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post #151 of 354 Old 03-15-2010, 04:26 AM
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Originally Posted by WilliamZX11 View Post

I used to consider myself an audiophile. These days I'd be embarrassed to call myself an audiophile. Who wants to be associated with a group of people who will fall for anything?

You know it's funny, but I can't seem to be able to find that last, bolded part under any dictionary's definition of the word "audiophile".
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post #152 of 354 Old 03-15-2010, 07:24 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Rammitinski View Post

You know it's funny, but I can't seem to be able to find that last, bolded part under any dictionary's definition of the word "audiophile".

Patience. Give it some time to get updated.
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post #153 of 354 Old 03-31-2010, 02:24 PM
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This thread is about Sony's swansong cd-player, one of the best they ever made - allegedly.
It sells as a medium priced unit, however is compared with units 10x its worth - not typical Sony I'd say.
Released end 2008 it was quickly discontinued in 2009, mere months later - funny, that.
Oh, it is still sold, in the US of all places - even funnier, that.
So I bought one there last month, and have got it here - a pleasure, that I can assure you.

I notice that this thread is a bickering contest between those who like to moan/criticize/argument and those who actually like their equipment.
Moaners, pls note that it actually takes a willing attitude to hear any differences, and the type of character you display here clearly indicates that you lack not only this but also a decent system to listen to, car speakers don't cut it, really, and neither do your MP3's.
I am also hallucinating that I hear astonishing differences with this player, and I had a 55ES before which I though was nice enough. It was actually, until I got this one, the old one is gathering dust now.
I've got Madonna True Colors in vinyl and on cd. NEVER during the past 10 years has anyone chosen the cd version as sounding better, tested blind that is. Quite funny actually, as my Linn borders on antique equipment.
Oh, I lie, last week a friend choose the cd as best sounding. Ominous that, the only thing different was the player.

But I know, the naysayers will argue that he was even older than me, and drunk, senile and deaf as a doornail. Fwiw, you are com-ple-te-ly correct.....
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post #154 of 354 Old 03-31-2010, 09:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chmok View Post

....So I bought one there last month, and have got it here - a pleasure, that I can assure you.

I notice that this thread is a bickering contest between those who like to moan/criticize/argument and those who actually like their equipment.

Not quite correct with your analysis.
It is about testable claims made for this component, not about likes and dislikes. Is that so hard to understand?

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Moaners, pls note that it actually takes a willing attitude to hear any differences,

Oh, is that what it takes??? I see. My mistake then. I was under the impression that such claims can be tested beyond imagining things and having a willing attitude.


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Originally Posted by Chmok View Post

and the type of character you display here clearly indicates that you lack not only this but also a decent system to listen to, car speakers don't cut it, really, and neither do your MP3's.

A new poster and already digging yourself a deeper hole.
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I am also hallucinating that I hear astonishing differences with this player, and I had a 55ES before which I though was nice enough.

You mean that cannot be a possibility???
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post #155 of 354 Old 04-06-2010, 01:28 PM
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I am trying to decide between this sony and the oppo 83se for my cd player. In the case of the oppo they say you need to use the analog outs to get the benefit of the improvement from the the non-se version. Is the same true of the sony? Do you need to use the analog outs instead of hdmi to get the benefits?
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post #156 of 354 Old 04-06-2010, 01:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnnycloud View Post

I am trying to decide between this sony and the oppo 83se for my cd player. In the case of the oppo they say you need to use the analog outs to get the benefit of the improvement from the the non-se version. Is the same true of the sony? Do you need to use the analog outs instead of hdmi to get the benefits?

To get 2 channel benefits from the 5400, you use the analog outs. However, if your receiver or processor can accept HDMI, you can get 2 channel and multi-channel except that you will be using the D/A converter on your processor or receiver rather than that of the 5400.
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post #157 of 354 Old 04-06-2010, 01:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rammitinski View Post

You know it's funny, but I can't seem to be able to find that last, bolded part under any dictionary's definition of the word "audiophile".

I would not respond to these folks as they are not posting to share information, but rather, they are posting to antagonize the rest of us. Hopefully, the moderater will ban these folks sooner or later.
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post #158 of 354 Old 04-06-2010, 02:19 PM
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John,

you need to use the analogue's. The DA-conversion of this player - of CD's - is quite differently done, in my limited knowledge in a unique way I think.
But whatever, you'll hear it, and this you would throw away when using another DAC (by using HDMI). Besides, when you'd use the digital output (for CD's) then you're probably better off to buy a transport-only.
I have zero SAcd's, I actually bought this player for its purported outstanding CD-playback - which I can confirm, I hear it & I like it.
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post #159 of 354 Old 04-06-2010, 04:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnnycloud View Post

I am trying to decide between this sony and the oppo 83se for my cd player. In the case of the oppo they say you need to use the analog outs to get the benefit of the improvement from the the non-se version.

Let me clarify this. The benefits you get from the SE is by comparison to the analog outputs of the non-SE version. The HDMI output of the two is identical and not inherently inferior to the analog outputs, even of the SE. It really depends on what you do with the HDMI signal. For many reasons, I prefer the HDMI and I have all of the relevant players in house.

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Is the same true of the sony? Do you need to use the analog outs instead of hdmi to get the benefits?

More confusion. You use the analog outputs to get analog outputs. You use the HDMI output to feed a processor and that is as formidable as the analog outputs.

You need to get a better understanding on the issues. The SE was introduced to offer better "analog output" for those users who have all analog systems and cannot use HDMI. It is not an improvement on HDMI.

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post #160 of 354 Old 04-06-2010, 04:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chmok View Post

you need to use the analogue's.

Why would you make such an absolute statement when the distinctions are not absolute?

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The DA-conversion of this player - of CD's - is quite differently done, in my limited knowledge in a unique way I think.

Better than the original 83, yes. Unique? Debatable.

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But whatever, you'll hear it, and this you would throw away when using another DAC (by using HDMI).

Nonsense.

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Besides, when you'd use the digital output (for CD's) then you're probably better off to buy a transport-only.

Yes but the Oppo and Sony will do that well, too.

Quote:


I have zero SAcd's, I actually bought this player for its purported outstanding CD-playback - which I can confirm, I hear it & I like it.

Good for you.

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post #161 of 354 Old 04-06-2010, 04:31 PM
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Interesting Kal. I am very new to the audio world (above htib anyway). Everything I have been reading seems to mesh with what chmok said. What you wrote is a bit of a revelation to me. To tell you truth I am glad. I would love to just be able to use hdmi and not worry about analogue. hdmi is much more amenable to my 2 monitor + sub set up. I really have been under the impression that analog was inherently superior to hdmi. Learn something new everyday. btw, I think you should probably put what you wrote in the oppo 83se thread, lol.
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post #162 of 354 Old 04-06-2010, 04:45 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Johnnycloud View Post

Everything I have been reading seems to mesh with what chmok said.

That depends on where you go to read. It won't be the case on this forum except for small number of posters.
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post #163 of 354 Old 04-06-2010, 04:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnnycloud View Post

Everything I have been reading seems to mesh with what chmok said.

You need to read more widely.
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btw, I think you should probably put what you wrote in the oppo 83se thread, lol.

Note that the really busy 83SE audio thread is entitled "Official BDP-83SE Analog Audio Discussion Only Thread" and is inherently biased in the analog direction. I have posted my understanding of the situation there, elsewhere and, of course, in my column. Some people see things differently.

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post #164 of 354 Old 04-06-2010, 07:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnnycloud View Post

I am trying to decide between this sony and the oppo 83se for my cd player.

Do you not have a player now that plays CDs? Just because you may have a DVD/BD player doesn't mean you really need a stand alone CD player.
If you don't have a BD player, then by all means, get that Oppo 83.


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In the case of the oppo they say ...

Yes, there are those,
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post #165 of 354 Old 04-06-2010, 09:03 PM
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I am currently using the Ps3 as my cd player.
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post #166 of 354 Old 04-06-2010, 09:30 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Johnnycloud View Post

I am currently using the Ps3 as my cd player.

Use that for your CD music source. It's a great unit and you don't need to spend money on another CDP. Don't listen to those who say otherwise about sound quality. They don't have a proof.
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post #167 of 354 Old 04-07-2010, 08:45 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnnycloud View Post

I am currently using the Ps3 as my cd player.

Can't speak to the Oppo but I like the Sony's ability to use the HDMI. I also have the optical hooked up on another input but don't often use it. If you were ever to decide you wanted to try SACD a CD player with that ability might be a handy addition. Most of what I listen to is red book cd's and I have been very impressed with the Sony but as I said I have no experience with the Oppo and expect it to be a fine unit as well.
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post #168 of 354 Old 04-07-2010, 02:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnnycloud View Post

I am currently using the Ps3 as my cd player.

I have a PS3, too. But, the problem with it is that it makes one rely on the D/A converter of the processor so you are never in a position to get better fidelity. But, if you have a killer sounding processor or receiver in its digital domain, its not a problem. For me the analog outs on the XA-5400 betters the digital feed to my Arcam AV9. In other words, the D/A converter on my XA-5400 betters the D/A converter on my processor.
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post #169 of 354 Old 04-07-2010, 03:34 PM
 
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But, the problem with it is that it makes one rely on the D/A converter of the processor so you are never in a position to get better fidelity.

That is not true.

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But, if you have a killer sounding processor or receiver in its digital domain, its not a problem. For me the analog outs on the XA-5400 betters the digital feed to my Arcam AV9. In other words, the D/A converter on my XA-5400 betters the D/A converter on my processor.

DAC technology is at a point where even cheap ones can provide the highest level sonic quality for our ears and that includes PS3.
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post #170 of 354 Old 04-07-2010, 03:52 PM
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Originally Posted by geekhd View Post

That is not true.


DAC technology is at a point where even cheap ones can provide the highest level sonic quality for our ears and that includes PS3.

oh? prove it. were waiting...
oh, and yes, what is your stake in this conversation again--do you have a 5400 or are you considering buying one?
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post #171 of 354 Old 04-07-2010, 04:00 PM
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Originally Posted by geekhd View Post

Use that for your CD music source. It's a great unit and you don't need to spend money on another CDP. Don't listen to those who say otherwise about sound quality. They don't have a proof.

hmmmm and you have a study to prove the ps3 isnt sonically different than the 5400-must have missed that one.
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post #172 of 354 Old 04-07-2010, 04:50 PM
 
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oh? prove it. were waiting...

Interesting, why haven't you asked to prove it when a poster puts out quote below before me? By the way, it's been proven and links have been posted in this section of forum. Look it up.
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In other words, the D/A converter on my XA-5400 betters the D/A converter on my processor.


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oh, and yes, what is your stake in this conversation again--do you have a 5400 or are you considering buying one?

Is there a problem with forum members replying in this thread?
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post #173 of 354 Old 04-07-2010, 04:55 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Denophile View Post

hmmmm and you have a study to prove the ps3 isnt sonically different than the 5400-must have missed that one.

My reply was VVV
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Use that for your CD music source. It's a great unit and you don't need to spend money on another CDP. Don't listen to those who say otherwise about sound quality.

Is there something you want to say about PS3 not being great for sound quality?
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post #174 of 354 Old 04-07-2010, 05:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnnycloud View Post

I am currently using the Ps3 as my cd player.

If it meets your need to play Cds, I don't see a reason to buy another one. If you need something with different flexibility, then that is a different story that only you can decide.

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Originally Posted by gbaby View Post

... so you are never in a position to get better fidelity. But, if you have a killer sounding processor or receiver in its digital domain, its not a problem. For me the analog outs on the XA-5400 betters the digital feed to my Arcam AV9. In other words, the D/A converter on my XA-5400 betters the D/A converter on my processor.

Sheer speculation.

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Originally Posted by Denophile View Post

oh? prove it. were waiting...
oh, and yes, what is your stake in this conversation again--do you have a 5400 or are you considering buying one?

This is an open forum, isn't it? Anyone can post comments, no???
Oh, perhaps you have something credible showing audible differences between those players? That should be a snap according to some

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hmmmm and you have a study to prove the ps3 isnt sonically different than the 5400-must have missed that one.

You don't have one to show a difference, I bet. So, I am not sure what you are after?
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post #175 of 354 Old 04-07-2010, 05:23 PM - Thread Starter
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[quote=geekhd;18449746] By the way, it's been proven and links have been posted in this section of forum. Look it up.

Hmm, I have a problem with using other threads on the same subject as "proof" when all they amount to is the same arguments and subjective opinions. The 1986 "dbt tests" touted as emperical evidence have been called questionable in the broader scheme of things as have the 1999 tests.

You would have more credibility if you actually had done the tests yourself instead of quoting the opinions of others you also don't know to try and make your point. It's fine to have your opinion but truth be told it's all it is just as what I have said in my earlier posts are my opinions. At least I have the equipment I commented on.
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post #176 of 354 Old 04-07-2010, 05:51 PM
 
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Hmm, I have a problem with using other threads on the same subject as "proof" when all they amount to is the same arguments and subjective opinions. The 1986 "dbt tests" touted as emperical evidence have been called questionable in the broader scheme of things as have the 1999 tests.

Was there anything newer posted?

Quote:


You would have more credibility if you actually had done the tests yourself instead of quoting the opinions of others you also don't know to try and make your point.

I don't remember posting what tests I have or have not done. Maybe my memory is fading. Can you help me out by pointing it out? Thanks.

Quote:


It's fine to have your opinion but truth be told it's all it is just as what I have said in my earlier posts are my opinions. At least I have the equipment I commented on.

You mean you posted your opinion on it. Again, that's been responded by more than one member that opinion is good for self consumption of the one who holds it. To those looking for useful information on component's performance, it's not a viable substitute for objective data.
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post #177 of 354 Old 04-07-2010, 06:14 PM - Thread Starter
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[quote=geekhd;18449746] By the way, it's been proven and links have been posted in this section of forum. Look it up.

[quote=geekhd;18449991]To those looking for useful information on component's performance, it's not a viable substitute for objective data.

Quoting threads that are just a rehash of subjective opinions and claiming them to be "proof" is not a viable substitute for objective data either.
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post #178 of 354 Old 04-07-2010, 06:33 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Corybud View Post

Quoting threads that are just a rehash of subjective opinions and claiming them to be "proof" is not a viable substitute for objective data either.

You couldn't answer a single question I asked you. What's up with that? You would've been able to if you observe this section of the forum more.

FYI, here is a thread with a link on other DBT.

You should also do a DBT on CDPs to be a better informed poster.
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post #179 of 354 Old 04-08-2010, 07:06 AM - Thread Starter
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I was not aware that there was a question worth answering and now this repetitive subjective B.S. is all just boring.

I did my tests, explained how I did them and made it clear that anything I said was my opinion and people should draw their own conclusions. I am satisfied with the results.
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post #180 of 354 Old 04-08-2010, 07:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Corybud View Post

I was not aware that there was a question worth answering and now this repetitive subjective B.S. is all just boring.

I did my tests, explained how I did them and made it clear that anything I said was my opinion and people should draw their own conclusions. I am satisfied with the results.

Don't worry. The answer to my post in 168 shows a complete lack of understanding of audio. Remember, this is from the same person who claims to be an audiophile, but refuses to list ANY of his or her equipment. Unfortunatedly, this thread has been dumb down.
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