Audiophile CD Player? Which One? - Page 22 - AVS Forum
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post #631 of 661 Old 04-27-2014, 11:35 AM
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O.P. back to the Topic at hand owning a Sony ES DVD/SACD spinner I can tell you at least the one I have is well made and still works flawlessly 10 yrs later although it has only seen very occasional use in the last 5 yrs . If you can get one decently cheap on paybay and if shipping is reasonable and it floats your boat go for it they work well.

Most likely any other premium
used spinner you buy will have a Sony transport /laser in it anyway .

Sony is selling its ODD business and won't be making CDP/BDP or ODD assys. anymore they will be buying them from somebody .


. OTOH you could try a new Samsung,LG Panasonic ,Sony, etc BD player out and see how you like it if not you may be able to return it for a refund depending on the store . Just a thought .

The Panasonic and Sony's get good reviews also some of the newer L.G. 's and Sammie's are getting better reviews more recently also . ofc a used Oppo cheap (unlikley) would be good as well but don't be surprised if it sounds just like many other modern BD players . Not to mention like Arny said HDMI is an excellent signal path .

You can see reviews at Blue ray .com or probably here .


regards

The Soviet people feared the KGB was watching them through their TV's ........or listening to them through their radios, so they kept them turned off often when they wanted privacy .

Now the NSA/ DHS are in fact watching us with our computers cell phones surveillance cameras drones,satellites etc !
...
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post #632 of 661 Old 04-27-2014, 11:53 AM
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Originally Posted by smitty View Post

I have crossed the border. I was once a dyed-in-the-wool objectivist for several years, and had discussions on several threads with Steve Bruzonsky and others about DBT's, etc., attempting to persuade them of the correctness of the objectivists 'viewpoint. I became a subjectivist (or a "partial subjectivist "would probably be more accurate) based on my personal experiences. So I understand the objectivists' argument. I just find it odd that some are so obsessive about their point of view -- to the extent that they feel compelled to advance it ad nauseum everywhere.
The part you didn't quote is "By truly seeing both sides, you will appreciates the efforts of those who are trying to teach the facts."
You are not truly seeing both sides. You can claim that you are but based on what you've been posting, you are not.

The problem with what you are doing is, you are trying to change the tone of this forum but it's just the way the forum is. Every forum has different tone and that's just the way things are, aka "nature". Complaining and asking it to change is equivalent to complaining that the sky is blue on sunny days and asking for green instead. You can continue to complain for the rest of your life but you will see not one iota of change in nature. IOW, don't waste your effort. I would go to the forum where the tone is to my liking if I were you.
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post #633 of 661 Old 04-27-2014, 12:43 PM
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If it were up to me (and I know it is not), I'd give them an entire sub-forum in bold letters with gold stars and whatever they wanted to highlight their point of view-- and as many threads in the sub-forum as they wanted -- so people could find it and read all the arguments, DBT articles, etc. And objectivists and subjectivists could debate at length in such sub forum

Then the forum on CD Players and Transports, for example, would be for people to discuss the various options, without badgering by objectivists. So someone could start a post and say, "My Marantz XYX is breaking down and I'm think of getting a Cambridge Audio 123 or a Yamaha 555. What do people think? Does anybody have an good experience with the Cambridge unit or the Yamaha player?" And then there could be a discussion about the Cambridge and Yamaha units, unencumbered by comments like "You are wasting your money to buy either unit. Just get a cheapo DVD player, as only someone who believes in witch doctors thinks that CD players sound different."

The reason no objectivist has presented a similar point of view about keeping the discussion about science/DBT's separate is obvious -- most objectivists on this forum are not interested in merely presenting information and informing others about what DBT's, their limitations, the science of digital, etc.. Some (not all) are primarily interested in fighting and harassing others. You can't do that if there are separate forums. That is why they don't want them; it will interfere with how they get their jollies. biggrin.gif
Last I checked, one can start an online forum for free. smile.gif
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post #634 of 661 Old 04-27-2014, 12:43 PM
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In other words, you want the discussions limited and confined, so that nonsense can proceed unimpeded and undisputed in some places.

 

 

Well what did you expect Jack?  Us simpleminded folk who want to spread "falsehoods" would like to get a little break from you types spreading your factoid like nonsense in thread after thread after thread.  In fact, it's kind of fanatical with a religious like fervour.  I Don't get that need you types have of forcing people to believe they are wrong, but I've always thought to each their own, until it gets out of control.

 

Tell you what, you can have this thread too.  Dig up some nice graphs and optical illusions, knock yourself out and bring up as many red herrings as you like.  Make me proud!

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post #635 of 661 Old 04-27-2014, 01:01 PM
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Originally Posted by RobertR View Post

So you don't think being exposed to new/different ideas is a good thing. Ever see the movie Pleasantville? Do you favor "speech codes" on college campuses?
I'm sensing a fundamental philosophical disagreement here. I think that people should decide for themselves what ideas they'll listen to, not be told according to prescribed rules. If you don't like what's being shown on TV, change the channel instead of writing to the FCC demanding that it be taken off the air. Don't like violent video games? Don't buy 'em instead of demanding congressional hearings on them. etc. etc.
Yes, really. Explain why simply ignoring someone you disagree with is unacceptable to you instead of demanding that he not be present to "offend" you.
It fascinates me that you label the expression of objectivist views "harassment". It's an expression of ideas. You know, like that Galileo fellow who said the earth orbits the sun.
What I glean from his posts is that he wants more control over people. I heard that fascism, when tried on nation/s of people last century, didn't go well. It scares me to see such desire still being publicly expressed today. eek.gif
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post #636 of 661 Old 04-27-2014, 05:24 PM
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Originally Posted by RobertR View Post

The saying that comes to mind is "don't be so open minded that your brains fall out". ...
Or, even the kitchen sink can fall in. wink.gifbiggrin.gif
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post #637 of 661 Old 04-27-2014, 05:31 PM
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.. It fascinates me that you label the expression of objectivist views "harassment". It's an expression of ideas. You know, like that Galileo fellow who said the earth orbits the sun.
Oh, this is choice. smile.gif
It seems some want to dictate what to believe else they would have to change their minds to the facts. History is repeated time and time again .eek.gif
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post #638 of 661 Old 04-27-2014, 05:36 PM
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Oh, this is choice. smile.gif
It seems some want to dictate what to believe else they would have to change their minds to the facts. History is repeated time and time again .eek.gif
Well, in this case, instead of putting us on trial for daring to challenge the subjectivist orthodoxy (as Galileo was for daring to challenge Church orthodoxy), he wants to ghettoize us.
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post #639 of 661 Old 04-27-2014, 05:39 PM
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Originally Posted by esh516 View Post

...I usually always picked my cables in a blind test. ..

That could mean you have 'super' hearing and should have it properly tested to advance the sciences, seriously.
Or, your protocol has gross flaws.
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post #640 of 661 Old 04-27-2014, 05:43 PM
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OP-

check our Arcam, Naim and the new Rega Saturn disc spinners. Very musical, to say the least. smile.gif
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post #641 of 661 Old 04-27-2014, 06:23 PM
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I think its funny addressing things to the OP since he hasn't even posted in the forums at all since September 2013 and think his last post in this thread was in August....and last heard from he was maybe looking at an Oppo 103 when debating about DACs here http://www.avsforum.com/t/1491920/a-sticky-situation#post_23764823http://www.avsforum.com/t/1491920/a-sticky-situation

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post #642 of 661 Old 04-27-2014, 07:14 PM
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Originally Posted by smitty View Post



It is good to be have certain knowledge (or "alleged" knowledge) and it is good to share opposing viewpoints on the proper occasion, but it is also important to evidence some humility and to be respectful of others when it is apparent others do not welcome a certain intrusion. This is a concept that seems to be lost on many on this thread, but this is reflective of the attitude of many in our society today. We are tending to become a society where too many act like children.

 

We all have ideas on what we percieve as problems with society. Some of us find the attitude of those denying science and evidence as a major problem.  Scientific illiteracy demonstrated by those who believe vaccinations cause autism, that organic food is safer/better/more nutritious, that homeopathy works and  that cables and speaker wire "sound" different.  In my book the childish ones are those who when informed that Santa doesn't exist want to discuss if he is more generous than the easter bunny or the  tooth fairy while excluding from the discussion those who rightfully point out that there is no evidence for the existence of either of them.

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post #643 of 661 Old 04-28-2014, 04:58 AM
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Originally Posted by JA Fant View Post

OP-

check our Arcam, Naim and the new Rega Saturn disc spinners. Very musical, to say the least. smile.gif
( throwing u a life jacket)
Just say coby,sieka.and rca...
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post #644 of 661 Old 06-03-2014, 05:06 PM
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Stating that every cd player sounds almost the same is really ridiculous.  Maybe a lot of people suffer so much ear damage, they can't hear the difference anymore.

 

There are also a lot of people saying DAB is sounding much better than FM.  This is absolutely ridiculous.  (try a kenwood 600t, grundig T7500, ReVox B261, Mc Intosh MR88, Magnum Dynalab, Philips 673 with a good antenna and I'm sure : you'll throw your DAB tuner in the dust bin! (except if you're almost deaf or you don't have an antenna)  Even a simple Carad T51b (tube tuner) excels in sound compared to a dab tuner...(even the best dab tuner) AND all those tuners are dead silent when there is no sound transmission (between two songs for eg)

 

 

I have an excellent (and expensive) satellite tuner which also receives satellite radio at 320kbps. It sounds already a lot better than most (high quality) dab tuners,  but is still sounding liveless compared to a good fm broadcast...   which is logical : a CD has 1411 kbps, an lp is analogue, MP3 (MPEG-1 Layer 3) is compressed at 32 to 320 kbps, still 4,4 to 44 times more compressed (less information) than a standard Cd.  If you can't hear the difference (fm definitely sounds better) you really suffer ear damage !

 

People with good ears definitely hear a huge difference between let us say a philips cd 471 (a VERY good sounding cheap cd player) and for example a philips CD882, grundig cd 9009, marantz cd 17, Onkyo 6890, Accuphase DP75V,  Sony CDP-XA7ES, or...a Linn Sondek CD12

 

Of course you need top quality speakers  (for example infinity reference, JM Lab etc... , good interlinks (this doesn't always mean expensive) and a top quality amplifier (for example a good luxman, accuphase, kenwood model 500 / 600, Bryston etc...) and of course a couple of healthy ears...

 

If you still don't hear any difference, immediately call a doctor !

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post #645 of 661 Old 06-03-2014, 05:57 PM
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I would suggest you go back and read through this thread more thoroughly. Then share with us your counter-arguments to those arguments which numerous times have already addressed similar claims as yours.

Or not. Sometimes it's just nice to vent, not expecting anything constructive to come from it other than making yourself feel momentarily better. biggrin.gif
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post #646 of 661 Old 06-03-2014, 07:46 PM
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Originally Posted by multykat View Post

Stating that every cd player sounds almost the same is really ridiculous.  Maybe a lot of people suffer so much ear damage, they can't hear the difference anymore.

There are also a lot of people saying DAB is sounding much better than FM.  This is absolutely ridiculous.  (try a kenwood 600t, grundig T7500, ReVox B261, Mc Intosh MR88, Magnum Dynalab, Philips 673 with a good antenna and I'm sure : you'll throw your DAB tuner in the dust bin! (except if you're almost deaf or you don't have an antenna)  Even a simple Carad T51b (tube tuner) excels in sound compared to a dab tuner...(even the best dab tuner) AND all those tuners are dead silent when there is no sound transmission (between two songs for eg)


I have an excellent (and expensive) satellite tuner which also receives satellite radio at 320kbps. It sounds already a lot better than most (high quality) dab tuners,  but is still sounding liveless compared to a good fm broadcast...   which is logical : a CD has 1411 kbps, an lp is analogue, MP3 (MPEG-1 Layer 3) is compressed at 32 to 320 kbps, still 4,4 to 44 times more compressed (less information) than a standard Cd.  If you can't hear the difference (fm definitely sounds better) you really suffer ear damage !

People with good ears definitely hear a huge difference between let us say a philips cd 471 (a VERY good sounding cheap cd player) and for example a philips CD882, grundig cd 9009, marantz cd 17, Onkyo 6890, Accuphase DP75V,  Sony CDP-XA7ES, or...a Linn Sondek CD12

Of course you need top quality speakers  (for example infinity reference, JM Lab etc... , good interlinks (this doesn't always mean expensive) and a top quality amplifier (for example a good luxman, accuphase, kenwood model 500 / 600, Bryston etc...) and of course a couple of healthy ears...

If you still don't hear any difference, immediately call a doctor !

So what determines what makes these particular models sound better? What models of other makes are you comparing them to? Or are you just making funny? Love the whole you gotta have top quality equipment bit....

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post #647 of 661 Old 06-03-2014, 08:30 PM
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Why not put all your music lossless onto a mac and airplay it to your system.

I must have around $300000+ invested when you include the square footage and all the equipment and whatnot I invested in.

For me, a computer based media player with lossless files still cant be beat in terms of versatility. You can tag, cull, listen, rate, and add to your music library all at the same time. Some prefer not to be distracted by the laptop itself. In that case put the mac-mini on the rack and use the remote app to control it.

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post #648 of 661 Old 06-04-2014, 12:49 AM
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The problem is not versability for me.

 

When the compression is not more than 1,411.2 kbit/s, well ok, that sounds already pretty good  (depending on the dac used to unpack the data).    I never understood people telling mp3 and dab sounds good. No!  it is just a very interesting way to pack data but not high quality signals.   The music sounds "dead" to me.  Has anyone of you ever heard a good analogue signal?  I mean something like a high quality  classical recording, played on top equipment like Garrard 401, an SME 3012a tonearm and a shure top element.  Then you immediately know what I mean.  Or try to listen to a well recorded DVD-A (9.6 Mbit/s)  then you hear for the first time Music (with a capital)   I have two cd players in my system : an onkyo dx 1800 and a sony x55es (equipped with two high quality philips dac's inside) at this moment.

 

They can both play music, but the difference is enormous : when you hear for example Dire Straits  playing on the onkyo it sounds a little unclear.  When you immediately replay the CD on the sony it is like you jump from your sofa to the podium (you can FEEL the music)   Even my 79 years old mother hears the difference.  

 

Even in CD pressings is a HUGE difference in quality :

 

I recently bought a HD CD from the Mongolian singer Ha Lin (Perfect sounds of Mongolia) straight from Shangai by airmail. It is not only very beautiful music (a little bit sounding like good female Irish singers) but it is recorded in a top quality Chinese music studio full of high definition sound equipment.    It was a revelation, even for me to hear how pure a well recorded CD can sound.  (Even a friend of me that has the most expensive gear I have ever seen in my life (accuphase / wilson)  couldn't believe his ears...)

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post #649 of 661 Old 06-04-2014, 01:53 AM
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In any case, of course, I'm interested in a 1.411 kbit/sec lossless system with a top quality DAC (preferably 18 bit or more since I listen mostly orchestral music) and a 40 Gigabyte memory or more

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post #650 of 661 Old 06-04-2014, 02:26 PM
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....oops..crap how did I get back in this thread ...again..my theory is to listen more....text less.
....slowly walking back out the door...
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post #651 of 661 Old 06-07-2014, 01:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chrisatmosphere View Post

We all have ideas on what we percieve as problems with society. Some of us find the attitude of those denying science and evidence as a major problem.  Scientific illiteracy demonstrated by those who believe vaccinations cause autism, that organic food is safer/better/more nutritious, that homeopathy works and  that cables and speaker wire "sound" different.  In my book the childish ones are those who when informed that Santa doesn't exist want to discuss if he is more generous than the easter bunny or the  tooth fairy while excluding from the discussion those who rightfully point out that there is no evidence for the existence of either of them.

I consider myself to be a scientific kind of person as I like astronomy and geology and understand and appreciate the huge timescales involved in shaping this planet we live on. I was brought up in a christian fundamentalist family but I no longer believe in magical sky friends or a 6000 year old earth.

However that doesn't mean I think science is the be-all and end-all and gets everything right all of the time. Dietary health and doctors dishing out drugs to fix the problems our overly processed and sugar laden foods are causing many of us is one example.

The recommended food pyramid as it stands now with the low-fat high carbohydrate advice is perhaps one of the biggest medical blunders in recent times and could be partly responsible for obesity and diabetes skyrocketing in the last few decades.

More and more people are beginning to wake up to this and are changing their diet to a more natural real food way of eating and are finding they can get off the merry-go-round of never ending drugs from their doctors.
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post #652 of 661 Old 06-07-2014, 03:40 PM
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Totally agreed..... Now back to the music.....
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post #653 of 661 Old 06-07-2014, 03:43 PM
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I consider myself to be a scientific kind of person as I like astronomy and geology and understand and appreciate the huge timescales involved in shaping this planet we live on. I was brought up in a christian fundamentalist family but I no longer believe in magical sky friends or a 6000 year old earth.

However that doesn't mean I think science is the be-all and end-all and gets everything right all of the time. Dietary health and doctors dishing out drugs to fix the problems our overly processed and sugar laden foods are causing many of us is one example.

The recommended food pyramid as it stands now with the low-fat high carbohydrate advice is perhaps one of the biggest medical blunders in recent times and could be partly responsible for obesity and diabetes skyrocketing in the last few decades.

More and more people are beginning to wake up to this and are changing their diet to a more natural real food way of eating and are finding they can get off the merry-go-round of never ending drugs from their doctors.

Just like "big brother", the "medical community" is US. Science is largely agreed upon by concensus committee whether its food pyramids or global warming.
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post #654 of 661 Old 06-18-2014, 10:40 AM
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The new AVS software has screwed up my usual reading of this web, given that subscribed threads don't seem to come up in an easy to find way. So I find myself reading this thread, and it seems weird, ranging from those who claim there is no difference among disc players to those giving food advice.

My current disc players are an Oppo BDP-105 and a Sony XA5400ES. I use analog stereo output to a Parasound JC-2 preamp, with surrounds from the Oppo going directly to Proceed HPA amps, SW to Velodyne SMS-1 bass managers. The stereo speakers are a pari of KEF Reference 107/2s. The sound with either the Oppo or Sony is very good, but different. I've been searching for a used Ayre C-5xeMP for around $3K, perhaps to replace the Sony.

After reading the beginning of this thread then skipping to the end, I get the impression I've wasted my time and money, and should have bought the least expensive Sony disc player and connected it via HDMI to an AVR, and that I should certainly forget about the Ayre. I do have a Mac Mini running Audirvana that's connected to the asynchronous USB port of the Oppo, so that may save me.

db

Thorens TD 124, SME Series III arm with Ortofon SME 30 H cartridge
Parasound JC-3 phono stage & JC-2 analog preamp
Oppo 105 & Sony 5400ES disc players
Proceed HPA 2 & 3 amps
KEF Reference 107/2 mains & 102 surrounds (with matching KUBEs)
Velodyne SMS-1 ARC & 2 HGS-15 subs
Sony VPL VW50 projector
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post #655 of 661 Old 06-20-2014, 07:20 PM
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The new AVS software has screwed up my usual reading of this web, given that subscribed threads don't seem to come up in an easy to find way. So I find myself reading this thread, and it seems weird, ranging from those who claim there is no difference among disc players to those giving food advice.

My current disc players are an Oppo BDP-105 and a Sony XA5400ES. I use analog stereo output to a Parasound JC-2 preamp, with surrounds from the Oppo going directly to Proceed HPA amps, SW to Velodyne SMS-1 bass managers. The stereo speakers are a pari of KEF Reference 107/2s. The sound with either the Oppo or Sony is very good, but different. I've been searching for a used Ayre C-5xeMP for around $3K, perhaps to replace the Sony.

After reading the beginning of this thread then skipping to the end, I get the impression I've wasted my time and money, and should have bought the least expensive Sony disc player and connected it via HDMI to an AVR, and that I should certainly forget about the Ayre. I do have a Mac Mini running Audirvana that's connected to the asynchronous USB port of the Oppo, so that may save me.

db
There are definitely differences between CD players , subtle , but they do exist.. I have owned many since getting into this hobby since my teens... I own a 105D and love the sound... can you do better? Yes, but it would likely cost you alot more... IMO.. but yes there are differences... it's juts that you have to be willing to part with alot of money for a small increase at that point IMO.. unless you have a REALLY high res system to take advantage of it.. there are alot of factors.. you should definitely look at the used route on that Ayre unit for sure.. I know that Audiogon also offers their A+ Protection which is great for used stuff....
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post #656 of 661 Old 06-23-2014, 10:17 AM
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Ayre C-5xeMP v Sony XA5400ES

At the risk of dragging this thread back to audiophile CD players, I currently have an Oppo BDP-105 that I use for HT and surround music and a Sony XA5400ES that I use for stereo. I'm thinking of perhaps replacing the Sony with an Ayre C-5xeMP. I have no opportunity to try the Ayre in my setup, and wonder if the difference would be appreciable. Has anyone compared the sound with the two? My set up is listed below this post.

db

Thorens TD 124, SME Series III arm with Ortofon SME 30 H cartridge
Parasound JC-3 phono stage & JC-2 analog preamp
Oppo 105 & Sony 5400ES disc players
Proceed HPA 2 & 3 amps
KEF Reference 107/2 mains & 102 surrounds (with matching KUBEs)
Velodyne SMS-1 ARC & 2 HGS-15 subs
Sony VPL VW50 projector
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post #657 of 661 Old 06-25-2014, 10:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dbphd View Post
At the risk of dragging this thread back to audiophile CD players, I currently have an Oppo BDP-105 that I use for HT and surround music and a Sony XA5400ES that I use for stereo. I'm thinking of perhaps replacing the Sony with an Ayre C-5xeMP. I have no opportunity to try the Ayre in my setup, and wonder if the difference would be appreciable. Has anyone compared the sound with the two? My set up is listed below this post.

db
You have an awesome amp/pre-amp combo.. i would imagine you might hear a difference with that level of refinement with the Ayre.. the only way to really know for sure is to try it though......
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post #658 of 661 Old 06-26-2014, 01:28 PM
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No, the only way to know for sure is to conduct a bias controlled test. Any other way caters to bias and belief, not sonics.
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post #659 of 661 Old 06-26-2014, 06:43 PM
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Not really.
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post #660 of 661 Old 06-26-2014, 08:13 PM
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Well, this is the AV Science Forum. And from a scientific point of view FMW is correct. But a discussion of perception bias is off topic, so let's move along...

I suspect that the Ayre C-5xeMP is priced beyond what I'd personally be willing to spend. But I'm still interested in reading what anyone might have to say about it!

Last edited by skriefal; 06-26-2014 at 08:29 PM.
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