SACD via HDMI - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 18 Old 03-11-2013, 02:32 PM - Thread Starter
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I am trying to connect my Sony SCD-CE595 through my Sony BDV-IS1000 so that I can play my SACDs. Has anyone done this? My SACDs are playing back in stereo and not multi channel. How do you connect SACD via HDMI? Thanks in advance!
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post #2 of 18 Old 03-11-2013, 08:32 PM
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My Sony ce-595 does not have HDMI!!

To play your SACD's on this unit you must use the analog
Outputs for SACD multi-channel.

Looking at your IS-1000 it does not have the correct inputs
To play multi-channel SACD's. Sorry.
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post #3 of 18 Old 03-12-2013, 10:20 AM
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I too am confused by your post. How can you connect a device that has no HDMI output to another that does and keep the DSD stream intact? But it is not the player that is holding you back - it is your Sony HTIB system.

SACD playback via HDMI is done by the player bitstreaming DSD. Your Sony player cannot do this - it decodes DSD at the player level and sends it out via multi channel analog outputs. Further, your receiver needs the capability to accept DSD over HDMI which I don't believe your Sony BDV-IS1000 can do for multi-channel SACD playback. In other words for SACD multi-channel playback the two units are incompatible.

If you have an extensive collection of SACDs, you'll have to get rid of the Sony HTIB system and get an AVR with a full set of multi-channel inputs. This is the only the logical choice. To get a modern SACD player that has an HDMI output and can bitstream DSD does you no good because your Sony BDV-IS1000 system cannot accept it. So again, it is the Sony BDV-IS1000 that is holding you back. Sorry.

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post #4 of 18 Old 03-12-2013, 11:26 AM
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I'm an admitted newbie to this, so I'd appreciate any comments from the experts. Can I use HDMI from a Sony SCD-XA5400ES to a Marantz SR6007 for multi-channel playback? The DSD issue has me confused.

Graham
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post #5 of 18 Old 03-12-2013, 12:00 PM
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I believe you will be OK Graham. Your Sony player will output SACD multi-channel over HDMI. Your Marantz receiver is very current and should give you no problems accepting DSD and converting it. Are you having any problems or simply haven't tried it yet?

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post #6 of 18 Old 03-12-2013, 02:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paraneer View Post

I believe you will be OK Graham. Your Sony player will output SACD multi-channel over HDMI. Your Marantz receiver is very current and should give you no problems accepting DSD and converting it. Are you having any problems or simply haven't tried it yet?

I agree. I have an older Marantz sr5003 that decodes DSD via HDMI.
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post #7 of 18 Old 03-12-2013, 03:14 PM
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Thanks Grasshopper. If a SR5003 can do it, certainly the SR6007 can. Have fun listening to your SACDs Graham.

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post #8 of 18 Old 03-12-2013, 05:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Paraneer View Post

Thanks Grasshopper. If a SR5003 can do it, certainly the SR6007 can. Have fun listening to your SACDs Graham.

That's greatly appreciated, folks. Thanks! smile.gif

Graham
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post #9 of 18 Old 03-12-2013, 05:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paraneer View Post


SACD playback via HDMI is done by the player bitstreaming DSD. Your Sony player cannot do this - it decodes DSD at the player level and sends it out via multi channel analog outputs. Further, your receiver needs the capability to accept DSD over HDMI which I don't believe your Sony BDV-IS1000 can do for multi-channel SACD playback. In other words for SACD multi-channel playback the two units are incompatible.

Not quite true. DSD bitstreaming is only one way, player decimating to PCM and sending PCM is another way, and arguably the better way. DSD bitstreaming isn't the holy grail for SACD playback as some believe, when you consider how the recordings are made and edited and how receivers handle the DSD inside.
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Originally Posted by Paraneer View Post

To get a modern SACD player that has an HDMI output and can bitstream DSD does you no good because your Sony BDV-IS1000 system cannot accept it. So again, it is the Sony BDV-IS1000 that is holding you back. Sorry.

Not necessarily, if the HTIB has HDMI inputs which can accept MCH PCM that should do it. In the OP's case his player doesn't have HDMI so it is a limitation notwithstanding the HTIB's capabilities.
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Can I use HDMI from a Sony SCD-XA5400ES to a Marantz SR6007 for multi-channel playback? The DSD issue has me confused.

You can but you're not confined to using DSD output. The player can also decimate to PCM at 176.4kHz, which I very much doubt the Marantz receiver can do inside.

Audiosceptics accept audio trials using 25 people. A recent Oxford study with over 353,000 patient records from 639 separate clinical trials shows for every 1,000 people taking diclofenac or ibuprofen there would be 3 additional heart attacks, 4 more cases of heart failure and 1 death every year.

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post #10 of 18 Old 03-12-2013, 06:50 PM
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Fair enough Kilian. Thanks for the lesson on PCM over HDMI. I was not aware of that - I always thought DSD bitstreamed was the best way to go. As you point out, guess I was one who always believed that it was the Holy Grail.

Seems to me though that the OP's units are still incompatible - the Sony player he has can only output via multi-channel analog and the HTIB unit has no such inputs. He will need to replace or the other.

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post #11 of 18 Old 03-13-2013, 05:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kilian.ca View Post

You can but you're not confined to using DSD output. The player can also decimate to PCM at 176.4kHz, which I very much doubt the Marantz receiver can do inside.

Interesting. I'm also looking at a Marantz UD7007, as opposed to the Sony. Any comments on one vs the other? This is mostly for CD and SACD (including multi-channel SACD). Obviously, the Marantz plays many other things. Any input would be very appreciated.

Graham
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post #12 of 18 Old 03-13-2013, 06:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paraneer View Post

Fair enough Kilian. Thanks for the lesson on PCM over HDMI. I was not aware of that - I always thought DSD bitstreamed was the best way to go. As you point out, guess I was one who always believed that it was the Holy Grail.

You're welcome, lets say it is an exchange of info rather than a lesson.

Anyone interested in the DSD direct decoding, vs. PCM in the receiver, there are a number of discussions at the AVR forum and these should cover most points, including some made by me. There are many pitfalls that one should be aware of.

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1429939/low-bass-output-when-listening-to-sacds-using-the-dsd-setting
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1230824/list-of-av-receivers-pre-pros-with-pure-dsd-to-analog-processing - Post 18
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1426737/marantz-sr6007-dsd + links in post 3 <- note the Marantz SR6007 converts DSD to PCM!
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1145312/dsd-pcm-and-bass-management
www.avsforum.com/t/1238188/which-receivers-accept-dsd-via-hdmi-but-dont-convert-it-to-pcm
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Originally Posted by dragpeace View Post

I'm also looking at a Marantz UD7007, as opposed to the Sony. Any comments on one vs the other? This is mostly for CD and SACD (including multi-channel SACD). Obviously, the Marantz plays many other things.

I have no direct experience with the Marantz player. I have the Sony 5400ES which I like for the 2CH analogue output, certainly prefer that over the old Denon universal player. I use other players with HDMI for MCH SACDs.

AFAIK the Marantz (and Denon) converts DSD to PCM at 88.2kHz max. compared to 176.4kHz for the Sony. Whether the difference is audible is debatable but bear in mind many SACDs originate from PCM 24/96 recordings.

If the Marantz has some features the Sony doesn't like DVD-A then it's simple choice but if you're going to use HDMI output then why pick an expensive model when there are cheaper universal BDPs, if features are comparable?

Audiosceptics accept audio trials using 25 people. A recent Oxford study with over 353,000 patient records from 639 separate clinical trials shows for every 1,000 people taking diclofenac or ibuprofen there would be 3 additional heart attacks, 4 more cases of heart failure and 1 death every year.

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post #13 of 18 Old 03-14-2013, 06:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Kilian.ca View Post

If the Marantz has some features the Sony doesn't like DVD-A then it's simple choice but if you're going to use HDMI output then why pick an expensive model when there are cheaper universal BDPs, if features are comparable?

I'm a newbie at the new technologies, so could you expand on this, and perhaps offer an option or two? I would very much appreciate it.

Basically, I have a Marantz SR6007 receiver. I also have an old Sony SACD/CD player, and have been using my son's PS3 to play Blu-ray (which has worked fine for me). My main concerns are audio quality for CDs, SACDs, Blu-rays, and DVDs, and video quality for Blu-rays and DVDs.

Given the Marantz receiver, what makes sense?

Thanks! I'm learning a lot here. smile.gif

Graham
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post #14 of 18 Old 03-14-2013, 10:57 AM
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As a side note, what I'm now leaning towards is the Oppo 105.

Graham
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post #15 of 18 Old 03-14-2013, 11:16 AM
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Originally Posted by dragpeace View Post

As a side note, what I'm now leaning towards is the Oppo 105.

Graham

If the price is not a concern, I'd take that Oppo in a second. I've never heard of a dissatisfied Oppo owner. I have an older model myself, and it is built like I wish all electronics were and performs like I wish they all did. The features of the new one make me envious.
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post #16 of 18 Old 03-14-2013, 08:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dragpeace View Post

I'm a newbie at the new technologies, so could you expand on this, and perhaps offer an option or two? I would very much appreciate it.

Basically, I have a Marantz SR6007 receiver. I also have an old Sony SACD/CD player, and have been using my son's PS3 to play Blu-ray (which has worked fine for me). My main concerns are audio quality for CDs, SACDs, Blu-rays, and DVDs, and video quality for Blu-rays and DVDs.

Given the Marantz receiver, what makes sense?

Do you really need to buy a new player as you already have a Sony SACD player and PS3 and presumably already using HDMI and you didn't mention DVD-Audio?

Other BD universal players include Denon, Yamaha and Pioneer besides Oppo. The Yamaha and Pioneer also use the Mediatek plataform similar to the Oppo and the Pioneer higher model also has Qdeo video chip and dual HDMI output like the Oppo.

If you are using HDMI for everything then you don't need an expensive player to do it. There should not be any difference (or the difference is minuscule to be inaudible in practice) when sending out digital signals. Your receiver accepts all formats you mentioned so any BD universal player would do.

If you particularly desire to match brand for cosmetics then it's up to you. Generally with digital signals, matching brands for functionality or sound quality isn't that important.
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Originally Posted by dragpeace View Post

As a side note, what I'm now leaning towards is the Oppo 105.

Spending more and going backwards? Only if you really believe in the sonic superiority (or the hype) of the Sabre DAC and use analogue outputs. The Sabre is a '32-bit' DAC that in reality has less than full 24-bit dynamic range. If you have a HDMI receiver already it'd be better to use HDMI because receivers generally do a better job in digital processing than players. Players cannot do channel upmixing or room correction (Audyssey in the Marantz) either.
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If the price is not a concern, I'd take that Oppo in a second. I've never heard of a dissatisfied Oppo owner. I have an older model myself, and it is built like I wish all electronics were and performs like I wish they all did. The features of the new one make me envious.

Doesn't mean it's necessarily the best or the only choice for Graham. As for dissatisfied Oppo owner? Ask gbaby. biggrin.gif

Audiosceptics accept audio trials using 25 people. A recent Oxford study with over 353,000 patient records from 639 separate clinical trials shows for every 1,000 people taking diclofenac or ibuprofen there would be 3 additional heart attacks, 4 more cases of heart failure and 1 death every year.

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post #17 of 18 Old 03-15-2013, 10:22 AM
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The least expensive choice for the original poster, ellwoda, probably would be to get one of Sony's current-generation Blu-ray players which includes SACD support. Either the BDP-S590 or its replacement the S5100 can translate SACD DSD into multichannel LPCM, and thus would be compatible with his existing HTIB. Both players cost in the vicinity of $100. Neither supports DVD-A, though.

Upgrading the HTIB to a receiver with multichannel analog inputs plus a set of quality speakers would be more appropriate, but also much more expensive. Those tiny HTIB speakers certainly can't provide the quality of sound inherent in SACDs.

Sadly, although it seems to be a quality player, the connections provided by the 595 are obsolete by today's standards. It's frustrating.

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post #18 of 18 Old 01-20-2014, 07:22 AM
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So my onkyo receiver can decode sacd bitstreams sent via hdmi from my oppo. Works great with good old fashioned sacd. recordings

Now I would like to send ISO sacd information or dsd (dsf) files from the htpc to the onkyo.

Can this be done via foobar ? If so, any pointers that can be shared. ?

Thanks.
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