Audiophile CD Player? Which One? - Page 26 - AVS Forum
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post #751 of 761 Old Yesterday, 12:19 PM
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Originally Posted by dbphd View Post
I already anticipate that arnyk will belittle the piled higher and deeper appellation and tell everyone my judgement is flawed.
Your judgement isn't flawed. I would have came up with the same judgement if I listened to those components at unmatched level. But when you match them, something else may happen which you should try.
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post #752 of 761 Old Yesterday, 12:23 PM
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Originally Posted by koturban View Post
bias-controlled listening test?
Huh? What is that?

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post #753 of 761 Old Yesterday, 11:00 PM
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Originally Posted by dbphd View Post
But at some point, digital must be converted to analog.
Of course and the right place to do that is as close to the listener as possible.


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I input the analog output of my Ayre and Oppo to an analog stereo preamp, a Parasound JC-2. While the JC-2 was away for a by-pass mod, I listened to stereo with the Oppo 105 connected directly to Proceed HPA amps. The sound was very good, but lacked the transparency of the Ayre, the ability to make a singer seem as though he's standing between the KEF 107/2s.

Two obvious problems - no level matching and not a bias-controlled listening test.


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I already anticipate that arnyk will belittle the piled higher and deeper appellation and tell everyone my judgement is flawed.
Let me be clear: My judgement is flawed by my limitations and my biases and it always has been that way. I've been an audiophile since I was 13, and I became aware of this not long after that phase of my life started.

Maybe you are that much better than I am, but... ?


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Nevertheless I post, because it should be obvious that bit-perfect from a disc player only leaves analog conversion to some other component, and that component may not be as capable as the analog processing of the disc player.
All things are possible, but back in the real world a good system design exploits the system's critical components such the DAC as much as possible.

Therefore, sharing the DAC among as many source components as possible makes a lot of sense especially if you believe that there are strong audible differences among DACs and you have to spend a lot of money to get a good one.

In my world sonically transparent DACs run about a buck in production quantities. There are other benefits to sharing the DAC and putting it as close to the listener as possible, and I still seek to obtain those benefits.
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post #754 of 761 Old Today, 11:34 AM
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Originally Posted by arnyk View Post
Two obvious problems - no level matching and not a bias-controlled listening test.
I was simply listening to music, not performing a listening test. No 2AFC nor plotting results as an ROC. Just listening to a particular disc and coming to the conclusion that I couldn't envision Pete Seeger sitting between the speakers with the Oppo as I could with the Ayre. To me, the Oppo sounded very good, just not as natural.

I became interested in audio when I first heard the Capital recording of Popular Instruments in Full Dimensional Sound on a neighbor's JBL corner loaded folded horn speaker driven by a amp he had designed. The recording was monaural, of course, and the amp had a separate box for the power supply with tubes that blinked with voltage demand. It was a revelation to a teenager. Then I began haunting the new "HiFi" shops in Westwood and Santa Monica, lusting after the Fisher and MacIntosh electronics, the Bozak Concert Grand, JBL folded horns, and ElectroVoice Patricians, speakers that would fall to the AR3 which was much more practical for the eventual stereo. So I've been around the block a few times too.

db
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Thorens TD 124, SME Series III arm with Ortofon SME 30 H cartridge into Parasound JC-3 phono stage
Ayre C-5xeMP & Oppo BDP-105
Parasound JC-2 preamp into Proceed HPA amps
KEF Reference 107/2 mains & 102 surrounds
Velodyne SMS-1 bass managers & a pair of HGS-15 subs
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post #755 of 761 Old Today, 11:40 AM
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I was simply listening to music, not performing a listening test. No 2AFC nor plotting results as an ROC. Just listening to a particular disc and coming to the conclusion that I couldn't envision Pete Seeger sitting between the speakers with the Oppo as I could with the Ayre.
Well, sure you did, but here's the thing: Match their output levels exactly, put a cloth over the front of them, and Pete Seeger will suddenly be in exactly the same place.

If you can't explain how it works, you can't say it doesn't.—The High-End Creed

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post #756 of 761 Old Today, 12:46 PM
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You guys keep stating everything sounds the same as if you've tried evrything. How about you guys do your own DBT between those two units dbphd use and come up with actual graphs and tests instead of only basing your statement on theories.
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post #757 of 761 Old Today, 01:41 PM
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Quote:
You guys keep stating everything sounds the same as if you've tried evrything. How about you guys do your own DBT between those two units dbphd use and come up with actual graphs and tests instead of only basing your statement on theories.
Because we don't have to, any more than we have to test every human on the planet to say that no one can hear to 30 kHz. That's what science is—a set of general principles based on empirical evidence. And we have plenty of empirical evidence that the differences among almost all DACs (and the exceptions have serious problems) is too small to be heard by humans. This is such a mundane fact that you can find it in science textbooks.

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post #758 of 761 Old Today, 04:15 PM
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The earth is flat, anybody who doesn't believe that is an idiot... Until it was proven otherwise.

The universe revolves around Earth, anybody who doesn't believe that is an idiot... Until it was proven otherwise.

There are living being in Venus, anybody who doesn't believe that is an idiot... Until it was proven otherwise.

One can not travel beyond 50 mph without experiencing blackouts, anybody who doesn't believe that is an idiot... Until it was proven otherwise.

Coelacanth already extinct, anybody who doesn't believe that is an idiot... Until it was proven otherwise.

Pyramids were built by slaves, anybody who doesn't believe that is an idiot... Until it was proven otherwise.

See where I'm going with this?

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post #759 of 761 Old Today, 05:01 PM
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Regarding audiophile cd players, this year I have spent much time w/ the following;
Rega- Saturn-R
Parasound- CD1
Aesthetix - Romulus
Audio Research (ARC)- CD9
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post #760 of 761 Old Today, 05:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Susilo View Post
The earth is flat, anybody who doesn't believe that is an idiot... Until it was proven otherwise.

The universe revolves around Earth, anybody who doesn't believe that is an idiot... Until it was proven otherwise.

There are living being in Venus, anybody who doesn't believe that is an idiot... Until it was proven otherwise.

One can not travel beyond 50 mph without experiencing blackouts, anybody who doesn't believe that is an idiot... Until it was proven otherwise.

Coelacanth already extinct, anybody who doesn't believe that is an idiot... Until it was proven otherwise.

Pyramids were built by slaves, anybody who doesn't believe that is an idiot... Until it was proven otherwise.

See where I'm going with this?
Sure:

People can hear a difference between DACs, anybody who doesn't believe that is an idiot... Until it was proven otherwise.

If you can't explain how it works, you can't say it doesn't.—The High-End Creed

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post #761 of 761 Old Today, 05:16 PM
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This is not directed at either side of the "argument" (subjective vs objective), but I found it pretty funny: Audiophiles

Enjoy!
Sheep

P.S. Be sure to hover over the image for an added bonus joke.
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