Does Denon Link Really Matter? - Page 3 - AVS Forum
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post #61 of 81 Old 05-23-2012, 07:14 PM - Thread Starter
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^^+1

Yes, I still like playing with Dalis.

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post #62 of 81 Old 05-23-2012, 07:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nethawk View Post

Based on this thread and comments in the 4311 conversation I became interested in the DL3 approach at HD audio and found a used 2930 to pair with my 4311. I feel confident that everything is set up correctly - DL light is active on the 2930 and when playing source material both player and AVR display show Dlink (and no HDMI). However, when I unplug my HDMI cable from the 2930 audio stops. The player continues but there is no audio.

While I understand that DL4 and HDMI might be required together I'm not so sure with DL3. I'm hoping that someone with more expert knowledge than I can confirm that DL3 is in fact the transport, and perhaps despite this why HDMI is still playing a role in this configuration.

Thanks in advance.

I am using DL3 to pair up my 4310 and 3910 for audio discs without any problem. There is no video assigned to the input I'm using on the 4310. Now I also have an HDMI cable from the player to another input in the 4310; I use this to play DVDs now and then, or if I want to view the player's setup menu on the TV. The DL3 connection will work whether or not the HDMI cable is also plugged in, but I am never using both of these connections at the same time. Does this give you an idea of something to try?

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post #63 of 81 Old 05-23-2012, 09:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nethawk View Post

^^

Congrats! I (we?) look forward to feedback on your experience.

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Originally Posted by SoundofMind View Post

^^+1

Thanks! It's here! Posted in the DBT-4010UDCI thread earlier, initial set-up tonight w/ HDMI, coax and analog connections. DL to come next...very impressed with SQ already. WOW! Pat Metheny's Imaginary Day DVD-A 5.1, Joni Mitchell Court and Spark HDCD and Elton John & Dire Straits SACDs 5.1 all sound amazing with just the "usual" connections. Looking forward to the next step with DL. Will report back...thanks for your interest! Probably will have questions soon....
P.S had a "scare" with Elton SACD hoping it was just a disc error...dust,etc....player got "stuck" at 1:15-1:24 track 5. Cleaned disc hope that does the trick...
Edit: whew, that was the problem! False alarm...
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post #64 of 81 Old 05-27-2012, 07:52 PM
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Two lights...DL3...RBCD...1st try thanks to info on this thread. Getting ready to load some DVD-As and SACDs Mch and stereo...
Thanks!
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post #65 of 81 Old 05-27-2012, 10:03 PM
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DL4....3 lights! 1st attempt...had 3 lights, pressed play 3rd light went out had to eject disc, go back to set-up and switch BACK to DL3 (DBP-A100 menu) then reset to DL4 THEN loaded Blu-ray...3 lights came back...(not that it really matters??) now watching/listening to Peter Gabriel "New Blood" live concert w/orchestra in DTS-HD master audio via DL4...




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post #66 of 81 Old 05-28-2012, 12:04 PM
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Really enjoying the SQ of DL with my new toy (hooked up to AVR-4311). Don't want to "double-post" in 2 threads so I'll be over @ the DBP-4010UDCI thread. Does Denon Link really matter? My subjective opinion based on early listening is yes it does...very apparent with RBCD,SACD & DVD-A. Will try to do some level-matched listening/comparison...
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post #67 of 81 Old 05-28-2012, 12:54 PM
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What are you going to compare DL to?

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post #68 of 81 Old 05-28-2012, 01:01 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davidbarrickman View Post

My subjective opinion based on early listening is yes it does...very apparent with RBCD,SACD & DVD-A. Will try to do some level-matched listening/comparison...

Cool.

Yes, I still like playing with Dalis.

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post #69 of 81 Old 05-28-2012, 02:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pbarach View Post

What are you going to compare DL to?

Have thought about ordering an OPPO 93 or 95 for a 2nd room and to A/B. All I have now are various players from "my past". I have a Denon DVD-758 (aka DVD-1940) that will do hi-res DVD-A Mch and 2ch over HDMI. It SACD/DSD implementation is limited to MCh analog out...no HDMI. Have used it's coax dig out too at times.
No DL on this Denon model.
I have a Marantz UD-5005 (similar to Denon DBP-1611) that will do SACD as DSD bitstream or 88.2 kHz PCM. My new Denon DBP-A100(4010) does neither...DSD is output as 44.1/16 PCM over HDMI so DL3 or Mch analog are the best options here, with DL3 being IMO the superior.Using a Denon AVR-4310 and 4311, although I will be sending the 4310 to NJ soon (I think). Intermittent HD radio issue on my 4310 from day one...no NIC failure yet....
So to answer your original question (sorry) it would be my older Denon or the UD-5005...unless I decide to try to sell them and get an OPPO . I've had buyer's remorse over the Marantz, wish now I'd gone the OPPO 93 and/or DBP-A100/4010 route in the first place. No remorse with the new Denon/DL player...hope it stays that way.It did come w/5 yr warranty so that will help.
BTW thanks again to all who posted setup info and help for DL on this thread and other threads.
EDIT: just tried switching between AUTO (DL4), HDMI and EXT IN on 4311's input mode option and can compare all 3 on the fly from the DBP-A100.Wasn't sure I'd be able to do this quickly w/DL in the equation...so I'm able to compare DL4, reg HDMI without DL4's jitter reduction, and Mch analog out. Will try this with DL3 later...
EDIT: well with DL3 can only compare analog, digital coax and DL3 "on the fly", no audio output from HDMI out in this configuration. I'm thinking that's because DL4 is a clock thing w/ HDMI still used for the bitstream audio and DL3 carries it all with no involvement from HDMI...no simultaneous audio bitstream (using RBCD PCM to test) from HDMI and DL3 out.
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post #70 of 81 Old 06-12-2012, 03:11 PM
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After reading a number of posts from owners of DL equipped players I am intrigued by the thought of better SQ for CD, SACD and DVD-As. I'm not looking for anything with Bluray playback as I have a Oppo 83SE for that. I thought of picking up a 2930 or 3930 with DL 3. Seeing that I would be buying the Denon for DL use only would the 2930 be the better buy? Are there more current affordable DL 4 players or are they all over $2K?

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, watch it grow and my wallet shrink ;-).

 

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post #71 of 81 Old 06-12-2012, 04:23 PM - Thread Starter
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^I don't know about any other other DL4 models but there have been a coupla folks occasionally finding "killer deals" posting on the DBP4010 (MSRP 2K) or nearly identical A100 (MSRP 2.5K) on clearance but no exact details as to price, posting on the DBP4010 -you could x-post on that thread. You already have great DVD and BluRay capability in your beloved Oppo. So it would seem you really only need DL3 in an SACD-capable player so the 2930 is probably the lowest buy-in and should be of equal quality to any player irt DL3 music quality AFAIK. So if you've got room in the rack, that's likely to be the least expensive solution.

Yes, I still like playing with Dalis.

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post #72 of 81 Old 06-12-2012, 04:51 PM
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^^^ SoM,

Thanks for your thoughts smile.gif. I have room in my rack and I think the 2930 will be the route I will take for now. Then I can see what the future brings and maybe grab a 4010 when the prices drop a bit more.

Bill


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, watch it grow and my wallet shrink ;-).

 

Denon 4311 (in preamp mode), Parasound 2100, Boston Acoustics A7200 amp, Oppo BDP-103, Consonance CD120, Panasonic TC-P60GT50 plasma, Panamax 5100EX, Salk Song Towers, Song Center, ADS 300C (surrounds) and two Rythmik F12SEs.
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post #73 of 81 Old 06-12-2012, 05:56 PM
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Guys, for anyone who is interested please see listenup for the dbpa100. I picked one up to go with my 4311. Will


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post #74 of 81 Old 06-13-2012, 01:16 PM
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Well thanks to SoM I have a 2930 on the way smile.gif. I'm looking forward to playing SACDs with DL3 and comparing it to HDMI. Could be very interesting.

Bill


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, watch it grow and my wallet shrink ;-).

 

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post #75 of 81 Old 06-13-2012, 06:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Mac View Post

Well thanks to SoM I have a 2930 on the way smile.gif. I'm looking forward to playing SACDs with DL3 and comparing it to HDMI. Could be very interesting.
Bill

Nice, congrats Bill! I'm interested in hearing your impression once you get it up and running.

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post #76 of 81 Old 06-14-2012, 03:17 AM - Thread Starter
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^+1!

Yes, I still like playing with Dalis.

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post #77 of 81 Old 12-02-2012, 02:20 PM
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Hi everybody,
Oke, just bought a AVP 3D together with a 4010UD. Now I am playing around with the Dlink4. When I play a BlueRay it works fine (three lights) but when i'am playing a CD then the third light does not lightup. Is this how is should be.

Or do I have to switch the AVP and the 4010UD, to Dlink3. Or is the anti-jitter working without the light on?

Well, thx in advance

Alex
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post #78 of 81 Old 12-02-2012, 03:07 PM - Thread Starter
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^Congrats on some nice gear. Yes, the third light comes on only for BluRay. Jitter reduction is working with any # of lights on and the processor should indicate DenonLink input as well. No, leave the processor set on DL4 and all lesser DL modes remain active.

Yes, I still like playing with Dalis.

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post #79 of 81 Old 12-02-2012, 04:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundofMind View Post

^Congrats on some nice gear. Yes, the third light comes on only for BluRay. Jitter reduction is working with any # of lights on and the processor should indicate DenonLink input as well. No, leave the processor set on DL4 and all lesser DL modes remain active.
I have the Dlink indicator light up on the AVP, but when the third blue light comes on the 4020UD the Dlink indicator on the AVP goes off. Now the moment I play a CD, like you said the third light on the 4010UD stays off but the indicator on the AVP keeps burning.

Is this the way it should be?

Gr

Alex
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post #80 of 81 Old 12-02-2012, 06:02 PM - Thread Starter
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^That is true for my A100, it does not say DenonLink on the AVR FPD for BluRay, just 3 lights on the player. Two lights on the player and Denon link light on the AVR for CD, SACD. You could confirm in the AVP thread.

Yes, I still like playing with Dalis.

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post #81 of 81 Old 12-03-2012, 05:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alebonau View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kilian.ca View Post


What people obviously don't realize is dac jitter ie in a player is only one side of the coin. Dac jitter is only relevant when using the players analog outputs. If using the player as a digital transport, the jitter due to timing errors between transport and dac clocks improbably the largest source of error. Sure some dacs will try to re clock.

You missed the big fact that casts a giant shadow on this whole thread.

Jitter is the bogey man of digital audio. It's like a magic phrase that audio gear manufacturers whip out every time they need to make some more money. like the bogey man that hid under your bed when you were a wee little child, it actual significance in the real world is zero.

Here's your challenge: Find someone who did a DBT other reliable listening test showing that any of the equipment talked about in this thread actually has audible jitter. Hen's teeth.

Probably the best info we have about this is based on a publication of research that was done by Dolby Lab way back in 1998. They tested Jitter in all kinds of audio devices, Their conculsion:

"The influence of jitter in causing audible distortion was found to be less than anticipated by the authors, and less than that predicted by both the technical and consumer audio press. Jitter induced by the digital audio interface was not found to be an audible problem for any of the program material auditioned.
Quote:
Sure some dacs will try to re clock. But that's really like yelling at the horse after it's bolted.

False. One of the strong advantages of digital is that digital signals that are even horribly mangled by waveform distortion and timing errors can be made bright, shiny and new by buffering and reclocking. IOW the horse can run away, we can send a good man after it, bring it back, brush it down and feed it, work it out on the track a little and its the same great race horse it was before it bolted. Just hope it doesn't go over a cliff!
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