Audiophile CD Player? Which One? - Page 23 - AVS Forum
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Old 06-29-2014, 01:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoNic67 View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by arnyk@pcavtech

Low end systems can be fantastic performers. There's a little $30 digital player called the Sansa Clip. It performs as well as many people's whole system and easily reveals the audible problems in problematical recordings. It sounds (and measures) about as good as a $250 iPod.

That's the low end that is given as example.
I had one of those and my son the second. Both POS. It proves nothing but the bias...
Really? I'd be interested in how you tested it, what you tested it against and how you reached your conclusion.
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Old 07-31-2014, 02:47 AM
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I suspect that the Ayre C-5xeMP is priced beyond what I'd personally be willing to spend. But I'm still interested in reading what anyone might have to say about it!
The Aye C-5xeMP replaced my Sony XA5400ES for stereo. SACD DSD & DVD-A sound superb, as expected. Unexpected is that CDs also sound superb. The most substantial improvement using the Ayre rather than the Sony is in the sound of CDs. I have no understanding why this is so, but the improvement is not subtle.

The Sony has moved to the living room where it is used with a Proceed PAV/PDSD and Amp 2 that drives a pair of KEF 102/2s. The Sony joins an Oppo BDP-95 in that setup.

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Old 07-31-2014, 01:58 PM
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The Aye C-5xeMP replaced my Sony XA5400ES for stereo. SACD DSD & DVD-A sound superb, as expected. Unexpected is that CDs also sound superb. The most substantial improvement using the Ayre rather than the Sony is in the sound of CDs. I have no understanding why this is so, but the improvement is not subtle.

db
Probably due to its producing a higher volume level.
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Old 07-31-2014, 06:58 PM
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Originally Posted by FMW View Post
Probably due to its producing a higher volume level.
It's true that the sound level of SACDs with the Ayre is lower, but I compensate for the higher level of CDs. It's also true, however, that the sound with the Ayre is so clean it encourages listening at higher sound levels.

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Old 07-31-2014, 07:36 PM
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Originally Posted by FMW View Post
Probably due to its producing a higher volume level.
How do you know what the volume levels were?
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Old 08-01-2014, 02:16 AM
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This evening I was playing the Channel Classics Bach B Minor Mass in PCM surround on the Oppo BDP-105 and DSD stereo on the Ayre C-5xeMP. It sounds very good on the Oppo, but better on the Ayre. The music seems more fully realized and balanced, as though the full spectrum is more fleshed out. But the Oppo is no slouch and I could easily live with it as my only disc player.

Having been trained as a grad student and post doc in psychoacoustics I'm fully aware how flawed judgements such as those in the paragraph above can be, but it's my observation based on pretty extensive listening.

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Old 08-01-2014, 10:17 AM
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Originally Posted by dbphd View Post
It's true that the sound level of SACDs with the Ayre is lower, but I compensate for the higher level of CDs. It's also true, however, that the sound with the Ayre is so clean it encourages listening at higher sound levels.

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How do you know what the volume levels were?
You both are missing the point.
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Old 08-01-2014, 11:02 AM
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Missing what point?

db

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Old 08-01-2014, 12:21 PM
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Originally Posted by spkr View Post
You both are missing the point.
You may somehow be missing my point, but I'm not missing the point made by fmw. He claims that the Ayre player may be producing "higher volume levels" than the Sony, thus fooling the listener into thinking it's superior SQ, when it's only volume. I'm simply pointing out that he doesn't really know what the volume was set at (at the preamp volume knob) for either unit.

Last edited by audio4life; 08-01-2014 at 12:52 PM.
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Old 08-02-2014, 02:51 AM
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When I compared the sound quality of the Sony and Ayre, I used balanced connections for both and played the same CD and SACD discs. It's true if I matched the levels for DSDs, CDs would be louder with the Ayre. I reduced the level of the Ayre when playing CDs. Level matching was by listening, and thus not exact. But I doubt my observations were based on the Ayre being louder. SACD DSD sounds a bit better with the Ayre than it does with the Sony; CDs sound markedly better with the Ayre. That's just my judgement.

db

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Old 08-02-2014, 09:22 AM
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See the same nonsense is going in these forums too. "everything sounds the same" ha.

I had a Rega CD Player, superb sounding CD player. To say a supermarket DVD player using outputs for CD's sounds exactly the same as the Rega CDP? haha lol

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Old 08-02-2014, 11:00 AM
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Originally Posted by dbphd View Post
When I compared the sound quality of the Sony and Ayre, I used balanced connections for both and played the same CD and SACD discs. It's true if I matched the levels for DSDs, CDs would be louder with the Ayre. I reduced the level of the Ayre when playing CDs. Level matching was by listening, and thus not exact. But I doubt my observations were based on the Ayre being louder. SACD DSD sounds a bit better with the Ayre than it does with the Sony; CDs sound markedly better with the Ayre. That's just my judgement.

db

Good to know your results on the comparison. BTW, it's basically useless to reveal one's comparison details. No matter how careful you are, the science-it-all-sounds-the-same crowd will fault you unless your result is that the 2 units sound the same. But for those of us who understand that we can trust our ears, and that music is not a science, I'm not surprised that the Sony was bested.
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Old 08-02-2014, 11:59 AM
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I have spent some time w/ the Ayre, Sony ES and Rega.
Trust your ears. Spend the amount of $$$$ that you want.
The new Rega Saturn -R is superb, as well as, Naim cd players.
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Old 08-02-2014, 12:55 PM
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Originally Posted by fatbottom View Post
See the same nonsense is going in these forums too. "everything sounds the same" ha.

I had a Rega CD Player, superb sounding CD player. To say a supermarket DVD player using outputs for CD's sounds exactly the same as the Rega CDP? haha lol
Using outputs for cd's? What does that mean? They sell dvd players in your supermarket?

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Originally Posted by audio4life View Post
Good to know your results on the comparison. BTW, it's basically useless to reveal one's comparison details. No matter how careful you are, the science-it-all-sounds-the-same crowd will fault you unless your result is that the 2 units sound the same. But for those of us who understand that we can trust our ears, and that music is not a science, I'm not surprised that the Sony was bested.
You mean that you place a lot of trust in others' ears or their descriptions on the internet? I don't trust most of others' tastes in clothing, food, cars, bikes, etc.....why would I trust your judgment in sound?
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Old 08-02-2014, 02:09 PM
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analogue output. You know, if all CD players and DVD players sound the same (they don't) then compare a £30 DVD player, analogue output to a Rega CD player analogue out.

But then you haven't listened to gear, you just listen to the one or two other people saying "all CD players and DVD players sound the same" It's boring.

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Old 08-02-2014, 02:22 PM
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Originally Posted by fatbottom View Post
analogue output. You know, if all CD players and DVD players sound the same (they don't) then compare a £30 DVD player, analogue output to a Rega CD player analogue out.

But then you haven't listened to gear, you just listen to the one or two other people saying "all CD players and DVD players sound the same" It's boring.
I don't generally use analog outputs on my digital players unless I've got an analog-only preamp (in one setup I have just that). Just wasn't sure what you meant since you speak that strange version of english over there like calling a receiver an av amp. My experience is there is not a lot of difference in DACs, though but I do let my avr handle the DAC duty in three other setups. Thanks for clarification. Listening to/comparing gear is very hard to do without proper setup which I am very doubtful you have ever bothered to do yourself....

"I realize that somebody playing free music isn't as commercial as a hamburger stand. But is it because you can eat a hamburger and hold it in your hand and you can't do that with music? Is it too free to control?" - Don Van Vliet (aka Captain Beefheart) discussing commercial success in the music biz


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Old 08-02-2014, 02:33 PM
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Actually it's English, since I'm from England and not a colony.. You know next time at least try and not make a fool of yourself. Oh right you are doubtful I have tried many sources. Delusional now? I have owned Rotel, Sony, Marantz, Rega CD players.

But of course your bias towards "all sources sound the same" result in just buying the cheapest and nastiest DVD player..

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Old 08-02-2014, 04:25 PM
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Beware of trolls...they know not what they do, but are known to scream loudly and often,

I don't need snobs to tell me how to think, thank you!
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Old 08-02-2014, 05:10 PM
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Originally Posted by lovinthehd View Post
Using outputs for cd's? What does that mean? They sell dvd players in your supermarket?



You mean that you place a lot of trust in others' ears or their descriptions on the internet? I don't trust most of others' tastes in clothing, food, cars, bikes, etc.....why would I trust your judgment in sound?
That's your take away from what I said? Because that's not what I said or meant. But hey, believe what you want...
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Old 08-03-2014, 09:44 AM
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Originally Posted by audio4life View Post
You may somehow be missing my point, but I'm not missing the point made by fmw. He claims that the Ayre player may be producing "higher volume levels" than the Sony, thus fooling the listener into thinking it's superior SQ, when it's only volume. I'm simply pointing out that he doesn't really know what the volume was set at (at the preamp volume knob) for either unit.
Despite your claim that you're not missing the point made by FMW, he was talking about level matched comparison which you have completely missed the point of.
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Old 08-03-2014, 09:48 AM
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Actually it's English, since I'm from England and not a colony.. You know next time at least try and not make a fool of yourself. Oh right you are doubtful I have tried many sources. Delusional now? I have owned Rotel, Sony, Marantz, Rega CD players.

But of course your bias towards "all sources sound the same" result in just buying the cheapest and nastiest DVD player..
Can't debate the main point so you resort to personal attacks.
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Old 08-03-2014, 10:16 AM
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Despite your claim that you're not missing the point made by FMW, he was talking about level matched comparison which you have completely missed the point of.
No, you're mistaken, that's what I was referring to when I asked him how he knew what the volume levels were. He assumed that the volume levels were not matched, and I asked how he knew what the volume levels were set at.
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Old 08-03-2014, 10:25 AM
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You both are missing the point.
Furthermore, if you are going make such trolling posts as this, why bother at all? You make an incomplete statement, that is, assert something without at least some kind of basic attempt to explain what you thought was missed.

Then your above claim that FB is making a personal attack conveniently ignores that a slight was made at Brits, which was a personal attack aimed at him. And what is there to debate? I mean really? The two sides are convinced that they are right. I've seen it play out time after mind numbing time on this forum, and it's probably a big reason why this site has seen fewer visits over the last year. Too much nonsense and not enough attempts to help people. I know I've made a couple of other audio sites my go to instead of this one because of snickering posts like yours.
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Old 08-03-2014, 01:44 PM
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Originally Posted by audio4life View Post
No, you're mistaken, that's what I was referring to when I asked him how he knew what the volume levels were. He assumed that the volume levels were not matched, and I asked how he knew what the volume levels were set at.
You still don't get it. Read from the beginning of this thread and it may dawn on you what FMW is talking about.
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Old 08-03-2014, 01:54 PM
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"You still don't get it. Read from the beginning of this thread and it may dawn on you what FMW is talking about."

Seriously, stop trolling. And it's a rather weak attempt at that.



Quote:
Originally Posted by fatbottom View Post
Actually it's English, since I'm from England and not a colony.. You know next time at least try and not make a fool of yourself. Oh right you are doubtful I have tried many sources. Delusional now? I have owned Rotel, Sony, Marantz, Rega CD players.

But of course your bias towards "all sources sound the same" result in just buying the cheapest and nastiest DVD player..
You know, I'd love to listen to some of the systems owned by the " everything sounds the same" crowd. Check the cables, connections and see what kind of throwaway items they use since it all sounds the same. We'd probably get a good chuckle out of it!
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Old 08-03-2014, 04:40 PM
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Originally Posted by audio4life View Post
Furthermore, if you are going make such trolling posts as this, why bother at all? You make an incomplete statement, that is, assert something without at least some kind of basic attempt to explain what you thought was missed.

Then your above claim that FB is making a personal attack conveniently ignores that a slight was made at Brits, which was a personal attack aimed at him. And what is there to debate? I mean really? The two sides are convinced that they are right. I've seen it play out time after mind numbing time on this forum, and it's probably a big reason why this site has seen fewer visits over the last year. Too much nonsense and not enough attempts to help people. I know I've made a couple of other audio sites my go to instead of this one because of snickering posts like yours.
Do you even know what level matching is?

I was teasing the fat one about his invented terms (av amp for receiver, "hifi" for a 2 ch rig). We're just the colonies to our colonial friend here apparently. My point was he probably has not done meaningful comparisons. Subjective, yes, but that's of little use to many.
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Old 08-04-2014, 07:23 AM
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It's true that the sound level of SACDs with the Ayre is lower, but I compensate for the higher level of CDs. It's also true, however, that the sound with the Ayre is so clean it encourages listening at higher sound levels.

db
Without a blind, level matched comparison, it doesn't mean much.
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Old 08-04-2014, 07:25 AM
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Originally Posted by audio4life View Post
You may somehow be missing my point, but I'm not missing the point made by fmw. He claims that the Ayre player may be producing "higher volume levels" than the Sony, thus fooling the listener into thinking it's superior SQ, when it's only volume. I'm simply pointing out that he doesn't really know what the volume was set at (at the preamp volume knob) for either unit.
That is why I used the term probably.
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Old 08-04-2014, 10:29 AM
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Without a blind, level matched comparison, it doesn't mean much.
Actually, FMW, I really don't much care. I had intended to give my impressions, not a review. Someone had posted that they would be interested in my observations once I installed the Ayre in my system, and that's what I responding to. My grad and post-doc work was in psychoacoustics, so I'm fully aware how easy it is to be fooled by level changes. I now regret having posted my observations. Let's just say I've replaced the Sony XA5400ES with the Ayre C-5xeMP in my main system and moved the Sony to another system. I'm happy with that move, and that's what counts with me.

db
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Old 08-04-2014, 11:15 AM
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I just noticed you have some Parasound Halo gear, nice! The A21 was my first move into realizing that all amps do not sound the same after getting the Oppo 95. With the P7, I'm getting more out of the Oppo than by using it directly into the A21, it's a great combo.
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