Getting Into Vinyl! - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 12 Old 10-15-2013, 08:38 AM - Thread Starter
Newbie
 
iKokomo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 9
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10

I have a really cheap USB turntable and as my collection grows, I am looking to upgrade the player! Now, I do not have a huge budget but I did some research and I was wondering what you guys think of these two models?

Audio Technica AT-LP60 
Pioneer PL-990

Another questions what is the difference (besides USB and direct drive) between LP 60 and the Audio-Technica AT-LP120? 

Is there any other player I should look for? 

What about used? I know that can be iffy, but my dad has a nice older Sony one that works well and if I could find one in good shape I would not mind something like that as well. 

Thanks a lot!

iKokomo is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 12 Old 10-15-2013, 08:54 AM
AVS Special Member
 
mcnarus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 6,017
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 22 Post(s)
Liked: 270
Quote:
I have a really cheap USB turntable and as my collection grows, I am looking to upgrade the player! Now, I do not have a huge budget but I did some research and I was wondering what you guys think of these two models?

Audio Technica AT-LP60
Pioneer PL-990
Neither would offer much if any improvement over what you have now. Save your money.
Quote:
Another questions what is the difference (besides USB and direct drive) between LP 60 and the Audio-Technica AT-LP120?
The key difference is that the 120 comes with a much better cartridge. It will both sound better and cause less wear on your records. Also, you can upgrade the cartridge, which you can't do on either of the tables you listed. The 120 is my top recommendation for a starter budget table.
Quote:
What about used?
Used is great if you know what to look for. No offense, but your questions suggest you might not. Also, while a used table might be working OK, it may require a new cartridge, which takes a bit of know-how to replace.

If you can't explain how it works, you can't say it doesn't.—The High-End Creed

mcnarus is offline  
post #3 of 12 Old 10-15-2013, 11:45 AM - Thread Starter
Newbie
 
iKokomo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 9
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10

Na I understand! So the Technica AT-LP120 is a pretty good player?

iKokomo is offline  
post #4 of 12 Old 10-15-2013, 01:16 PM
AVS Special Member
 
mcnarus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 6,017
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 22 Post(s)
Liked: 270
Well, "pretty good" is in the eye of the beholder. It's a respectable table, and a worthy upgrade from what you have now.

If you can't explain how it works, you can't say it doesn't.—The High-End Creed

mcnarus is offline  
post #5 of 12 Old 11-01-2013, 05:06 PM
AVS Special Member
 
bobpaule's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: US
Posts: 1,362
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 18
bobpaule is offline  
post #6 of 12 Old 11-04-2013, 08:48 AM
AVS Special Member
 
BruceD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Silicon Valley, CA USA
Posts: 1,064
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcnarus View Post

. . . . . . The 120 is my top recommendation for a starter budget table.
Used is great if you know what to look for. . . .

A question regarding your recommendation, is there real tangible benefit to the height adjust-ability of the 120 tonearm ?

Would you classify the 120 tonearm as a medium compliance tonearm, with fluid damping?

I currently have an old Panasonic SL-D2 TT (with a Grado Blue cartridge) that does not have height adjustments for the tonearm.

My SL-D2 tonearm is also a medium compliance tonearm with fluid damping, correct?
BruceD is offline  
post #7 of 12 Old 11-04-2013, 09:26 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
arnyk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Grosse Pointe Woods, MI
Posts: 13,885
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 439 Post(s)
Liked: 1062
Quote:
Originally Posted by BruceD View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by mcnarus View Post

. . . . . . The 120 is my top recommendation for a starter budget table.
Used is great if you know what to look for. . . .

A question regarding your recommendation, is there real tangible benefit to the height adjust-ability of the 120 tonearm ?

A tone arm with height adjustment can be adjusted more optimally for cartridges whose height varies. The tone arm needs to be level to get optimal Vertical Tracking Angle (VTA). Proper VTA is required for lowest possible distortion.

http://www.hi-fiworld.co.uk/vinyl-lp/37-technology/73-vertical-tracking-angle.html

"High levels of distortion are produced on stereo recordings from errors of what is known as Vertical Tracking Angle in a cartridge..."
Quote:
Would you classify the 120 tonearm as a medium compliance tonearm, with fluid damping?

I don't think that the 120 tonearm has fluid damping. Tone arms don't have compliance, Cartridges have compliance. I think you may mean medium mass, which the SL120 arm is.
arnyk is online now  
post #8 of 12 Old 11-04-2013, 12:15 PM
AVS Special Member
 
mcnarus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 6,017
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 22 Post(s)
Liked: 270
Quote:
A question regarding your recommendation, is there real tangible benefit to the height adjust-ability of the 120 tonearm ?
Yes, although a lot of low-end and even entry-level high-end turntables ignore this feature.
Quote:
Would you classify the 120 tonearm as a medium compliance tonearm, with fluid damping?
As Arny says, it's probably medium-mass, although AT doesn't specify tonearm effective mass. (One of my minor beefs about AT is its somewhat skimpy spec sheets—though that's hardly unique among turntable manufacturers.)

It certainly isn't fluid damped. That's a feature I suspect you only see on much better tables.
Quote:
My SL-D2 tonearm is also a medium compliance tonearm with fluid damping, correct?
I'm afraid I'm not familiar with that unit. Do a search on vinylengine.com.

If you can't explain how it works, you can't say it doesn't.—The High-End Creed

mcnarus is offline  
post #9 of 12 Old 11-04-2013, 02:31 PM
AVS Special Member
 
jdcrox's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Cape Cod, MA
Posts: 1,988
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 24 Post(s)
Liked: 57
I am not aware of any of the consumer-level Technics tables that have fluid damping. Even the SL1200 does not, although you can get it as a after-market accessory.
They do have fluid damped cueing, which maybe what is misleading.
jdcrox is online now  
post #10 of 12 Old 11-04-2013, 04:53 PM
AVS Special Member
 
BruceD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Silicon Valley, CA USA
Posts: 1,064
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 29
Certainly shows I'm not well versed on turntable terminology.

Correct, no fluid damped arms (just hydraulic cueing), I didn't understand that.

Also, the Panasonic tonearm at 12g (user manual) is likely labeled a medium mass tonearm, correct ?
I don't know if the Grado Blue cartiridge is a low compliance or high compliance cartridge.

With a medium mass tonearm, is there a preference for a low compliance or high compliance cartridge ?

Guess I'll use a test record to test the Panasonic/Grado compatibility.
BruceD is offline  
post #11 of 12 Old 11-04-2013, 06:37 PM
AVS Special Member
 
mcnarus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 6,017
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 22 Post(s)
Liked: 270
Quote:
Also, the Panasonic tonearm at 12g (user manual) is likely labeled a medium mass tonearm, correct ?
I don't know if the Grado Blue cartiridge is a low compliance or high compliance cartridge.

With a medium mass tonearm, is there a preference for a low compliance or high compliance cartridge ?
Not sure what's considered low, medium or high anymore. True low-mass arms are rare these days, as are high-compliance carts, so serious mismatches are infrequent.

In your case:

Tonearm effective mass (TEM) = 12g
Cartridge weight (CW) = 5.5g
Cartridge compliance (CC) = 20cu

Resonant frequency = 1000/(6.28*sqrt((TEM+CW)*CC) = 8.5 Hz

That should be high enough to avoid any problems.
BruceD likes this.

If you can't explain how it works, you can't say it doesn't.—The High-End Creed

mcnarus is offline  
post #12 of 12 Old 11-05-2013, 07:52 AM
AVS Special Member
 
BruceD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Silicon Valley, CA USA
Posts: 1,064
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcnarus View Post


. . . .

Resonant frequency = 1000/(6.28*sqrt((TEM+CW)*CC) = 8.5 Hz

That should be high enough to avoid any problems.

Thanks, great info !! Especially the calculation algorithm.
BruceD is offline  
Reply CD Players & Dedicated Music Transports

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off