between CD players can also hear differences between cheap and expensive cables?

Why would anyone think that cables have to be expensive to sound different?

I have expensive cables that I do not care for. I have inexpensive cables that do fine in certain systems.

If amp, CD players, cables, etc. differences do not matter to a person, then they go to Best Buy or Wally World and grab the cheapest gear with the most features.

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post #195 of 266 Old 11-04-2011, 07:57 PM
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Originally Posted by tesseract67 View Post

Why would anyone think that cables have to be expensive to sound different?

I have expensive cables that I do not care for. I have inexpensive cables that do fine in certain systems.

If amp, CD players, cables, etc. differences do not matter to a person, then they go to Best Buy or Wally World and grab the cheapest gear with the most features.

Yep, or Monoprice, AudiogoN, etc.

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post #196 of 266 Old 11-04-2011, 10:50 PM
 
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Originally Posted by tesseract67 View Post

If amp, CD players, cables, etc. differences do not matter to a person, then they go to Best Buy or Wally World and grab the cheapest gear with the most features.

Difference of durability absolutely matters and to smaller degree the appearance matters too.
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post #197 of 266 Old 11-07-2011, 04:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CharlesJ View Post

And how was that established?

I, for one, certainly can - level matching doesn't affect the harsh metallic-sounding strings as reproduced by many CD players that isn't produced by others.

As others here have said, if you can't hear the difference, get the cheapest player you can find.

If you can, well, there's definitely more than just preconceived notions at play.
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post #198 of 266 Old 11-07-2011, 06:38 AM
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Very convincing.
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post #199 of 266 Old 11-10-2011, 06:18 PM
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This was a good read on a cold night.
I have treatments, more than a couple of good amps, a dedicated listening space, nice well made speakers, and pride of ownership. I am aware how important measuring is......it all makes sense to me, flat response, reflection, absorption, nodes.... What doesnt make sense is the statement that DACs dont make a difference. Could you guys point out where I can download a measurement device for Soundstage and imaging, these seem to be the biggest differences in DACs. As soon as you do I can post details and measurements between my Hi end CDP and my '95 GE DVD player. While your at it I need a download for measuring differences in tubes as well, I need one that lets me measure the amount of syrup in the mids.
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post #200 of 266 Old 11-10-2011, 07:34 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Perry R View Post

As soon as you do I can post details and measurements between my Hi end CDP and my '95 GE DVD player.

No need to. This kind of thing has been done more than once.
http://www.stereophile.com/content/o...r-measurements
http://www.stereophile.com/content/m...r-measurements
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post #201 of 266 Old 11-10-2011, 07:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Perry R View Post

As soon as you do I can post details and measurements between my Hi end CDP and my '95 GE DVD player.

You sure that the GE isn't the higher end player? It must be very advanced, being built two years before the format was even released. Amazing really.
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post #202 of 266 Old 11-10-2011, 09:07 PM
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Originally Posted by WilliamZX11 View Post

You sure that the GE isn't the higher end player? It must be very advanced, being built two years before the format was even released. Amazing really.

Your right......I just pulled that 95 out of my.....being my age sometimes you misplace a decade '05, or there abouts, for whatever thats worth. But I think you know where I'm coming from.
You can measure for a lot of things, some that make the most difference, that make the biggest impact ........you cant.
Or, maybe you do know of measuring device for depth and width of presentation. If you cant hear that, then Best Buy it is.
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post #203 of 266 Old 11-10-2011, 09:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Perry R View Post

You can measure for a lot of things, some that make the most difference, that make the biggest impact ........you cant.
Or, maybe you do know of measuring device for depth and width of presentation. If you cant hear that, then Best Buy it is.

Who needs measurements? Just use your ears to demonstrate that the difference exists in a level matched comparison. If you can't do that, then Best Buy it is.

Personally, I like gear with a little better build quality than what BB has, so they are not an option for me.
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post #204 of 266 Old 11-10-2011, 10:25 PM
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Originally Posted by WilliamZX11 View Post

Who needs measurements? Just use your ears to demonstrate that the difference exists in a level matched comparison. If you can't do that, then Best Buy it is.

Personally, I like gear with a little better build quality than what BB has, so they are not an option for me.

Exactly my point, measurements get you only so far......then its all ears.

I'm not much of a BB guy either, more hands on......but I did buy my TV there, so I guess theyre good for some kinds of gear
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post #205 of 266 Old 11-11-2011, 05:59 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Perry R View Post

Exactly my point, measurements get you only so far......then its all ears.

Measurements can show you beyond what you can tell with your ears only, 1/24th octave division in RTA for example. What your eyes are doing to your brain while listening to music may be a different issue.
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post #206 of 266 Old 11-11-2011, 06:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Perry R View Post


Exactly my point, measurements get you only so far......then its all ears.

I'm not much of a BB guy either, more hands on......but I did buy my TV there, so I guess theyre good for some kinds of gear

I recently got 20 years old preamp with internal DAC to experiment with. That was high-end unit back then. While analog part sounded perfectly, I didn't like its DAC in comparison with a modern player. So I did tests, and found that third harmonic is too high at -85dB. Service manual describes a procedure to adjust DAC. Which I did, bringing third harmonic to -110dB level (hardly seen above noise level). And sure enough I can't distinguish its sound from new player anymore. So measurements are useful to make sure that there is nothing wrong with device (or see what is wrong with it).
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post #207 of 266 Old 11-11-2011, 11:50 PM
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I have several different CD players and they all sound completely different. I could blind fold myself and tell anyone which player is which, when playing CD's. But the only way I initially compare them is playing two at the same time, into the same amp. (Confirming the inputs on the amp sound the same). The worst sounding CD player I've ever heard was the Sony Playstation SCPH-1001. The highs were completely capped so it sounded like I had covers over my speakers. Budget DVD/CD players also sound very thin...Almost 'electronic' sounding.

The differences are there and in some cases, huge...Some people just don't have the ears for it.
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post #208 of 266 Old 11-12-2011, 06:52 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Majestyk View Post

The differences are there and in some cases, huge...Some people just don't have the ears for it.

Some people just don't care to listen at matched volume.
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post #209 of 266 Old 11-12-2011, 08:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Majestyk View Post

The differences are there and in some cases, huge...Some people just don't have the ears for it.

Or maybe we just don't use the right wires, eh?
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post #210 of 266 Old 11-12-2011, 10:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Majestyk View Post

I have several different CD players and they all sound completely different. I could blind fold myself and tell anyone which player is which, when playing CD's. But the only way I initially compare them is playing two at the same time, into the same amp. (Confirming the inputs on the amp sound the same). The worst sounding CD player I've ever heard was the Sony Playstation SCPH-1001. The highs were completely capped so it sounded like I had covers over my speakers. Budget DVD/CD players also sound very thin...Almost 'electronic' sounding.

The differences are there and in some cases, huge...Some people just don't have the ears for it.

Interesting claims, but hard to demonstrate under unbiased conditions and objectively.
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