How Do You Know What's Wrong With The Laser and? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 33 Old 11-09-2013, 10:19 AM - Thread Starter
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I have several Kinergetics CD players. I keep having the laser or turntable go bad with them, so I've been getting transports from old magnavox cd players. My Kinergetics use 1541 or 1543 DAC's and CDM2 or CDM4 turntables. Used to be cheap and easy to find what in needed, but lately it's getting both costly and harder to find.

What I've noticed is that maybe the laser isnt as bad as I might have thought. I have one KCD20 that was upgraded with the KCD40 chips. I have a lot of problems playing some albums, while others play just fine. I have one album that always seems to work and after I play it, several others that didnt play will play just fine.

Some CD's play for a few songs and then they either start to skip or sound funny.

My questions are:

How can I tell if the problems is the laser going bad, not enough power or out of alignment?

Since you cant get new turntables from Magnavox, (I wish some guy in China would start making them), is it possible to simply by a new laser and put it in the old turntable?

Is there away to get new stuff that would work for years.

I wish someone would find away to fix these wonderful old CD players, because many of them work as good or better then most anything under a couple of grand.

Kinergetics KCD40 and KCD 20/40
Robertson 6010 & 4010
Chiro C800
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post #2 of 33 Old 11-09-2013, 12:34 PM
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Somebody needs to square this circle:
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I have several Kinergetics CD players. I keep having the laser or turntable go bad with them
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I wish someone would find away to fix these wonderful old CD players, because many of them work as good or better then most anything under a couple of grand.
For the record, I have a 9-year-old Panasonic DVD player that I purchased for $80. It still works perfectly, and sounds just as good as yours.

If you can't explain how it works, you can't say it doesn't.—The High-End Creed

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post #3 of 33 Old 11-09-2013, 03:42 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by mcnarus View Post

Somebody needs to square this circle:

For the record, I have a 9-year-old Panasonic DVD player that I purchased for $80. It still works perfectly, and sounds just as good as yours.

Right now it sounds better. Most of my stuff isnt working to well.

Actually, how would you know if your DVD sounds better then my stuff? smile.gif

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post #4 of 33 Old 11-09-2013, 04:04 PM
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Actually, how would you know if your DVD sounds better then my stuff?
I didn't say better. I said just as good. CD reproduction was pretty much perfected more than two decades ago. Sine then, no one's been able to tell them apart in a blind test.

My point was that it would make more sense to just buy some new, inexpensive players than to keep trying to fix the stuff you have. Of course, if you enjoy fixing old gear, then the "sensible" approach" might not be right for you. To each his own, right?

If you can't explain how it works, you can't say it doesn't.—The High-End Creed

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post #5 of 33 Old 11-09-2013, 04:48 PM - Thread Starter
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I have several different brands of DVD's and CD players. I have no trouble telling the good stuff from the rest.

I'd still like some answers to my original questions.

Kinergetics KCD40 and KCD 20/40
Robertson 6010 & 4010
Chiro C800
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post #6 of 33 Old 11-09-2013, 06:22 PM
 
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Originally Posted by nickm11 View Post

I have several different brands of DVD's and CD players. I have no trouble telling the good stuff from the rest.
A lot of people can in sighted casual auditioning but not in level matched double blind test.
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post #7 of 33 Old 11-09-2013, 06:42 PM - Thread Starter
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Why are you highjacking my thread?

Please stop, I want some answers to my questions.

Kinergetics KCD40 and KCD 20/40
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post #8 of 33 Old 11-09-2013, 06:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nickm11 View Post

I have several different brands of DVD's and CD players. I have no trouble telling the good stuff from the rest.

I'd still like some answers to my original questions.
What you actually hear and what you think you hear are not always the same thing.

I don't need snobs to tell me how to think, thank you!
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post #9 of 33 Old 11-10-2013, 05:05 AM
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Originally Posted by nickm11 View Post

Why are you highjacking my thread?

Please stop, I want some answers to my questions.

It's an answer of sorts. You are obviously going way out of your way to make trouble for yourself, but the alternative view is that this is a hobby and to some degree illogically going out of your way can be one of the fun parts of the game.

The fuller answer to your question is that you appear to not yet have taken the logical step of obtaining any service manual(s) for your CD player(s) or even any CD player of similar construction or era.

You can obtain them from equipment manufacturers, and you can download many of them in PDF format.

Here is one source: http://www.eserviceinfo.com/index.php

Anyway, these little books answer the kinds of questions that you are asking now.

Specifically there are devices called Laser Power Meters that are used by service technicians to evaluate the condition of lasers in CD players. Leader Instruments lpm 8000 is one such unit,

http://www.tequipment.net/LeaderLPM-8000.asp



There are others. Service manuals and Google are your friends. You can deduce some things about the condition of the laser from the eye pattern.
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post #10 of 33 Old 11-10-2013, 04:56 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanx for the help, it's a place to start.

And if anyone else is reading this, I have no trouble telling the difference between my KCD20/40 and my KCD40. The 20/40 has a bit softer sound and the 40 is a bit better on clarity.

Kinergetics KCD40 and KCD 20/40
Robertson 6010 & 4010
Chiro C800
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post #11 of 33 Old 11-10-2013, 05:36 PM
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Originally Posted by nickm11 View Post

Thanx for the help, it's a place to start.

And if anyone else is reading this, I have no trouble telling the difference between my KCD20/40 and my KCD40. The 20/40 has a bit softer sound and the 40 is a bit better on clarity.

Are they level-matched?

For every new thing I learn, I forget two things I used to know.
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post #12 of 33 Old 11-10-2013, 05:56 PM
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And if anyone else is reading this, I have no trouble telling the difference between my KCD20/40 and my KCD40.
Sure, cuz you can see them. And because their output levels are probably somewhat different, which also makes them easy to distinguish. Control for those two factors, and you wouldn't stand a chance.

If you can't explain how it works, you can't say it doesn't.—The High-End Creed

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post #13 of 33 Old 11-10-2013, 09:24 PM
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And if anyone else is reading this, I have no trouble telling the difference between my KCD20/40 and my KCD40. The 20/40 has a bit softer sound and the 40 is a bit better on clarity.

If you want help, stop making statements not supported by anything but your opinion and not evidence.
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post #14 of 33 Old 11-10-2013, 09:37 PM - Thread Starter
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Are they level-matched?

All Kinergetics CD players have volume pots, so they are perfectly matched.

Kinergetics KCD40 and KCD 20/40
Robertson 6010 & 4010
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post #15 of 33 Old 11-11-2013, 05:06 AM - Thread Starter
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Is there away to tell if the laser is getting weak vs out of alignment just by the way it functions with different kinds of CDs?

Kinergetics KCD40 and KCD 20/40
Robertson 6010 & 4010
Chiro C800
Kinergetics Subwoofer
Martin Logan Aerius I
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post #16 of 33 Old 11-11-2013, 07:51 AM
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All Kinergetics CD players have volume pots, so they are perfectly matched.
Look, just stop digging, OK? When you use terms you don't understand, you just embarrass yourself.

If you can't explain how it works, you can't say it doesn't.—The High-End Creed

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post #17 of 33 Old 11-11-2013, 07:55 AM
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Originally Posted by nickm11 View Post

Is there away to tell if the laser is getting weak vs out of alignment just by the way it functions with different kinds of CDs?

Ever wonder why there are such things as laser power meters? ;-)

Ever follow up on my recommendation that you get a service manual?
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post #18 of 33 Old 11-11-2013, 07:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcnarus View Post

Quote:
All Kinergetics CD players have volume pots, so they are perfectly matched.
Look, just stop digging, OK? When you use terms you don't understand, you just embarrass yourself.

Right. The fact that they have volume pots means that one or more of the pots could be out of adjustment and then they aren't matched.

Just another thing that a good Service Manual can clarify...
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post #19 of 33 Old 11-11-2013, 09:27 AM - Thread Starter
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Just what I was hoping for, a friendly board where you can ask questions and get good answers.

I got the manuals for CDM2's, but that doesnt mean I know enough to work with them, but then I did come here to learn.

BTW, does matching the CD Players with a sound meter count?

Kinergetics KCD40 and KCD 20/40
Robertson 6010 & 4010
Chiro C800
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post #20 of 33 Old 11-11-2013, 09:50 AM
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BTW, does matching the CD Players with a sound meter count?
Nope. Not precise enough. You need a voltmeter at the speaker terminals.

If you can't explain how it works, you can't say it doesn't.—The High-End Creed

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post #21 of 33 Old 11-11-2013, 10:36 AM - Thread Starter
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Speakers arent the same, so a voltmeter would be a waste of time. Not to mention amps my not put out the exact same voltage. I may not be a tech genius like you guys, but I used to design some really nice home theater systems in the past.

Let me know when your done playing with your egos and want to start passing on some real info, assuming you really know something?

Kinergetics KCD40 and KCD 20/40
Robertson 6010 & 4010
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post #22 of 33 Old 11-11-2013, 11:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nickm11 View Post

Speakers arent the same, so a voltmeter would be a waste of time. Not to mention amps my not put out the exact same voltage. I may not be a tech genius like you guys, but I used to design some really nice home theater systems in the past.

Let me know when your done playing with your egos and want to start passing on some real info, assuming you really know something?

Lol why take the time to learn anything when remaining ignorant is instantaneous.

Let us know when you are ready to stop believing in magic and perhaps we can have a useful dialog.

I don't need snobs to tell me how to think, thank you!
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post #23 of 33 Old 11-11-2013, 11:09 AM
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Speakers arent the same, so a voltmeter would be a waste of time.
You don't even use the same speakers when you're comparing CD players? eek.gif
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Not to mention amps my not put out the exact same voltage.
That's what the volume knob is for, bucko.
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I may not be a tech genius like you guys
Please don't tempt us like this. We're only human.
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but I used to design some really nice home theater systems in the past.
Not professionally, I hope.

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post #24 of 33 Old 11-11-2013, 11:46 AM
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Point of order

the OP was asking for help: if you can help him, please do so

as to the rest of the replies....they are not so helpful

tia

please take the high road in every post
if you see a problematic post, please do not quote it or respond to it: report it to the mods to handle
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post #25 of 33 Old 11-11-2013, 11:57 AM
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Originally Posted by nickm11 View Post


Is there away to get new stuff that would work for years.
 

This one will probably hold up for a few years:

http://www.burmester.de/en/Products/069-CD-Player.html


Downloadable FREE demo discs:
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1475769/de...ently-authored 

Did you really need to quote that entire post in your reply?
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post #26 of 33 Old 11-11-2013, 12:35 PM
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Originally Posted by nickm11 View Post

Just what I was hoping for, a friendly board where you can ask questions and get good answers.

I got the manuals for CDM2's, but that doesnt mean I know enough to work with them, but then I did come here to learn.

BTW, does matching the CD Players with a sound meter count?

My advice is to go back to the advice you first received which is that you replace the old gear with something new and modern. You have neither the equipment nor knowlege to service an old CD player. Any modern blu ray player will handle your CD's exactly like your old CD player as well as handling other disc formats. If you want something with a reputation for long term reliability then I can recommend the Oppo blu ray players such as the 103. If $500 is more than your budget then any blu ray player will perform the same function in the same way as any CD player and cost only $70 to $100.

My initial impression from reading the thread is that you made a hobby of collecting and fixing old CD players. I'm now of the opinion that you want to put an old unit that cost a pretty penny back into service. I understand your attraction to some old gear that served you well but I suggest you look past that. My sincere advice is to abandon the service work and just go get a new blu ray player and be done with it.
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post #27 of 33 Old 11-11-2013, 01:03 PM
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What FMW says, with one addendum: If you really want to fix things, then you probably need to invest some time in learning to read and use service manuals, and then acquiring the equipment you need to do the work. Sounds to me you're looking for a short cut here, which is understandable, but I don't think it works that way.

It may also have occurred to you that you're asking in the wrong place. There are probably electronics repair/tinkering sites around the Internets, but this isn't one of them. Heck, a lot of us don't even use CD players anymore. Fixing one wouldn't make sense to us.

If you can't explain how it works, you can't say it doesn't.—The High-End Creed

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post #28 of 33 Old 11-11-2013, 02:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nickm11 View Post

Speakers aren't the same, so a voltmeter would be a waste of time.

If you apply the same voltage to the same speakers their output is the same. Doesn't matter which speakers, just the same speakers.

Trying to do even vaguely serious work of the type you have been contemplating takes a voltmeter in the same sense that cooking takes heat.
Quote:
Not to mention amps my not put out the exact same voltage.

That's what the voltmeter is for - make sure that the amps put out the same voltage.
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I may not be a tech genius like you guys, but I used to design some really nice home theater systems in the past.

You've got attitude kid, and it seems pretty useless to share the wisdom of the ages with you, given that you designed those really nice HT system and know it all in your own eyes.

You do not have to be a tech genius, but you can follow the humble advice of people who have making this stuff work for decades, or not.
Quote:
Let me know when your done playing with your egos and want to start passing on some real info, assuming you really know something?

And you want to complain about egos?

LOL!
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post #29 of 33 Old 11-11-2013, 05:05 PM - Thread Starter
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It would appear none of you are any smarter then I, because you dont have the answers to the my questions. At least I was smart enough to ask the questions.

Kinergetics KCD40 and KCD 20/40
Robertson 6010 & 4010
Chiro C800
Kinergetics Subwoofer
Martin Logan Aerius I
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post #30 of 33 Old 11-11-2013, 05:22 PM
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It would appear none of you are any smarter then I, because you dont have the answers to the my questions. At least I was smart enough to ask the questions.
No, most of us don't know any more than you about fixing defective CD players than you do.

But then, we're not smart enough to try. smile.gif

If you can't explain how it works, you can't say it doesn't.—The High-End Creed

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