Differences in SQ of Ethernet Cable Challenge - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 111 Old 06-12-2014, 12:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 67jason View Post

its a shame because I'd love to hang out and chat audio with fellow polk enthusiasts, but the club polk forum is a bastion of lunacy and a den of internet thugs.
The real shame is that the lunatics and thugs don't even use Polk speakers anymore, they are above that now.

And when folks do ask about Polks, they are told they will need "high current" separate power amps, and magical wires, to drive most of them. I'm sure they drive many people away from the brand.

Surprised Polk (the company) doesn't realize it.
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post #92 of 111 Old 06-12-2014, 07:04 PM
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Surprised Polk (the company) doesn't realize it.
I suspect they like being associated with the high end.

If you can't explain how it works, you can't say it doesn't.—The High-End Creed

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post #93 of 111 Old 06-15-2014, 07:59 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by WilliamZX11 View Post
Your talking to a guy who is willing to pay $600 for a .75 meter DB25 serial cable between his pre and amp. Even after the manufacturer says all it does is pass 5v to turn relays on and off. Do you expect reason?

He believes cleaning up the power will help, but he already uses Shunyata power cords on all his components. Didn't they already clean the power?
When I saw that about the DB25 cable I had a good laugh. There is a reason while he will never participate in SBT of cables.

I am thinking about trying to hit a few shows and get enough participation to get 50-60 people through an A/B 10 round trial of Ethernet cables.

BJC would be the baseline Ethernet and then some other ~$350 Ethernet cable.

Use an audience participation system where they have an A/B clicker in hand.

Before each hour session the 10 changes are pre-rolled and time to change randomly selected.

3-4 participants at a time. Using a pre-selected play list swap out cables. Participants would know which cable we are starting with and make their selection at will. There would be no break in playback. The switching would be truly instant.

Need to see if I could get sponsors
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post #94 of 111 Old 06-15-2014, 08:13 AM
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Why limit it to just network cables? Power cords, outlets, audio fuses, burn in, cd treatments, it's all nonsense.

That's what's so funny about that forum. They don't just believe some of the nonsense, they will buy anything that comes along, no matter how ridiculous.

But one of the participants does have a paper published in a food journal! Far as I know it's never been cited though...
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post #95 of 111 Old 06-16-2014, 03:05 PM
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Originally Posted by WilliamZX11 View Post
... Didn't they already clean the power?
Now he can claim "cleaned twice."
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post #96 of 111 Old 06-19-2014, 09:18 AM
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As expected, ZLTFUL starts calling other members names, his post is removed, and the thread is closed.

The Club Polk buddy system at work.

Wanna side bet as to whether this test ever happens at all? I'm willing to wager a lot more than $1600 that it doesn't.
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post #97 of 111 Old 06-19-2014, 05:37 PM
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I found this ironymeter-pegging quote particularly amusing:

Quote:
If you are going to discuss changes in spatial properties, I would expect something quantitative along the lines of "sound images at the left and right moved further out about 1 foot".
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post #98 of 111 Old 06-20-2014, 09:15 AM - Thread Starter
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There is a fundamental problem that ZLTFUL is taking the corrections of his misunderstanding of the papers and write ups he's linking to, well, personally.

He used the term 'Degrade and Insult'.

I pointed out to him that the last paper he linked to he interpreted incorrectly:

Traces of Internet packets from the past two years show that
between 1 packet in 1,100 and 1 packet in 32,000 fails the
TCP checksum,


Then this:


After an analysis we conclude that the checksum will fail
to detect errors for roughly 1 in 16 million to 10 billion
packets.


He misses my post PRIOR to the linked article where I said applications higher in the OSI stack can do their own error checking and correction. All outside of CRC on the link and TCP etc...

He misunderstands:

Traces of Internet packets from the past two years show that
between 1 packet in 1,100 and 1 packet in 32,000 fails the
TCP checksum


In regards to the failed packets: He will not admit that in this case that TCP did it's job, caught the error and, this is key here, CORRECTED it. It's a fundamental failure in understanding.

The only way something can report the failed checksum is that it's a KNOWN failure which means it's been a trapped/caught error and again corrected.

Then to add insult to injury he conflates this with:

After an analysis we conclude that the checksum will fail
to detect errors for roughly 1 in 16 million to 10 billion
packets.


So he totally ignores the fact that the paper was dealing with Internet (WAN) vs LAN. He totally ignores the fact that if we consider 1500Kbit packets and use the 10 billion number in a LAN only, Server to switch to client vs 30 hops,

We are talking about an ONE unrecoverable error every 146484MB or 143GB of music transferred. Even at full PCM that is one totally dropped 1.5Kbyte worth of data ~225 16/44.1 albums.

And I'm denigrating someone for pointing out the math?
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post #99 of 111 Old 06-30-2014, 08:00 PM - Thread Starter
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Now there is a contingent there that believe perfect 1:1 digital copies are nigh impossible. One teaches EE at a small college none the less.

I posted a PDF file with MD5 hash and none there will install the checksum application, download the PDF, generate the hash and post the hash file back to the thread.
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post #100 of 111 Old 06-30-2014, 11:00 PM
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You clearly don't understand magical thinking.

Science knows nothing, anything is possible, and everything matters. Got it?
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post #101 of 111 Old 07-23-2014, 07:11 PM
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Sorry this is just straight retarded... I laughed almost as hard as when I read that someone can tell a difference in sound over different USB cables!!

PLEASE!!!
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post #102 of 111 Old 07-24-2014, 08:23 AM - Thread Starter
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Far as I know I am still on for September 27th...
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post #103 of 111 Old 07-24-2014, 12:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habanero Monk View Post
Far as I know I am still on for September 27th...
But, that is 2 month away. Lot can happen in the meantime. Don't forget to breath in the meantime.
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post #104 of 111 Old 07-27-2014, 07:05 PM
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I just read through that thread dealing with digital cables (and subsequently Ethernet) and saw Habanero just tear Darque Knight up. It was great when DK started comparing audio as packets on a ship to car parts on a ship and asking: Are you shipping cars or are you shipping parts.

The factually correct and totally logical retort from H.M. was not only are they parts. Not only are they not arriving in real time. Not only are they not arriving TOGETHER. Not only are they not coming on the even the same ship. Not only are they not getting assembled at the same time, BUUUUUUUT!

Wait for this: The guy driving the car off the lot has no fargin' CLUE that all that happened prior. All he knows is he has a car that meets all the specifications his car is supposed to meet and he'll be darned if it doesn't turn over and run like it should

Instant EPIC and instant classic thread.

So what is one to do? Switch analogies to making cake and try to put as many pages between the hammering received... Amazing.

Next time try offering them two sets of cables: Two burned in and Two not burned in for 30 days. Totally sighted, totally self administered (zero pressure of someone over their shoulder) and they can have them in for as short or long a period as they wish.

Thanks for the laugh. They are always willing to deliver. Watching good ole Raife trying to explain how it's real time audio on a non-realtime system was just mind boggling. You'd think they guy would know better. The problem with trying to hoodwink someone is that they may know what they are talking about.

Good luck getting the $1600 when ZLTFUL falls flat on his face. Have some witnesses to the flameout and subsequent crash.
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An audiophile likes to talk about how much they spent and how good it sounds.

A DIY'er likes to talk about how little they spent and how good it sounds.

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post #105 of 111 Old 08-28-2014, 01:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarqueKnight View Post


The way some of you carry on, I'd swear it was your money being spent.
its not about the money. its the spreading of misinformation and audiophoole myths that cause folk to bring the hammer down.

I don't need snobs to tell me how to think, thank you!
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post #106 of 111 Old 08-29-2014, 01:20 AM
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A whole LOT of posts have been removed. Bickering and discussing other forums. Not sure what any of that has to do with the topic. SO, from here on out, discuss the topic and not each other and not other forums.

Walking the fine line between jaw-dropping and a plain ol' yawn.
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post #107 of 111 Old 08-29-2014, 01:35 PM
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Uh...the whole thread is nothing but bickering about another forum. Not sure why the whole thread wasn't deleted but again, shows a distinctive double standard of *your* members being held to one standard while *theirs* are held to another.
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post #108 of 111 Old 09-01-2014, 01:16 PM
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Originally Posted by ZLTFUL View Post
Uh...the whole thread is nothing but bickering about another forum. Not sure why the whole thread wasn't deleted but again, shows a distinctive double standard of *your* members being held to one standard while *theirs* are held to another.
Perhaps this is just your biased point of view? Perhaps this would require a scientific study to verify it's true? Perhaps not.
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post #109 of 111 Old 09-28-2014, 03:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Habanero Monk View Post
I'm involved in a thread at PF about certain members there not understanding the mechanics behind computer based audio as it pertains from getting material over Ethernet.

Some are adamant that they can tell a difference in Ethernet that passes spec. So I offered up the following and want to see if their are any potential holes in the method for testing an individuals ability to simply discern a difference reliably:

My offer to the person(s):

A computer with two identical network cards. One card has what ever passes spec CAT5/6/7 you want (I would assume AQ would pass testing or we could take Kurt at BJC up on his offer to send one of your choice for validation) and one of his cables or other certified CAT6. You bring your cable and I'll bring mine.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Habanero Monk View Post
Far as I know I am still on for September 27th...

It is now September 28th. What were the results of the widely publicized Ethernet Cable Challenge?
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post #110 of 111 Old 09-28-2014, 06:30 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarqueKnight View Post
It is now September 28th. What were the results of the widely publicized Ethernet Cable Challenge?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jerim View Post

Wanna side bet as to whether this test ever happens at all? I'm willing to wager a lot more than $1600 that it doesn't.
Quote: Originally Posted by jerim

Do you have a date set yet Monk? He's now expressing concerns, he'll be backing out soon.


Quote: Originally Posted by jerim

And when you suggested June as a test date, he was busy every weekend.

You don't really think this will happen, do you?



I guess my emails to I guess my emails to saxman100 and saxman didn't make it through.

Last edited by Habanero Monk; 09-28-2014 at 06:53 PM.
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post #111 of 111 Old 09-28-2014, 07:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habanero Monk View Post
I guess my emails to I guess my emails to saxman100 and saxman didn't make it through.
It appears that two of your personalities were attempting to answer at the same time.


I have several email addresses, but "saxman100" and "saxman" are not among them.


Thanks for the update on the Ethernet Cable Challenge. I guess you won.
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