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post #91 of 354 Old 03-04-2010, 09:37 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Corybud View Post

I should have left it at that to begin with.

Perhaps you should have thought of that before starting this thread.
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post #92 of 354 Old 03-04-2010, 10:12 AM - Thread Starter
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[quote=geekhd;18245462]As I stated, he hasn't posted the things here (internet forum where people can reply) you and gbaby posted.


Oh I get it now. Because only the links to the reviews that take you directly to what was said is like the "tree falling in the forest" argument and there fore don't count.
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post #93 of 354 Old 03-04-2010, 11:19 AM
 
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Oh I get it now. Because only the links to the reviews that take you directly to what was said is like the "tree falling in the forest" argument and there fore don't count.

Try to understand the difference between magazine article and online discussion forum. By the way, based on your evasiveness displayed so far, writing an article is what you really want to do, not discussion.
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post #94 of 354 Old 03-04-2010, 11:21 AM
 
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Was that by blind testing?

Probably (not much has been revealed) the same type of auditioning you did.
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post #95 of 354 Old 03-04-2010, 01:12 PM
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Probably (not much has been revealed) the same type of auditioning you did.

I was just kidding with you.
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post #96 of 354 Old 03-04-2010, 10:28 PM
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I believe you.. Too bad others want your blood..

You are too easy to convince
Others want a better story, more convincing.
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post #97 of 354 Old 03-05-2010, 02:27 PM
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Originally Posted by gbaby View Post

...
See answer above.

I read his Mar article. He doesn't do DBT, unable to he said. So, his sonic evaluation is just a questionable as the next persons; he certainly doesn't have immunity from subconscious biases, hence his perceptionsf audible differences are unreliable as well.
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post #98 of 354 Old 03-05-2010, 03:27 PM
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I read his Mar article. He doesn't do DBT, unable to he said. So, his sonic evaluation is just a questionable as the next persons; he certainly doesn't have immunity from subconscious biases, hence his perceptionsf audible differences are unreliable as well.

He dosn't have to do double blind testing. It does not take this to hear subtleties in music from recording of which you are familiar. It also does not take double blind testing to hear lack of edgyness or that digital bite. I was in another room and heard a sound on my 5400 that I never heard on any other CD player or blu-ray. The sonic sophicatication of the 5400 is readily apparent as long as you are using its analog outs and assuming you have decent equipment. Can you please reveal the type of speakers you use as well as receiver and/or processor and music playback hardware?
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post #99 of 354 Old 03-05-2010, 06:19 PM
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He dosn't have to do double blind testing. It does not take this to hear subtleties in music from recording of which you are familiar.

You certainly allowed to think that but it is not based in factsNo wonder there is so much report of differences, absolute nonsense.


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It also does not take double blind testing to hear lack of edgyness or that digital bite. I was in another room and heard a sound on my 5400 that I never heard on any other CD player or blu-ray. The sonic sophicatication of the 5400 is readily apparent as long as you are using its analog outs and assuming you have decent equipment.

Same As above.

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Can you please reveal the type of speakers you use as well as receiver and/or processor and music playback hardware?

Irrelevant to what you can hear or imagine, isn't it. I really don't need any speakers other than a car radio or a clock radio to enjoy music, right?
And, my abilities doesn't affect your claims or others. Same old excuse from the subjective types: your speaker is not revealing enough, and on it goes.
Until you can pass a credible DBT about your claims, or any one's for that matter, those claims are most unreliable and has no real meaning to others
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post #100 of 354 Old 03-05-2010, 06:28 PM
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Originally Posted by geekhd View Post

I've heard differences between CDPs.

Prove it.

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post #101 of 354 Old 03-05-2010, 07:11 PM
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[quote=CharlesJ

Irrelevant to what you can hear or imagine, isn't it. I really don't need any speakers other than a car radio or a clock radio to enjoy music, right?
And, my abilities doesn't affect your claims or others. Same old excuse from the subjective types: your speaker is not revealing enough, and on it goes.
Until you can pass a credible DBT about your claims, or any one's for that matter, those claims are most unreliable and has no real meaning to others[/QUOTE]

Obviously you are NOT an audiophile. The only reason I asked about your equipment is that the components collectively may no allow you to hear immediate sonic improvement. Its a fact, good sounding equipment makes a difference no matter how much it cost. You can get good sound from inexpensive equipment. I sold audio in the '70s. I can hear an improvement in my system simply by changing amps, cables, or processor. My speakers are very reveiling and neutral so with a unit like the 5400, I can hear that I have something special because my music never sounded so good.
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post #102 of 354 Old 03-05-2010, 07:22 PM
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System synergy and component matching are important.

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post #103 of 354 Old 03-05-2010, 08:02 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by tesseract67 View Post

System synergy and component matching are important.

I completly agree along with adiquate room treatment makes for an outstanding sound system. You don't have to spend a fortune to get good sound.

Also on a side note it has been recomended by more than a few who have sent me private messages to ignore and not feed trolls.
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post #104 of 354 Old 03-05-2010, 09:24 PM
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I completly agree along with adiquate room treatment makes for an outstanding sound system. You don't have to spend a fortune to get good sound.

Also on a side note it has been recomended by more than a few who have sent me private messages to ignore and not feed trolls.

I will be doing room treatments soon. Careful furniture placement only takes you so far.

I too own several CDP's. They each have their own sound.

The troll is deaf, dumb and blind. Pretty harmless.

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post #105 of 354 Old 03-05-2010, 09:28 PM
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Originally Posted by gbaby View Post

I sold audio in the '70s. I can hear an improvement in my system simply by changing amps, cables, or processor.

What does selling audio equipment in the 70's have to do with it? Tens of thousands of people sold audio equipment in the 70's, nothing special there. But like you, not a single one has ever been able to prove they can hear the difference between cables. You could be famous, if you could actually back that claim up.
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post #106 of 354 Old 03-05-2010, 10:19 PM
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No one can reliably discern differences between CDP's either. This doesn't mean they all sound the same.

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post #107 of 354 Old 03-06-2010, 10:48 AM
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What does selling audio equipment in the 70's have to do with it? Tens of thousands of people sold audio equipment in the 70's, nothing special there. But like you, not a single one has ever been able to prove they can hear the difference between cables. You could be famous, if you could actually back that claim up.

My having sold equipment in the '70s only means I have a little experience with audio equipment. I sold Accuphase, Phase Linear, Naks, Crown amps, Klipsch Horns, JBLs, Infinity, Marantz, Sony El Cassettes (don't laugh), you name it. As far as proving I can hear the difference, why not ask me to prove what you are thinking as you read this response?
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post #108 of 354 Old 03-06-2010, 03:47 PM
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Obviously you are NOT an audiophile. The only reason I asked about your equipment is that the components collectively may no allow you to hear immediate sonic improvement. Its a fact, good sounding equipment makes a difference no matter how much it cost. You can get good sound from inexpensive equipment. I sold audio in the '70s. I can hear an improvement in my system simply by changing amps, cables, or processor. My speakers are very reveiling and neutral so with a unit like the 5400, I can hear that I have something special because my music never sounded so good.

Again, whether I am or am not an audiophile is IRRELEVANT to the discussions about what you can credibly differentiate between players, period. Why is that so hard to understand???
After all, you are the one making all these audibility claims; I made none either way.
So far, you continue to make such claims with nothing to support them.
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post #109 of 354 Old 03-06-2010, 03:52 PM
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My having sold equipment in the '70s only means I have a little experience with audio equipment....

That is about it.

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As far as proving I can hear the difference, why not ask my to prove what you are thinking as you read this response?

The latter has absolutely nothing to do with your first point. especially since I don't remember you claiming the ability to read minds but I could have missed that claim.
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post #110 of 354 Old 03-06-2010, 06:09 PM
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Again, whether I am or am not an audiophile is IRRELEVANT to the discussions about what you can credibly differentiate between players, period. Why is that so hard to understand???

The fact that being an audiophile is irrelevant to you means it is a hopeless case engaging in any dialog with you on the subject of music from audio equipment. Too bad you don't have good ears. I am thankful I still have mine.
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post #111 of 354 Old 03-06-2010, 06:12 PM
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That is about it.



The latter has absolutely nothing to do with your first point. especially since I don't remember you claiming the ability to read minds but I could have missed that claim.

You missed the point. That point was that for me to prove to you I could hear a difference in the sound is like asking me to prove what you are thinking at a particular moment. It can't be done because only you know your thoughts are at any given time. And, only I know what I hear and I cannot make you hear what I hear. Thats not too hard to understand. When an audiophile expresses a sonic trait for equipment, a person may read the audiophile's recommendation and sonic description, and if he likes the sonic description, he may buy it. But, the audiophile gains credibility when others buy on a recommendation, and others corroborate his findings as far as sonic description. This is what this kind of forum is about. Not challenging people's subjective opinion of what they can or can not hear in equipment. This is not a forum for folks like you.
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post #112 of 354 Old 03-07-2010, 08:18 AM
 
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You missed the point. That point was that for me to prove to you I could hear a difference in the sound is like asking me to prove what you are thinking at a particular moment. It can't be done because only you know your thoughts are at any given time. And, only I know what I hear and I cannot make you hear what I hear. Thats not too hard to understand. When an audiophile expresses a sonic trait for equipment, a person may read the audiophile's recommendation and sonic description, and if he likes the sonic description, he may buy it. But, the audiophile gains credibility when others buy on a recommendation, and others corroborate his findings as far as sonic description.

gbaby, what about level matching, have you done that in any of your CDP comparisons?
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This is what this kind of forum is about. Not challenging people's subjective opinion of what they can or can not hear in equipment. This is not a forum for folks like you.

You've mistaken this forum for Audio Asylum.
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post #113 of 354 Old 03-07-2010, 12:33 PM
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How did you confirm that it is what you heard and not what you think you heard? After all, proof means something definite so I'm asking.

Yes indeed. We seem to have another one of those darned audiophiles sittin' around bein' duped into "thinking" that what he heard was,in fact, ehh, uh, umm, what he heard..... When are you fellers goin' to get it through yer heads that you're all bein' duped by the slick marketing of these darn hi-end companies into spendin' big bucks on their cd players when we all know you just can't hear hear no differences. It's as simple as them fellers just takin control of yer minds so you jess can't be hearin' what you think you're hearin'. Common sense is all. Now you git yourself a nice ol' level matched, controlled listening environment with plenty o' room treatments, and AB yerself to death, and you'll come around to the right way a thinkin'. That is if them fellers who do all that marketin' have'nt already taken over yer darn brains!
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post #114 of 354 Old 03-07-2010, 01:16 PM
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gbaby, what about level matching, have you done that in any of your CDP comparisons?

How many level matched blind tests have you participated in? If you have any actual expertise with what you are suggesting to others, what were your findings?

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post #115 of 354 Old 03-07-2010, 04:13 PM
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.... When are you fellers goin' to get it through yer heads that you're all bein' duped by the slick marketing of these darn hi-end companies into spendin' big bucks on their cd players when we all know you just can't hear hear no differences. ...

Well, it is them and human nature that are the culprits. You know, that part of human nature that can work at the subconscious level, called bias and gullibility. But, how would you know about them? They would throw a monkey wrench in the audiophile community so it is disregarded, on purpose.
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post #116 of 354 Old 03-07-2010, 04:28 PM
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The fact that being an audiophile is irrelevant to you means it is a hopeless case engaging in any dialog with you on the subject of music from audio equipment. Too bad you don't have good ears. I am thankful I still have mine.

Ah, another excuse, I see. Others must have poor hearing, right?
It could not be that you have an active imagination, not interested in bias control to find the facts of audibility.
I could be deaf and still debate the issue of what is reality and what is imagination and senses being fooled by the brain.

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You missed the point. That point was that for me to prove to you I could hear a difference in the sound is like asking me to prove what you are thinking at a particular moment.

Actually, you missed the point and a wrong analogy.
It would be easy for you to demonstrate what you claim. Undertake a credible DBT between your CDPs. If you can pass any one of them, you can in fact hear audible differences beyond imagining them as of now. You see how easy it is to demonstrate what you claims?

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... And, only I know what I hear and I cannot make you hear what I hear. Thats not too hard to understand.

But it must be difficult for you to understand this whole issue.
You perceive something that may or may not be real. You know, that is human nature as our senses can be fooled so easily, didn't you know that??? Human psychology.
So, you may think you heard something but who knows if it was real or your brain fooling you. You dont know, hence the bias control protocols.




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When an audiophile expresses a sonic trait for equipment, a person may read the audiophile's recommendation and sonic description, and if he likes the sonic description, he may buy it. But, the audiophile gains credibility when others buy on a recommendation, and others corroborate his findings as far as sonic description. This is what this kind of forum is about. Not challenging people's subjective opinion of what they can or can not hear in equipment. This is not a forum for folks like you.

But, when such descriptions are not based in facts, what good are they???
And, just because others give similar biased opinions which are not corroborations not based in fact, that reinforces the the myth and urban legends are created. So, until facts are presented, such opinions and recommendations are really have no real worth.
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post #117 of 354 Old 03-08-2010, 08:50 AM
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Yes indeed. We seem to have another one of those darned audiophiles sittin' around bein' duped into "thinking" that what he heard was,in fact, ehh, uh, umm, what he heard..... When are you fellers goin' to get it through yer heads that you're all bein' duped by the slick marketing of these darn hi-end companies into spendin' big bucks on their cd players when we all know you just can't hear hear no differences. It's as simple as them fellers just takin control of yer minds so you jess can't be hearin' what you think you're hearin'. Common sense is all. Now you git yourself a nice ol' level matched, controlled listening environment with plenty o' room treatments, and AB yerself to death, and you'll come around to the right way a thinkin'. That is if them fellers who do all that marketin' have'nt already taken over yer darn brains!

Stick to your Audiovox system and leave us audiophiles alone.
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post #118 of 354 Old 03-08-2010, 09:18 AM - Thread Starter
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Yes indeed. We seem to have another one of those darned audiophiles sittin' around bein' duped into "thinking" that what he heard was,in fact, ehh, uh, umm, what he heard..... When are you fellers goin' to get it through yer heads that you're all bein' duped by the slick marketing of these darn hi-end companies into spendin' big bucks on their cd players when we all know you just can't hear hear no differences. It's as simple as them fellers just takin control of yer minds so you jess can't be hearin' what you think you're hearin'. Common sense is all. Now you git yourself a nice ol' level matched, controlled listening environment with plenty o' room treatments, and AB yerself to death, and you'll come around to the right way a thinkin'. That is if them fellers who do all that marketin' have'nt already taken over yer darn brains!

Yes indeedie....I was dern neer taken in by them fellers til a frien o mine showd me how to blok them there signals. Ya start by bying some renolds aluminum foil stuf and mold it into a helmut then just duck tape it on and them ther aiodofile fellers cant get to ya..........The sound from the stereo machine kind of sucks though.
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post #119 of 354 Old 03-08-2010, 09:57 AM
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As far as proving I can hear the difference, why not ask me to prove what you are thinking as you read this response?

Doesn't take a mind reader there. I'm thinking you're just another audiophile who makes claims he can't back up. Amazing how many can hear the difference in cables, but just can't demonstrate it.
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post #120 of 354 Old 03-08-2010, 10:44 AM
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Doesn't take a mind reader there. I'm thinking you're just another audiophile who makes claims he can't back up. Amazing how many can hear the difference in cables, but just can't demonstrate it.

And, would you, too, be so kind to share with us the equipment you use for listening to music?
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