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post #1 of 52 Old 07-13-2010, 10:20 AM - Thread Starter
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So I've been getting into vinyl lately, and all I have is this boombox thing with a built it one. Not exactly the best. Theres a guy on craigslist selling a technics 1200mk2 that he used in djing. It's about $225, but maybe I could talk him down to $200. I really don't have that much money, but if it would really sound that much better. I don't want to spend that much money. Now what's the best I can get for the cheapest? I want it to sound pretty decent. Heres a couple I was looking at.
http://www.amazon.com/Technica-AT-LP...9040056&sr=1-1
http://www.amazon.com/Sony-PS-LX300U...9040056&sr=1-3
http://www.amazon.com/Pioneer-PL-990...9040056&sr=1-7
http://www.amazon.com/Sony-PSLX250H-...9040056&sr=1-8

Or should I just try garage sales and pawn shops and places like that? There was an older okyno at one place that was in a cabinet with a tape player all for $60, but he wouldn't separate it. Maybe eventually I could get him to. My setup is a yammy v363 to 2 old kenwood speakers that I need to upgrade, and a behringer ep1500, to a tht sub soon.
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post #2 of 52 Old 07-13-2010, 11:12 AM
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I don't think much of the cheap turntables that are available these days. Among other things, they track very heavy, and you can't upgrade the cartridge.

My suggestion would be to look on eBay for a Technics turntable that takes a p-mount cartridge. SL-BD20 and SL-BD22 were the most recent models. You can get a replacement cartridge at lpgear.com, and a new belt if necessary, and you'll have something competitive with entry-level high-end tables for less than half the price.

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post #3 of 52 Old 07-13-2010, 12:56 PM - Thread Starter
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I found a sl-bd22, on ebay. It comes with an otrofone cartridge too. Reading some stuff on the internet, it seems average. A lot of people seem to be saying to avoid technics too.The Pioneer PL-990 seems ok too. What do you think?
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post #4 of 52 Old 07-13-2010, 03:01 PM
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I already told you what I think. The Pioneer (and its Sony/AT/etc. clones) are very poor tables. The Technics you found is way better than a cheap turntable has any right to be—better speed control, lower noise, better/upgradable cartridge.

I suspect the people telling you to avoid Technics turntables have it in their heads that Technics makes DJ turntables, which are presumptively bad. That is wrong on all counts. At any rate, the 22 isn't a DJ table, it's a very good belt-drive for the price.

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post #5 of 52 Old 07-13-2010, 03:35 PM - Thread Starter
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I suppose I'll try and get it then
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post #6 of 52 Old 07-13-2010, 08:04 PM - Thread Starter
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Many people seem to be saying there is some sort of swooshing noise or something. It comes with an otrofone cartridge. Is that something I should be concerned about? Also does it have a preamp or something so I can connect it to the receiver?
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post #7 of 52 Old 07-13-2010, 09:49 PM
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The SL-BD22 is a good, late-model belt-drive turntable. It won't match the performance of vintage belt-drive turntables from (e.g.) Pioneer, Sansui, AR, or earlier Technics models... (or direct-drive models, IMO)... but it's still a good starting point.

The SL-BD22 does have the disadvantage of being a "p-mount" turntable, however. This is a disadvantage because p-mount cartridges are becoming increasingly harder to find -- only a very small number of new options remain, from Shure, Grado, and Ortofon (and maybe Stanton?). Replacement original-manufacturer stylii (needles) for older p-mount cartridges are also getting harder to find. Generic replacements can be found easily, but are poor choices for p-mount cartridges/turntables because they are often out-of-spec from the original stylii/needles and the p-mount turntables usually don't have the adjustments needed to account for this variance (cartridge alignment, counterweight, etc).

But p-mount turntables and cartridges are very easy to set up, as long as you're okay with the limited selection of currently-available p-mount cartridges and stylii.

So if simplicity of setup is a prime goal, consider a p-mount turntable such as a Technics SL-BD20, SL-BD22, SL-QD33, SL-QX300, etc. I'd go for one of the latter options, as they're direct-drive models with quartz-based speed control. But the belt-drive turntables are okay, too.

If cartridge and stylii/needle selection is a prime goal, however, then I'd suggest looking at standard-mount (1/2-inch mount) turnables. e.g. Technics SL-1200MK2, Audio Technica AT-PL120, etc. Or one of the innumerable vintage options, if you can ascertain that it's in good condition -- e.g. Technics SL-1300/1400/1500, lots of Pioneers, Kenwoods, JVC, Denon, etc. Any of these will get you much more choice in cartridges, and they'll offer more adjustment options to correct for cartridge alignment, tracking forces and anti-skate settings, etc.
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post #8 of 52 Old 07-14-2010, 07:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by computeruler View Post

So I've been getting into vinyl lately, and all I have is this boombox thing with a built it one. Not exactly the best. Theres a guy on craigslist selling a technics 1200mk2 that he used in djing. It's about $225, but maybe I could talk him down to $200. I really don't have that much money, but if it would really sound that much better. I don't want to spend that much money. Now what's the best I can get for the cheapest? I want it to sound pretty decent. Heres a couple I was looking at.
http://www.amazon.com/Technica-AT-LP...9040056&sr=1-1
http://www.amazon.com/Sony-PS-LX300U...9040056&sr=1-3
http://www.amazon.com/Pioneer-PL-990...9040056&sr=1-7
http://www.amazon.com/Sony-PSLX250H-...9040056&sr=1-8

Or should I just try garage sales and pawn shops and places like that? There was an older okyno at one place that was in a cabinet with a tape player all for $60, but he wouldn't separate it. Maybe eventually I could get him to. My setup is a yammy v363 to 2 old kenwood speakers that I need to upgrade, and a behringer ep1500, to a tht sub soon.

I will probably disappoint you, but I would not recommend to get into vinyl today. The only reason to have LP setup is if you are a collector or have large stash of old records. Good LP playback system does not come cheap, as it is high precision electromechanical device. You won't get sound much better than you can get from CD. Considering that you are computer savvy, just invest more time, effort and money into high resolution (24/96 PCM, DSD etc. ) and multichannel digital playback. You will get much more satisfying result from it.

By the way, you can find many LPs digitized into 24/96 PCM in the Internet (either as hi-res FLAC or DVDA/BD images). Transfer is usually done on high quality and expensive equipment. If you play them, you get better sound quality than from mediocre vinyl player you get at your price point.
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post #9 of 52 Old 07-14-2010, 07:52 AM
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The SL-BD22 does have the disadvantage of being a "p-mount" turntable, however. This is a disadvantage because p-mount cartridges are becoming increasingly harder to find

On the Internets, nothing is hard to find. Not a huge selection, but more than enough for anyone starting out. I think a blizzard of choices is the last thing a newbie needs.
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But p-mount turntables and cartridges are very easy to set up

Very true, and esp. important for beginners.

If you can't explain how it works, you can't say it doesn't.—The High-End Creed

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post #10 of 52 Old 07-14-2010, 07:54 AM
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I will probably disappoint you, but I would not recommend to get into vinyl today. The only reason to have LP setup is if you are a collector or have large stash of old records. Good LP playback system does not come cheap, as it is high precision electromechanical device. You won't get sound much better than you can get from CD. Considering that you are computer savvy, just invest more time, effort and money into high resolution (24/96 PCM, DSD etc. ) and multichannel digital playback. You will get much more satisfying result from it.

This packs a lot of bad information. As I've already said, you can get reasonable vinyl reproduction for very little money, if you know what to look for. The real waste of money is in hi-res digital. There's precious little software (unlike vinyl), and the sound quality of the medium is no better than CD.

If you can't explain how it works, you can't say it doesn't.—The High-End Creed

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post #11 of 52 Old 07-14-2010, 08:46 AM
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This packs a lot of bad information. As I've already said, you can get reasonable vinyl reproduction for very little money, if you know what to look for. The real waste of money is in hi-res digital. There's precious little software (unlike vinyl), and the sound quality of the medium is no better than CD.

Reasonable? Do you mean something like 128kbps MP3 quality? There is close to none NEW material available on LPs that does not exists in digital form. There is very little OLD material on LP that was not released in digital form either.

What really makes huge leap forward is 24/96, 5 or 7 channels digital recording. It technically exceeds capability of speakers to reproduce and human being to hear sound, thus eliminating any possible imperfections in the chain from microphone to the speaker. Multichannel reproduction for the first time permits to simulate experience of "been there".
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post #12 of 52 Old 07-14-2010, 09:11 AM
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Reasonable? Do you mean something like 128kbps MP3 quality?

No, I mean vinyl reproduction quality. Comparing quality across the D/A divide is meaningless, unless you want to do it on the technical level, in which case vinyl arguably comes in dead last.

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What really makes huge leap forward is 24/96

That's not a leap forward at all. It just uses extra bits to achieve the same result.

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Multichannel reproduction for the first time permits to simulate experience of "been there".

MC recording is at least a clear step forward.

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post #13 of 52 Old 07-14-2010, 10:27 AM
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No, I mean vinyl reproduction quality.

Cheap LP gear does to analog record the same what low bit rate compression does to digital record - make it unlistenable. And since vinyl player is not an electronic, but a mechanical device, quality does come for a price.
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post #14 of 52 Old 07-14-2010, 10:50 AM
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Cheap LP gear does to analog record the same what low bit rate compression does to digital record - make it unlistenable.

Given that the vast majority of turntables out there are what you would call cheap, and the vast majority of turntable owners are happy with them, this would be a decidedly minority view. And, with all due respect, it's a form of audiophile snobbery that doesn't serve the newbie audio hobbyist at all.

If you can't explain how it works, you can't say it doesn't.—The High-End Creed

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post #15 of 52 Old 07-14-2010, 11:09 AM
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Originally Posted by mcnarus View Post

Given that the vast majority of turntables out there are what you would call cheap, and the vast majority of turntable owners are happy with them, this would be a decidedly minority view. And, with all due respect, it's a form of audiophile snobbery that doesn't serve the newbie audio hobbyist at all.

Vast majority is happy listening MP3 via cheap ear buds. If we talk about hobby, then it's better choose right direction from the beginning, than get disappointed with poor results.
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post #16 of 52 Old 07-14-2010, 11:33 AM - Thread Starter
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I personally think vinyl just sounds different from mp3s. Like the drums and stuff just sounds better, I don't know. I like the sound though. And thats with a terrible thing built into a boombox lol. Iwas listening to some volbeat in 320kbps and the mp3 just didn't sound as good. Then I started listening to an eric clapton record, and the sound was amazing! So thanks for all the info so far. And what about a preamp? Should I be concerned about that if I buy an older turn table?
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post #17 of 52 Old 07-14-2010, 11:57 AM
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I personally think vinyl just sounds different from mp3s. Like the drums and stuff just sounds better, I don't know. I like the sound though. And thats with a terrible thing built into a boombox lol. So thanks for all the info so far. And what about a preamp? Should I be concerned about that if I buy an older turn table?

It does not matter old or new TT you get. You need preamp. It can be integrated into TT, separate unit or integrated into amplifier/receiver.
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post #18 of 52 Old 07-14-2010, 12:06 PM
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Then I started listening to an eric clapton record, and the sound was amazing!

If you like Eric Clapton you are lucky. Several of his records were released on DVD-Audio disks (like this one http://www.ecrater.com/p/7407252/eri...ng-riding-with). You can probably find ISO image on torrent trackers, and then if you like it, buy a physical copy.
You will see how good it is comparing with CD or vinyl versions.
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post #19 of 52 Old 07-14-2010, 12:29 PM
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Yes, you'll need a phono preamp, unless your receiver has an input labeled phono. Assuming your turntable doesn't have one built in (the Technics models do not), you can get one for $50 or a bit less here.

If you can't explain how it works, you can't say it doesn't.—The High-End Creed

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post #20 of 52 Old 07-14-2010, 12:32 PM - Thread Starter
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Nope, it doesn't. Ugh more money to spend. I guess its worth it. So I should get the "best" one? That would be the best one for the money?
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post #21 of 52 Old 07-14-2010, 12:33 PM - Thread Starter
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If you like Eric Clapton you are lucky. Several of his records were released on DVD-Audio disks (like this one http://www.ecrater.com/p/7407252/eri...ng-riding-with). You can probably find ISO image on torrent trackers, and then if you like it, buy a physical copy.
You will see how good it is comparing with CD or vinyl versions.

I have the slow hand one
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post #22 of 52 Old 07-14-2010, 12:40 PM
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Nope, it doesn't. Ugh more money to spend. I guess its worth it. So I should get the "best" one? That would be the best one for the money?

Best for the money? Then probably this one http://www.amazon.com/Cambridge-Outb.../dp/B00106JE1E
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post #23 of 52 Old 07-14-2010, 12:47 PM
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Nope, it doesn't. Ugh more money to spend. I guess its worth it. So I should get the "best" one? That would be the best one for the money?

Given the type of turntable you're looking at, you don't need to spend more than $50 on this. See the link I supplied above.

If you can't explain how it works, you can't say it doesn't.—The High-End Creed

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post #24 of 52 Old 07-14-2010, 12:53 PM
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I have the slow hand one

You can't try/buy trick with that one. It was released only on SACD http://www.amazon.com/Slowhand-Hybr-.../dp/B00064X3BI
But it is cheap enough to justify buying it without audition.

I seriously recommend you buy universal digital player first (like OPPO 980h http://cgi.ebay.com/Oppo-Digital-DV-...-/130408981745 ), and get into vinyl when you will have more money available for decent setup.
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post #25 of 52 Old 07-14-2010, 01:17 PM - Thread Starter
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Wait, so your saying that these dvd audio disks sound better or what? And also did you say slow hand was only released on these sacds? http://www.amazon.com/Slowhand-Eric-.../dp/B000SJZJPYAnd I can't find these sorts of things at garage sales and stuff either, so it would be expensive to buy them. And what I meant by the "best" one was the one from that link here: http://www.phonopreamps.com/tc750lcpp.html Like would that be the best I can get for the price ect.
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post #26 of 52 Old 07-14-2010, 01:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by computeruler View Post

Wait, so your saying that these dvd audio disks sound better or what? And also did you say slow hand was only released on these sacds? http://www.amazon.com/Slowhand-Eric-.../dp/B000SJZJPYAnd I can't find these sorts of things at garage sales and stuff either, so it would be expensive to buy them. And what I meant by the "best" one was the one from that link here: http://www.phonopreamps.com/tc750lcpp.html Like would that be the best I can get for the price ect.

Both DVD-Audio and SACD are high resolution multichannel media disks. Both are better than CD and vinyl usually by a large margin. You need a universal digital player to listen them. Most records released on DVD-A and SACD are also available on regular CD, but mastering is different and multichannel surround version is only available on that media. DVD-A disks can be copied (that is why their ISO images can be downloaded), but not SACD.
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post #27 of 52 Old 07-14-2010, 01:36 PM - Thread Starter
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I only have 2 channels, so surround sound doesn't really matter. And vinyl just has that sound that digital doesn't. And these sacds and dvd-as don't seem to be as popular either. Plus I already have a small vinyl collection.
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post #28 of 52 Old 07-14-2010, 01:43 PM
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You probably don't need the variable output, so you could go with the next model down.

Depending on your set-up, the variable output might be useful for digitizing vinyl.

If you can't explain how it works, you can't say it doesn't.—The High-End Creed

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post #29 of 52 Old 07-14-2010, 01:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by computeruler View Post

And vinyl just has that sound that digital doesn't.

Grove noise + cracks and pops?

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And these sacds and dvd-as don't seem to be as popular either.

You likely already know that hi-fi audio hobby is not that popular after all.
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post #30 of 52 Old 07-14-2010, 02:17 PM - Thread Starter
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Alright, thanks for the advice about the preamp. And crackles and pops are only from dust and stuff. If you properly clean them, there shouldn't be much of a problem with that.
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