Understading Turntables Features auto vs manual - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 9 Old 04-13-2012, 10:45 PM - Thread Starter
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Hey all. Looking for some education on turntables...Why are most modern mid-fi and hi-fi TT's fully manual and almost all cheap ass low end TT's automatic? I am interested in knowing because I am looking for a nice mid grade TT to add to my system. I have been considering something form music hall, pro-ject, rega or auto-technica, but I think I would prefer an automatic TT, just for the convenience, and it seems that most anything worth buying new is manually operated.

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post #2 of 9 Old 04-14-2012, 07:25 AM
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I asked that question myself... The reason is really two fold...
1- most turntable companies are small and as such they don't have the resources to implement the needed electronics. They rather focus on better SQ than convience.

2- most high quality turntables use minimal cart force so the records last a long time... An automatic mechanism, does easily allow such small tracking force.
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post #3 of 9 Old 04-14-2012, 01:13 PM
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Budget mass market turntables are geared toward the late-middle-aged Boomer who just wants to hear his old vinyls again, and doesn't want to jump up right as the record side ends, because his knees aren't what they once were. That doesn't describe every potential customer, but you don't want to make a product that excludes a significant part of your potential customer base.

Smaller companies are geared toward the audiophile market, where there's a general disdain for automatic operation. Companies like Dual and Thorens made highly regarded automatic tables back in the day, but it's become accepted lore that a good automatic table is an oxymoron.

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post #4 of 9 Old 04-14-2012, 04:35 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcnarus View Post

Budget mass market turntables are geared toward the late-middle-aged Boomer who just wants to hear his old vinyls again, and doesn't want to jump up right as the record side ends, because his knees aren't what they once were. That doesn't describe every potential customer, but you don't want to make a product that excludes a significant part of your potential customer base.

Smaller companies are geared toward the audiophile market, where there's a general disdain for automatic operation. Companies like Dual and Thorens made highly regarded automatic tables back in the day, but it's become accepted lore that a good automatic table is an oxymoron.


Are there any automatic tables new on the market that are worth buying? I know, i know, I can already hear the "buy used comments", but there is just something about getting brand new gear....I have not ruled out used mind you, but would much prefer new. And am still in the research and learning stages.

I appreciate the comments guys. I just remember my dads high end turntable (dont remember the brand tho ) he bought in the early 80's was automatic and very expensive for the time. I just thought there might be something automatic worth buying new on the market today. After all, I like to partake in a few adult beverages when I listen to music and I am worried I may get a little bit "clumsy" handling the table. Plus I have close to 100 records that I would like to get some use out of.

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post #5 of 9 Old 04-14-2012, 05:26 PM
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denon dp300f is what you want. its a great turntable. it sounds to me you want an automatic. very rich, very vibrant. they are extremely nice to handle, i have seen them in person. with the exception of the needle id say its just as solid as any project debut 3. but needles, cartridges, all can be changed, and in all honesty are meant to be changed. all the stores are always sold out of the denon dp300f.


if you entertain a lot and play a lot of records with people over automatic is by far the way to go. here's why: are you going to be paying attention to when the record is over? no, you get lost in the atmosphere. the denon also has manual features for ease of use.

it sounds to me like you want an automatic. dont let words like "entry level" make you think they arent up to par. entry level is really $100 sony turntables, and if you love the warm vinyl sound over cd or sacd, you dont have to worry, the denon dp300f, as well as the project debut 3 and rega rp1 all sound better than any sacd player i ever heard, and i have heard a lot of them in some pretty good set ups. but again thats because i like vinyl.

if you just want a good turntable to play some old vinyl you have and want automatic get the denon dp300f. the dp300f has a built in phono stage.

if you want a good turntable to play and enjoy and listen to vinyl on a regular basis and want that nice warm sound that makes some people gag at the thought of sacd, go get a bellari tube pre amp and woooooooow will you be happy.

here is a link for the denon: http://www.needledoctor.com/Denon-DP...2&category=348
here is a link for the denon with upgraded cartridge: http://www.needledoctor.com/Denon-DP...=2&category=46
here is a link for the bellari pre amp: http://www.needledoctor.com/Bellari-...category=35445

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post #6 of 9 Old 04-14-2012, 06:00 PM
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i just want to add mcnarus and the other poster who said that really good turntables arent automatic do have validity.

but when your talking $300-$400 turntables the difference between automatic and manual is not gonna be monumental.

start spending $700 and up and yes there is a difference. but it sounds to me that your not quite ready to invest $1200+ on a turntable, $500+ on a preamp, and rebuy all your music on vinyl.

see i am in a boat where i have just enough vinyl, and buy enough vinyl to warrant a $1200 turntable, but also download digitally on itunes equally. what i did was pick a turntable i would be happy with for the rest of my life. meaning that if i could never upgrade or buy another turntable again, i wouldnt regret it. to me that turntable is a rega rp1 with upgrade kit or a pro-ject xpression.

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post #7 of 9 Old 04-14-2012, 06:34 PM
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one last thing.

if your like me and you buy a lot of second hand records, sometimes they arent in the greatest of shape, so go get yourself a grado prestige gold 1 cartridge. great cartridge for "staying in the groove"

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post #8 of 9 Old 04-15-2012, 08:32 AM
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Well back in the day when I had my black light and Hendrix poster I had an infamous BSR record changer. Could plop on about 5 scratched and dirty albums and listen for hours. Also does anyone remember the dual phono cart? A 45/78 cart on one side flip it over for 33's. Now those were Hi Tech days for TT's.
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post #9 of 9 Old 04-15-2012, 01:30 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by outlawskinnyd View Post

denon dp300f is what you want. its a great turntable. it sounds to me you want an automatic. very rich, very vibrant. they are extremely nice to handle, i have seen them in person. with the exception of the needle id say its just as solid as any project debut 3. but needles, cartridges, all can be changed, and in all honesty are meant to be changed. all the stores are always sold out of the denon dp300f.


if you entertain a lot and play a lot of records with people over automatic is by far the way to go. here's why: are you going to be paying attention to when the record is over? no, you get lost in the atmosphere. the denon also has manual features for ease of use.

it sounds to me like you want an automatic. dont let words like "entry level" make you think they arent up to par. entry level is really $100 sony turntables, and if you love the warm vinyl sound over cd or sacd, you dont have to worry, the denon dp300f, as well as the project debut 3 and rega rp1 all sound better than any sacd player i ever heard, and i have heard a lot of them in some pretty good set ups. but again thats because i like vinyl.

if you just want a good turntable to play some old vinyl you have and want automatic get the denon dp300f. the dp300f has a built in phono stage.

if you want a good turntable to play and enjoy and listen to vinyl on a regular basis and want that nice warm sound that makes some people gag at the thought of sacd, go get a bellari tube pre amp and woooooooow will you be happy.

here is a link for the denon: http://www.needledoctor.com/Denon-DP...2&category=348
here is a link for the denon with upgraded cartridge: http://www.needledoctor.com/Denon-DP...=2&category=46
here is a link for the bellari pre amp: http://www.needledoctor.com/Bellari-...category=35445


appreciate the recommendation. I will check it out.

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