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post #121 of 442 Old 02-01-2012, 12:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson View Post

Since most of burn-in is, imho, neural adaptation, it may be very different for you. It was for me.

Uhh Ohh!Before this gets out of hand I'll only say this and no more! If a thing exist in this physical world of ours governed by pre-established rules (Principals). It is then subjected to conform to stresses ( heat, cold, current flow and the like) and the conditions of its environment and finds a way to adapt I.E settle in or burn-in. To make it simple I'll bet that there has been some pairs of shoes you bought that hurt your feet and caused pain. Now either the shoe physically adapted to your feet ( conformed) or in your case your neural adaptation somehow missed out on the entire process( or ignored) of the shoe conforming to your feet? Neural adaptation is indeed part of the process ( its your personal measuring device) But just a part

Wow that was deep
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post #122 of 442 Old 02-01-2012, 12:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audiofan1 View Post


Uhh Ohh!Before this gets out of hand I'll only say this and no more! If a thing exist in this physical world of ours governed by pre-established rules (Principals). It is then subjected to conform to stresses ( heat, cold, current flow and the like) and the conditions of its environment and finds a way to adapt I.E settle in or burn-in. To make it simple I'll bet that there has been some pairs of shoes you bought that hurt your feet and caused pain. Now either the shoe physically adapted to your feet ( conformed) or in your case your neural adaptation somehow missed out on the entire process( or ignored) of the shoe conforming to your feet? Neural adaptation is indeed part of the process ( its your personal measuring device) But just a part

Wow that was deep


VERY deep indeed!

Manendra

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who hate the Klan
Most of us hate anything that
we don't understand"

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post #123 of 442 Old 02-01-2012, 01:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audiofan1 View Post

Uhh Ohh!Before this gets out of hand I'll only say this and no more! If a thing exist in this physical world of ours governed by pre-established rules (Principals). It is then subjected to conform to stresses ( heat, cold, current flow and the like) and the conditions of its environment and finds a way to adapt I.E settle in or burn-in. To make it simple I'll bet that there has been some pairs of shoes you bought that hurt your feet and caused pain. Now either the shoe physically adapted to your feet ( conformed) or in your case your neural adaptation somehow missed out on the entire process( or ignored) of the shoe conforming to your feet? Neural adaptation is indeed part of the process ( its your personal measuring device) But just a part

Wow that was deep

Not so deep. Applies to shoes. Not to silverware. Obviously, not universal.

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post #124 of 442 Old 02-01-2012, 02:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson View Post

Not so deep. Applies to shoes. Not to silverware. Obviously, not universal.

Simple logic, but deep too.
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post #125 of 442 Old 02-01-2012, 02:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson View Post

Not so deep. Applies to shoes. Not to silverware. Obviously, not universal.

Not to metals Uhh! there's whats called a refining process heating and cooling ( pulsing and contracting) to extract impurities to give strength) Nice try though!
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post #126 of 442 Old 02-26-2012, 03:51 PM
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Too bad there was no direct comparison to the Ayre C5xe/MP in there.

I have the Ayre and just ordered the BDP-95, so I will see for myself...lol.




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Not true.
http://www.stereophile.com/content/m...nd-50-page-2-0

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post #127 of 442 Old 02-26-2012, 04:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audiofan1 View Post

Not to metals Uhh! there's whats called a refining process heating and cooling ( pulsing and contracting) to extract impurities to give strength) Nice try though!

Do you do that at home?

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post #128 of 442 Old 02-26-2012, 04:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by commsysman View Post

Too bad there was no direct comparison to the Ayre C5xe/MP in there.

Do you mean the D5? The report was in my MCH column.

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post #129 of 442 Old 02-28-2012, 10:32 AM
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What I said; C5.



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Do you mean the D5? The report was in my MCH column.

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post #130 of 442 Old 02-28-2012, 10:47 AM
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The C5 is a two channel device, though, and I would guess it would not be a major consideration for a column/review devoted to MCH music and gear.
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post #131 of 442 Old 02-28-2012, 11:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson View Post

Do you do that at home?

Only when the kids are gone
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post #132 of 442 Old 02-28-2012, 04:42 PM
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Hello Kal;

Well, I got my BDP-95 yesterday, and I have all 3 units hooked up through their balanced XLR lines to my AR LS-26 preamp and Bryston amp. The big shoot-out commences!

My wife and I have been furiously doing A/B/C comparisons, but the fact of the matter is that it only took us about 10 minutes to decide how obvious it was that the BDP-95 was far superior to the Sony 5400 for CDs. I don't think break-in can make this much better; it is too damn good now.

We started off with the OPUS3 Test Disc #1, which we have both heard a hundred times, and it was obvious that we were hearing a whole new level of sound quality. The clarity of the bass was very striking on both several string bass recordings and organs, but the dynamics seemed to be expanded also, and everything was so much clearer that the imaging became very good, which was not so good with the Sony. The vocals were excellent.

We then went to the Hary Janos Suite on the old Minneapolis Orchestra Mercury CD. The clarity of the massed kettledrums on the last 2 tracks was so good that it was like being in Disney Hall hearing the orchestra live in LA. It was a distorted muddle with the Sony (a bit better with the Ayre). The cimbalom was also much clearer in many parts of the score. Major improvement throughout.

An interesting thing was the Impressions doing "Gypsy Woman". With the OPPO there was so much semi-random bass thumping, apparently due to the singers bumping repeatedly against the microphones/stand, that we had to turn off the subwoofer and listen with the Image T6 speakers alone. It never came through all that much with the other two players. There was something there with the others, but it was not that obvious what it was, or so much of an issue.

I could go on and on with the comparisons we did, but the bottom line is that we decided that the tentative rating we give the OPPO is a 9.7, with the Ayre C5xe/MP a 9.1 and the Sony 5400 a 8.5 ( 10 being the real thing). We even briefly tried the 13-year-old Sony SCD-777ES, but quickly dismissed that as not worth listening to at all (a 7.0 rating, maybe).

You guys at Stereophile might want to think about knocking the 5400 down from A+ to just A...lol.

We also did some SACD comparisons, with the first one being Horowitz playing the Chopin Sonata #2 on Columbia from 1962. Once again, the realism of the piano and the dynamics were unprecedented using the OPPO. The improvement with all SACDs was on the same order as with CDs.

If there is ANYTHING that sounds as good as the BDP-95 with CDs and SACDs, I have yet to hear it.

I WAS NOT expecting this level of performance. I thought it might edge the Sony and be almost on a par with the Ayre, but it pretty much blows them both out of the water.

This is pretty amazing audio performance for only $1000. I hope the video performance is equally impressive.




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Do you mean the D5? The report was in my MCH column.

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post #133 of 442 Old 02-28-2012, 05:43 PM
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I am glad that you are happy with it. Our rating is based on more than just the stereo analog outputs.

Kal Rubinson

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http://www.stereophile.com/category/music-round

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post #134 of 442 Old 02-28-2012, 07:10 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by commsysman View Post

Well, I got my BDP-95 yesterday, and I have all 3 units hooked up through their balanced XLR lines to my AR LS-26 preamp and Bryston amp. The big shoot-out commences!

My wife and I have been furiously doing A/B/C comparisons, but the fact of the matter is that it only took us about 10 minutes to decide how obvious it was that the BDP-95 was far superior to the Sony 5400 for CDs. I don't think break-in can make this much better; it is too damn good now.

We started off with the OPUS3 Test Disc #1, which we have both heard a hundred times, and it was obvious that we were hearing a whole new level of sound quality. The clarity of the bass was very striking on both several string bass recordings and organs, but the dynamics seemed to be expanded also, and everything was so much clearer that the imaging became very good, which was not so good with the Sony. The vocals were excellent.

We then went to the Hary Janos Suite on the old Minneapolis Orchestra Mercury CD. The clarity of the massed kettledrums on the last 2 tracks was so good that it was like being in Disney Hall hearing the orchestra live in LA. It was a distorted muddle with the Sony (a bit better with the Ayre). The cimbalom was also much clearer in many parts of the score. Major improvement throughout.

An interesting thing was the Impressions doing "Gypsy Woman". With the OPPO there was so much semi-random bass thumping, apparently due to the singers bumping repeatedly against the microphones/stand, that we had to turn off the subwoofer and listen with the Image T6 speakers alone. It never came through all that much with the other two players. There was something there with the others, but it was not that obvious what it was, or so much of an issue.

I could go on and on with the comparisons we did, but the bottom line is that we decided that the tentative rating we give the OPPO is a 9.7, with the Ayre C5xe/MP a 9.1 and the Sony 5400 a 8.5 ( 10 being the real thing). We even briefly tried the 13-year-old Sony SCD-777ES, but quickly dismissed that as not worth listening to at all (a 7.0 rating, maybe).

You guys at Stereophile might want to think about knocking the 5400 down from A+ to just A...lol.

We also did some SACD comparisons, with the first one being Horowitz playing the Chopin Sonata #2 on Columbia from 1962. Once again, the realism of the piano and the dynamics were unprecedented using the OPPO. The improvement with all SACDs was on the same order as with CDs.

If there is ANYTHING that sounds as good as the BDP-95 with CDs and SACDs, I have yet to hear it.

I WAS NOT expecting this level of performance. I thought it might edge the Sony and be almost on a par with the Ayre, but it pretty much blows them both out of the water.

This is pretty amazing audio performance for only $1000. I hope the video performance is equally impressive.

Was it a level matched A/B/C comparison?
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post #135 of 442 Old 02-28-2012, 11:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by commsysman View Post

Hello Kal;

Well, I got my BDP-95 yesterday, and I have all 3 units hooked up through their balanced XLR lines to my AR LS-26 preamp and Bryston amp. The big shoot-out commences!

My wife and I have been furiously doing A/B/C comparisons, but the fact of the matter is that it only took us about 10 minutes to decide how obvious it was that the BDP-95 was far superior to the Sony 5400 for CDs. I don't think break-in can make this much better; it is too damn good now.

We started off with the OPUS3 Test Disc #1, which we have both heard a hundred times, and it was obvious that we were hearing a whole new level of sound quality. The clarity of the bass was very striking on both several string bass recordings and organs, but the dynamics seemed to be expanded also, and everything was so much clearer that the imaging became very good, which was not so good with the Sony. The vocals were excellent.

We then went to the Hary Janos Suite on the old Minneapolis Orchestra Mercury CD. The clarity of the massed kettledrums on the last 2 tracks was so good that it was like being in Disney Hall hearing the orchestra live in LA. It was a distorted muddle with the Sony (a bit better with the Ayre). The cimbalom was also much clearer in many parts of the score. Major improvement throughout.

An interesting thing was the Impressions doing "Gypsy Woman". With the OPPO there was so much semi-random bass thumping, apparently due to the singers bumping repeatedly against the microphones/stand, that we had to turn off the subwoofer and listen with the Image T6 speakers alone. It never came through all that much with the other two players. There was something there with the others, but it was not that obvious what it was, or so much of an issue.

I could go on and on with the comparisons we did, but the bottom line is that we decided that the tentative rating we give the OPPO is a 9.7, with the Ayre C5xe/MP a 9.1 and the Sony 5400 a 8.5 ( 10 being the real thing). We even briefly tried the 13-year-old Sony SCD-777ES, but quickly dismissed that as not worth listening to at all (a 7.0 rating, maybe).

You guys at Stereophile might want to think about knocking the 5400 down from A+ to just A...lol.

We also did some SACD comparisons, with the first one being Horowitz playing the Chopin Sonata #2 on Columbia from 1962. Once again, the realism of the piano and the dynamics were unprecedented using the OPPO. The improvement with all SACDs was on the same order as with CDs.

If there is ANYTHING that sounds as good as the BDP-95 with CDs and SACDs, I have yet to hear it.

I WAS NOT expecting this level of performance. I thought it might edge the Sony and be almost on a par with the Ayre, but it pretty much blows them both out of the water.

This is pretty amazing audio performance for only $1000. I hope the video performance is equally impressive.

As I said earlier anything it touches is pure reference ( SOTA video dac as well), the 95 has got the Midas touch
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post #136 of 442 Old 02-29-2012, 06:33 AM
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Yes.

I have one of the old Radio Shack SPL meters, and we matched the levels using the Stereophile test disc tones.

My LS-26 preamp has a large readout of the volume setting, and has 102 steps, so it was easy to determine the settings required and the differential between units.

I have a question for anyone out there.

There is one odd thing; when viewing photo discs, the resolution is absolutely horrible. Angled lines, like pitched roofs, look like sawtooths, and everything is just completely out of focus. The manual has a page on viewing photo discs, but really says nothing about settings at all. Video plays fine.

My old Samsung Bluray player gives excellent picture quality on the same discs with no tweaking or adjustment.

Any ideas? I don't have a clue why, or what I might want to adjust (except maybe changing from 1080p in the setup menu).




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Was it a level matched A/B/C comparison?

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post #137 of 442 Old 02-29-2012, 08:54 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by commsysman View Post

Yes.

I have one of the old Radio Shack SPL meters, and we matched the levels using the Stereophile test disc tones.

My LS-26 preamp has a large readout of the volume setting, and has 102 steps, so it was easy to determine the settings required and the differential between units.

That will not allow you to match levels at precise enough level.
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post #138 of 442 Old 02-29-2012, 09:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by diomania View Post

That will not allow you to match levels at precise enough level.


What affordable equipment, then, would allow levels to be precisely matched?

Manendra

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who hate the Klan
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post #139 of 442 Old 02-29-2012, 09:44 PM
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Is there a general consensus so far as to which player is better? Kal seemed to prefer the Oppo 95 over the Sony is his initial review of the Oppo.

Since the release of the 95, I wonder whether there is anyone who has compared the two and preferred the Sony over the 95 (for RBCD and/or SACD performance)

Manendra

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post #140 of 442 Old 03-01-2012, 05:52 AM
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That doesn't make sense. Using a SPL meter and repeatable test tones is an excellent method for matching levels, as any qualified audio engineer will tell you. They have been doing it that way for many years, and everyone except you is satisfied that it does the job very well.

In any case, I am perfectly satisfied that it does the job well, and is an accepted and proven method among those who are highly qualified in the field.


P.S.- Like-new Sony 5400 available; send PM if interested


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That will not allow you to match levels at precise enough level.

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post #141 of 442 Old 03-01-2012, 06:01 AM
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I worked with the techs at OPPO, and sent them some of the picture files from one of my photo CDs, and they said that they looked great on the new unit they have there when they burned them onto a disc.

They concluded that my unit is defective, since it cannot display the exact same files properly, and are shipping a new unit to replace it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by commsysman View Post


...when viewing photo discs, the resolution is absolutely horrible. Angled lines, like pitched roofs, look like sawtooths, and everything is just completely out of focus. The manual has a page on viewing photo discs, but really says nothing about settings at all. Video plays fine.

My old Samsung Bluray player gives excellent picture quality on the same discs with no tweaking or adjustment.

Any ideas? I don't have a clue why, or what I might want to adjust (except maybe changing from 1080p in the setup menu).

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post #142 of 442 Old 03-01-2012, 08:55 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by commsysman View Post

That doesn't make sense. Using a SPL meter and repeatable test tones is an excellent method for matching levels,

Not when you do A/B (or /C) for sound difference.
Quote:


as any qualified audio engineer will tell you.

No, they won't.
Quote:


They have been doing it that way for many years, and everyone except you is satisfied that it does the job very well.

This is simply false.
Quote:


In any case, I am perfectly satisfied that it does the job well, and is an accepted and proven method among those who are highly qualified in the field.

Radio Shack SPL meter isn't precise enough to be used for this purpose. I thought you would know already.
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post #143 of 442 Old 03-01-2012, 09:40 AM
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@dio...

good luck with that...

- chris

 

my build thread - updated 8-20-12 - new seating installed and projector isolation solution

 

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1332917/ccotenj-finally-gets-a-projector

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post #144 of 442 Old 03-01-2012, 09:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mlknez View Post

Rip your SACD and DVD-A to Flac and rerip your wma files if you want, otherwise just keep them as wma and stream away.

Is it possible to rip multi-channel SACD and DVD-A so that it plays back multi-channel? I've just completed archiving all my CD's and want to do the same, converting all of my multi-channel sources for both 2-channel and multi-channel listening.

Tools or software necessary?

Your guidance would be most appreciated.

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post #145 of 442 Old 03-01-2012, 12:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by commsysman View Post

I worked with the techs at OPPO, and sent them some of the picture files from one of my photo CDs, and they said that they looked great on the new unit they have there when they burned them onto a disc.

They concluded that my unit is defective, since it cannot display the exact same files properly, and are shipping a new unit to replace it.

funny, I was experimenting around with jpeg images on my new (living room) Denon AVR-2112CI/Oppo BDP-93 set-up. I streamed a few images via-network drive directly to the Denon AVR and they exhibited a similair characteristic as you explained above. However when I, instead, streamed directly to the Oppo they looked fine? I think it's a formatting issue that the Denon had a problem with, maybe there are settings (on the Denon) that could fix that?

All this Oppo BDP-95 vs. Sony SCD-XA5400ES has got me excited to finish setting-up my theater room so I can hear for myself. I'm still completing room re-modeling tasks.
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post #146 of 442 Old 03-01-2012, 01:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nethawk View Post

Is it possible to rip multi-channel SACD and DVD-A so that it plays back multi-channel? I've just completed archiving all my CD's and want to do the same, converting all of my multi-channel sources for both 2-channel and multi-channel listening.

Tools or software necessary?

Your guidance would be most appreciated.

For DVD-Audio, you can use dvd audio explorer or dvd audio extractor. For SACD you need to do a little more work, as an original PS3 is required...
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post #147 of 442 Old 03-01-2012, 03:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WestCoastD View Post

All this Oppo BDP-95 vs. Sony SCD-XA5400ES has got me excited to finish setting-up my theater room so I can hear for myself. I'm still completing room re-modeling tasks.

Don't get too excited. The differences are very small, imho.

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post #148 of 442 Old 03-01-2012, 05:35 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by diomania View Post

Not when you do A/B (or /C) for sound difference.

No, they won't.

This is simply false.

Radio Shack SPL meter isn't precise enough to be used for this purpose. I thought you would know already.

Would you mind elebrating the details procedures and equipment to be used for matching the sound level from two players? Assume both players are conncted to two different inputs on the same pre-amp and then the same amps and the speakers.

I am planning to get an Oppo-95 and will do A/B comparasion with the 5400 that I already have.

Thanks in advance.
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post #149 of 442 Old 03-01-2012, 06:22 PM
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^^^

with a dmm at the speaker posts... using test tones...

- chris

 

my build thread - updated 8-20-12 - new seating installed and projector isolation solution

 

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1332917/ccotenj-finally-gets-a-projector

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post #150 of 442 Old 03-01-2012, 06:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mlknez View Post

For DVD-Audio, you can use dvd audio explorer or dvd audio extractor. For SACD you need to do a little more work, as an original PS3 is required...

Thanks for the help. This gets me halfway there. I just sold a Denon blu-ray universal player. Had I known that there are so few drives out that support these formats I would have kept it. Ripping them seemed the natural choice.

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