Debut Carbon Downforce Issue - Please Help! - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 7 Old 05-04-2013, 08:22 PM - Thread Starter
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Ok, new Debut Carbon TT, my first. I set it up, adjusted the downforce on the tonearm correctly. I got a Shure weight gauge to be a little more accurate, and sure enough it was a couple notches too light on the counterweight dial (the manual recommends 17.5 on the dial, but the 2M cartridge is supposed to be at 1.8g downforce and the force wasn't reading exact, so I guess my eyeball balance when I lined the dial up to zero wasn't perfect. But, I adjusted that and everything was great (it was then lining up at around 18.5 on the counterweight dial).

Fast forward a week or so, been listening with no issues. I go to put on a record today, and when I drop the tonearm with the cue lever, it doesn't even touch the record. "What the hell?" So I put the cue lever up again and try once more. It drops down to the record but something doesn't seem right, feels light, and the record doesn't sound right either. So I break out the Shure gauge again and it's way off. It's not even raising the weight when I drop the stylus on the gauge. I adjusted it so it read 1.8g again, but now the dial on the tonearm is at around 20, which is much higher than before, and higher than what it's supposed to be. I even started from scratch with the balancing and got the same result.

Nothing happened to the TT, everything is still brand new. What happened? I'm a little freaked out that something in the tone arm mechanism is messed up, but I don't know enough about this. Anyone have this experience or have an idea of what could be up with it? I'm worried about continuing to play records until I know it's alright, and am weirded out that all of a sudden it randomly needed a heavier adjustment of the counterweight.

Thank you for your help/advice.
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post #2 of 7 Old 05-04-2013, 09:31 PM
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Sounds like someone played around with or bumped the counterweight.

Also, if you're getting a reading of 1.8 grams with your Shure gauge then go ahead and carefully turn the dial on the counterweight to read 1.8. Be careful to hold the rear of the counterweight immobile while doing this so that only the dial is turned while the rest of the counterweight does not move/turn. After doing this the counterweight's VTF dial should closely match the actual VTF as measured with your Shure gauge, even if you decide to adjust VTF up or down.
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post #3 of 7 Old 05-04-2013, 10:39 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks. I guess that makes sense, but I am positive no one bumped it (there isn't really anyone else here but my wife, and she hasn't been near it). And it would have had to be bumped pretty hard to both move the counter weight and turn the dial. It's just weird. I suppose it explains it though, and the tonearm probably didn't come down the first time because the downforce was so light it was almost zero/perfectly balanced?

Also, I started from the beginning and tried adjusting the downforce without using the Shure gauge and the dial was still lined up at zero, so it doesn't seem like the dial could have been turned. Is it possible that the balance on the tonearm itself could be off? Or should I just shut up and do what you said and not worry about it...
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post #4 of 7 Old 05-04-2013, 10:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bruck7 View Post

and when I drop the tonearm with the cue lever, it doesn't even touch the record. .

It might just have been that the lifter bar didn't go down and was holding the arm up. You can push it down manually and "work it in". This is the first thing I would check.

As other poster suggested the numerical reading is unimportant, it is the actual measured force that matters.

B.
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post #5 of 7 Old 05-04-2013, 10:44 PM - Thread Starter
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Hey Brian.

I did check that the lifter bar was down, and the downforce seemed low enough after measuring that it maybe just didn't have enough to go down..

It's just very strange that it all of a sudden was so off. Nobody touched the thing, and I've been treating it like a baby. Don't know if I'll ever know what happened...but wanted to make sure that just adjusting the dial based on the gauge is good enough, and that I shouldn't worry about something else being wrong.

Also I want to reiterate that the reason I was concerned is not because the numerical reading on the dial is wrong, but because when I originally measured it was pretty close the the Shure gauge, and since I had this problem (where the downforce was all of a sudden WAY off), I have since done it again and I'm getting the same reading on the dial but a different reading from the Shure.

In other words, if I do it without the Shure, there is a greater discrepancy between that and the actual measurement from the Shure gauge. That's why I was wondering if maybe the tonearm itself could be messed up. But again I don't understand how that could have happened either.

Thanks for your help.
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post #6 of 7 Old 05-05-2013, 06:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian B View Post

It might just have been that the lifter bar didn't go down and was holding the arm up. You can push it down manually and "work it in". This is the first thing I would check.

As other poster suggested the numerical reading is unimportant, it is the actual measured force that matters.

B.

This happens on my Debut III all the time. The lifter bar is damped so the tonearm slowly and smoothly drops when you turn the lever down, but it also means that it likes to get stuck. I press the lifter bar down manually whenever this happens - not ideal, but not the end of the world.

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post #7 of 7 Old 05-05-2013, 09:53 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks, it's good to know that this happens sometimes. As I stated before though, my main concern is that after that one instance of it not dropping, the downforce was too light to even move the gauge on the Shure, and I had to adjust it after it was perfectly fine up until that point.
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