The final word on CD players - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 21 Old 01-27-2012, 07:22 AM - Thread Starter
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With the CD almost dead I though I'd post the definative summation of all the "which sounds better and why" threads we have had over the years.

So in referance to testing I say, I have never listened to music double blind so although I think these tests are invaluable to the engineer I don't think they are the ultimate arbiter for the music enthusiast.

The only distinction we need to make here is that those that say one CD player sounds better than another qualify that statement with the words "to me."

So I agree with you that not everything is equally valid yet I agree with the poster you resonded to because everything is relative.

Personally I want to know the test results of various players when I go to purchase a CD player but alow myself to let the price and brand image color the sound to me.

I simply cannot be happy listening to music through a Play Station regardless of the specs. It would color the sound to me in a very negative way.

Now if I ever decide to start listening to music completely blind then I would base my buying decision solely on a double blind test.

What you got back home, little sister, to play your fuzzy warbles on? I bet you got little save pitiful, portable picnic players. Come with uncle and hear all proper! Hear angel trumpets and devil trombones. You are invited.
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post #2 of 21 Old 01-30-2012, 10:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eljr View Post

I simply cannot be happy listening to music through a Play Station regardless of the specs. It would color the sound to me in a very negative way.

Is it the look of the console? I kind of agree that while the PS3 and other consoles look fine as game consoles, they're so against the grain lookswise compared to other components.

Would you feel the same way about a blu-ray player that looks like most CD players, though?

Don't believe everything on the Interwebz! A duck's quack DOES echo!
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post #3 of 21 Old 01-30-2012, 11:55 AM
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You are making a joke, right?
You do realize a blind/double blind test doesn't mean listening with your eyes covered, right?
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post #4 of 21 Old 02-01-2012, 08:57 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eljr View Post

So in referance to testing I say, I have never listened to music double blind so although I think these tests are invaluable to the engineer I don't think they are the ultimate arbiter for the music enthusiast.

The only distinction we need to make here is that those that say one CD player sounds better than another qualify that statement with the words "to me."

So I agree with you that not everything is equally valid yet I agree with the poster you resonded to because everything is relative.

There can be no conflict if an audiophile says they subjectively prefer A over B, for whatever non-objective reason. None.
The only possibility for conflict to arise, is if objective reasoning is given as to why. It cost $7000 and thus has "better parts". It uses the latest XDAC with "10x lower distortion" or "10x lower jitter", etc, etc. Your player is cheap, uses this XDAC and thus inferior and you are deaf, etc, etc.

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Originally Posted by eljr View Post

Personally I want to know the test results of various players when I go to purchase a CD player but alow myself to let the price and brand image color the sound to me.

Exactly. No one listens blind at home in everyday casual listening. So all of the above does affect the "sound". Be cognizant of that fact, stay away from objective reasoning as to why you prefer A over B, no conflict. Make it clear to all when you tell them that A "sounds" better than B to you, all of the above affecting the "sound" is involved and is thus purely your subjective perception, not an unerring representation of reality, but rather, subject to human perceptual error.

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Originally Posted by eljr View Post

I simply cannot be happy listening to music through a Play Station regardless of the specs. It would color the sound to me in a very negative way.

The PS is regarded by some for its sound, not specs.

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Originally Posted by eljr View Post

Now if I ever decide to start listening to music completely blind then I would base my buying decision solely on a double blind test.

None of us are immune to bias (well, except "audiophiles", who have transcended humanity). Some of us are simply far more affected by it than others. And some of us are cognizant of these facts, others ignorant or simply in self denial (full blown audiophile disorder). YMMV.

cheers,

AJ
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post #5 of 21 Old 02-04-2012, 09:13 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AJinFLA View Post

None of us are immune to bias (well, except "audiophiles", who have transcended humanity). Some of us are simply far more affected by it than others. And some of us are cognizant of these facts, others ignorant or simply in self denial (full blown audiophile disorder).

LMAO

But I do have a slight case of audiophile disorder. I am happy with it.

What you got back home, little sister, to play your fuzzy warbles on? I bet you got little save pitiful, portable picnic players. Come with uncle and hear all proper! Hear angel trumpets and devil trombones. You are invited.
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post #6 of 21 Old 02-04-2012, 12:15 PM
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I'm not quite sure why it would be considered a disorder to get pleasure from well-reproduced music. I certainly do, and I have no intention of admitting that it is any kind of disorder.

As far as the reproducing equipment is concerned, I simply listen and decide if the sounds I hear are close enough to the sound of a live performance to satisfy me and make listening a pleasurable experience.

If not, then I may seek out different equipment and decide if it sounds better to me than what I already have. If it does, and the price is within my means, then I may purchase it and use it.

If any of that meets someone's definition of an "audiophile", then that is their frame of reference, not mine. Seeking a means to personal pleasure seems like a very ordinary mode of behavior to me.

To put labels on people and then try to ridicule them based on that labeling does not seem like mature behavior to me, so I will just do my best to ignore it.






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Originally Posted by eljr View Post

LMAO

But I do have a slight case of audiophile disorder. I am happy with it.

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post #7 of 21 Old 02-06-2012, 10:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David James View Post

You are making a joke, right?
You do realize a blind/double blind test doesn't mean listening with your eyes covered, right?

LOL. So, if he is visually blind and listens to a double-blind test, he is doubly blinded?

A lie can travel halfway around the world before the truth gets its shoes on. -- Mark Twain
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post #8 of 21 Old 02-07-2012, 07:04 PM
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If you worry about sound, then start with your speakers and your room, they are far more responsible for the actual sound of the entire system tehn any electronics and cableing combined.

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post #9 of 21 Old 02-07-2012, 08:13 PM
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Originally Posted by thehun View Post

If you worry about sound, then start with your speakers and your room, they are far more responsible for the actual sound of the entire system tehn any electronics and cableing combined.

I just finished a pair of Three Pi kits from Wayne Parnham (he's in the DIY speaker forum). They make the old Harmon Kardon towers they replaced seem mundane. I managed to have an A/V room that is a rectangle about 14' by 20' which has truly symmetrical features. No intrusive doors or structures.
I think it makes a huge difference.

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post #10 of 21 Old 02-08-2012, 12:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Floydster View Post

I just finished a pair of Three Pi kits from Wayne Parnham (he's in the DIY speaker forum). They make the old Harmon Kardon towers they replaced seem mundane. I managed to have an A/V room that is a rectangle about 14' by 20' which has truly symmetrical features. No intrusive doors or structures.
I think it makes a huge difference.

Floyd

Sure it does, so is how the speakers are located in the room in relations to the listener, the shape of the room, the furniture, the texture of the wall and ceiling all contribute to the final sound of the system/room and not always favorably. People are too lazy to to investigate these issues and think they can just change a cable or the source device and voila all is good.
Congrats on your new speakers.

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post #11 of 21 Old 02-08-2012, 01:06 AM
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Originally Posted by thehun View Post

Sure it does, so is how the speakers are located in the room in relations to the listener, the shape of the room, the furniture, the texture of the wall and ceiling all contribute to the final sound of the system/room and not always favorably. People are too lazy to to investigate these issues and think they can just change a cable or the source device and voila all is good.
Congrats on your new speakers.

I agree totally. Reflective surfaces like windows, and ones that absorb like curtains. Here is a question that you might be able to answer for me:
Do you know of any material that is good at absorbing low bass frequencies that can radiate outward and disturb neighbors? Maybe something that could be placed in a wall. I've never seen any reference to something like that.

I love the Three Pi speakers. They have to be placed in corners at a 45 degree angle. They also require flanking subwoofers that are not too close to the Pi speakers. The idea is to distribute the bass evenly, since they form the third part of a three way system. Because the subs need to pick up around 110 Hz, they become directional and one won't do.

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A lie can travel halfway around the world before the truth gets its shoes on. -- Mark Twain
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post #12 of 21 Old 02-09-2012, 07:17 AM
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Have you tried this yet?


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post #13 of 21 Old 02-09-2012, 09:38 AM
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LOL! Can I get one with more tubes? How about an accompanying stone turntable?

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A lie can travel halfway around the world before the truth gets its shoes on. -- Mark Twain
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post #14 of 21 Old 02-09-2012, 01:03 PM
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Have you tried this yet?


Heh, reminds me of a TVRO company in the 1980s: Chicken Wire Antenna Products, or CWAP for short. Good ol' Chris Johnson. RIP.
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Have you tried this yet?


I just drool all over my keyboard 'cause I couldn't close my mouth from laughing
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post #16 of 21 Old 02-23-2012, 03:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulpa View Post

Is it the look of the console? I kind of agree that while the PS3 and other consoles look fine as game consoles, they're so against the grain lookswise compared to other components.

Would you feel the same way about a blu-ray player that looks like most CD players, though?

Come on. A game player sitting along side fine gear is an eye sore. Maybe a veil in the form of a curtain?

A lie can travel halfway around the world before the truth gets its shoes on. -- Mark Twain
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post #17 of 21 Old 02-24-2012, 08:19 PM
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LOL! Can I get one with more tubes? How about an accompanying stone turntable?

Yeah, I want one with the cool 50 lb stone platter too. It keeps the unwanted vibrational resonances down.

"Guns for show, knives for a pro..."
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post #18 of 21 Old 02-26-2012, 04:07 PM
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Actually, there used to be a turntable with a round granite platter years ago.

A poor guy made a mistake and bought the wrong model and took it home, and boy was he disappointed when he found his was plastic!

That will teach him to take things for granite.





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Yeah, I want one with the cool 50 lb stone platter too. It keeps the unwanted vibrational resonances down.

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post #19 of 21 Old 02-26-2012, 04:14 PM
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I'm sorry, but you can't have the last word on anything; my wife has an exclusive international concession on last words.


Quote:
Originally Posted by eljr View Post

With the CD almost dead I though I'd post the definative summation of all the "which sounds better and why" threads we have had over the years.

So in referance to testing I say, I have never listened to music double blind so although I think these tests are invaluable to the engineer I don't think they are the ultimate arbiter for the music enthusiast.

The only distinction we need to make here is that those that say one CD player sounds better than another qualify that statement with the words "to me."

So I agree with you that not everything is equally valid yet I agree with the poster you resonded to because everything is relative.

Personally I want to know the test results of various players when I go to purchase a CD player but alow myself to let the price and brand image color the sound to me.

I simply cannot be happy listening to music through a Play Station regardless of the specs. It would color the sound to me in a very negative way.

Now if I ever decide to start listening to music completely blind then I would base my buying decision solely on a double blind test.

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post #20 of 21 Old 02-26-2012, 05:33 PM
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Originally Posted by commsysman View Post

...

That will teach him to take things for granite.

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I'm sorry, but you can't have the last word on anything; my wife has an exclusive international concession on last words.

Oh, these are almost pricelss
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post #21 of 21 Old 02-26-2012, 08:45 PM
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Quote:


Actually, there used to be a turntable with a round granite platter years ago.

A poor guy made a mistake and bought the wrong model and took it home, and boy was he disappointed when he found his was plastic!

That will teach him to take things for granite

Was his name Fred Flintstone?

"Guns for show, knives for a pro..."
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