Criteria for choosing a CD player - Page 2 - AVS Forum
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post #31 of 43 Old 03-28-2013, 03:51 PM
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My experience is different. Well-build CD players sound better than el-cheapo DVD players with analog outputs that are just an after-thought. Jelly-bean DAC and op-amps, capacitors rated for AC filtration, power supply insufficient filtered with switch-mode noise overlapped, jittery optical drives... all those lead to horrid sound. The audio world is not only SNR and number of bits. THD is closer of reality and still doesn't tell nothing about intermodulation and noise-shaping side-effects in 'modern' sigma-delta DAC's.

Listening to a CD based on a multi-bit DAC will easily tell that there is a difference. of course if the source CD is well mastered and if the listener has functional ears and brain (to know what is supposed to listen for). A brain used to listen to crappy mp3's in crappy ear-channel headphones every day cannot be trusted to judge the differences in quality.
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post #32 of 43 Old 03-28-2013, 06:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoNic67 View Post

My experience is different. Well-build CD players sound better than el-cheapo DVD players with analog outputs that are just an after-thought. Jelly-bean DAC and op-amps, capacitors rated for AC filtration, power supply insufficient filtered with switch-mode noise overlapped, jittery optical drives... all those lead to horrid sound. The audio world is not only SNR and number of bits. THD is closer of reality and still doesn't tell nothing about intermodulation and noise-shaping side-effects in 'modern' sigma-delta DAC's.

Listening to a CD based on a multi-bit DAC will easily tell that there is a difference. of course if the source CD is well mastered and if the listener has functional ears and brain (to know what is supposed to listen for). A brain used to listen to crappy mp3's in crappy ear-channel headphones every day cannot be trusted to judge the differences in quality.

Uh-oh!
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post #33 of 43 Old 03-28-2013, 06:38 PM
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My experience is different.
No doubt it is. The question is, what conclusions can we draw from your experience, compared to the conclusions we draw from much more careful and scientific comparisons. I'm afraid your conclusions are in error. Cover them up, match output levels, and you couldn't tell two DACs apart if your life depended on it.

If you can't explain how it works, you can't say it doesn't.—The High-End Creed

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post #34 of 43 Old 03-29-2013, 04:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoNic67 View Post

My experience is different.

OK, let's see whether your reflections on your experiences jibe with real world audio.
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Well-built CD players sound better than el-cheapo DVD players

Seems like an illogical and irrelevant comparison. I suspect that most people on AVS are interested in comparing well-built CD players to well-built DVD players.
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with analog outputs that are just an after-thought.

If you are like most people you are using your digital player with a modern amplifier or AVR or other component that has digital inputs, so who cares about analog outputs?
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Jelly-bean DAC and op-amps,

How do I distinguish a jelly bean DAC from a good DAC?

For example one of the following pictures is one of the finest DAC chips on the market today and the other is the DAC in a Wii game console. How can you tell which is which?





The second one looks more like a jelly bean...
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capacitors rated for AC filtration,

Well, if they are power supply filter caps, what's wrong with that? You are aware by the way that vastly different capacitance and voltage ratings characterize capacitors for power supplies and signal paths, so there is not much chance of them being interchanged, right?
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power supply insufficient filtered with switch-mode noise overlapped

Interesting claim - do you have any facts to back this claim up?
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jittery optical drives...

You are aware that all optical drives have tons of jitter and they are always followed by buffer circuits that remove the jitter, right?
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all those lead to horrid sound.

Well then you can point us to well-done listening tests that show audible differences among various music players, right?
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The audio world is not only SNR and number of bits.

Nobody but you seems to be suggesting that it is.
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THD is closer of reality and still doesn't tell nothing about intermodulation

You are aware that both THD and IM have the same electronic cause - nonlinear distortion, right?
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and noise-shaping side-effects in 'modern' sigma-delta DAC's.

Again, if they are so serious, where are your well-done listening tests backing up this claim?
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Listening to a CD based on a multi-bit DAC will easily tell that there is a difference.

Letsee, multibit DACs are prone to have more nonlinear distortion. Are you contradicting your former claims and saying that nonlinear distortion is a good thing?


Please be more relevant and consistent when you explain what you mean and document your claims.
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post #35 of 43 Old 03-29-2013, 05:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by K Shep View Post

My experience is different

arnyk you've made an error, I didn't quote the above. See my post #32.
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post #36 of 43 Old 03-30-2013, 09:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by K Shep View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by K Shep View Post

My experience is different

arnyk you've made an error, I didn't quote the above. See my post #32.

I think I've got the attribution right, now.

Sorry for any inconvenience...
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post #37 of 43 Old 05-07-2013, 12:53 PM
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Originally Posted by mcnarus View Post

It's all audiophile mythology. Just as an example, here's an account of a listening test in which a prominent maker of turntables couldn't tell the difference between a vinyl record—played on one of his own turntables—and a CD-quality copy of same.

Reading now. Very interesting, thanks.
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post #38 of 43 Old 05-16-2013, 04:58 PM
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Listen to them.

If you don't hear a difference, get the cheapest with the features you want.

If you do hear a difference, purchase accordingly.
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post #39 of 43 Old 05-17-2013, 12:59 AM
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I have always been a fan of the signal to noise ratio ( S/N ratio).
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post #40 of 43 Old 05-17-2013, 03:25 PM
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Originally Posted by JA Fant View Post

I have always been a fan of the signal to noise ratio ( S/N ratio).

^With a weighting filter, or without? Measured with the output muted or not? My point is, SNR measurements can yield differing results depending on how the measurement is done.

Having said that, I know of no CD player where the SNR is an audible issue.

For every new thing I learn, I forget two things I used to know.
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post #41 of 43 Old 05-21-2013, 09:35 PM
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Interesting reading.

I have found that my BD player has better sound than my old Yamaha CD carasell CDC755. I have nothing to back this up but my ears and my taste.

However the option of loading 5 CDs and walking away, means it gets used and the BD doesnt.

Convenience counts.
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post #42 of 43 Old 05-21-2013, 09:36 PM
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Interesting reading.

I have found that my BD player has better sound than my old Yamaha CD carasell CDC755. I have nothing to back this up but my ears and my taste.

However the option of loading 5 CDs and walking away, means it gets used and the BD doesnt.

Convenience counts.
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post #43 of 43 Old 05-25-2013, 03:43 PM
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This is what I am listening today. Yamaha CDX-530 - PCM61P-J (multibit DAC; 18 bit) with replaced OpAmps (LME49990, LM4562), added some capacitors that where missing in the audio chain (like the 100nF parallel on output electrolysis - they have only the holes in board).
With good CD's it sounds better than my universal DVD-A/SACD players (like Denon DVD-2930 and such). Using headphones of course.

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