Oppo vs Sony for SACD, DVD-Audio, etc.? - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 14 Old 08-15-2017, 10:47 AM - Thread Starter
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Oppo vs Sony for SACD, DVD-Audio, etc.?

I'm having trouble understanding how players handle formats like SACD and DVD-Audio over HDMI (to my Onkyo TX-NR646). I would like the ability to play both formats in 5.1.

I've been looking at Oppo 970 and 981 - they seem similar for my needs, but I'm not 100% sure they will get SACD and DVD-Audio as 5.1 through my receiver. It appears that they don't do DSD bitstream, but their PCM via HDMI might work if it's 5.1

I'm also considering the Sony BDP-S6200, but I have similar questions about it.

Can anyone help and possibly make a recommendation based off what I'm looking for?
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post #2 of 14 Old 08-16-2017, 02:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ergalthema View Post
I'm having trouble understanding how players handle formats like SACD and DVD-Audio over HDMI (to my Onkyo TX-NR646). I would like the ability to play both formats in 5.1.

I've been looking at Oppo 970 and 981 - they seem similar for my needs, but I'm not 100% sure they will get SACD and DVD-Audio as 5.1 through my receiver. It appears that they don't do DSD bitstream, but their PCM via HDMI might work if it's 5.1

I'm also considering the Sony BDP-S6200, but I have similar questions about it.

Can anyone help and possibly make a recommendation based off what I'm looking for?
From the following link:

http://hometheaterhifi.com/volume_14...r-11-2007.html


Quote:
Thankfully, there is the Oppo DV-981HD, an upscaling DVD player, which supports both DVD-A and SACD playback over its HDMI 1.1 connection. For those keeping track, HDMI 1.1 supports DVD-Audio and multi-channel PCM, HDMI 1.2 supports native DSD for SACD, and HDMI 1.3 can handle a bitstream output for Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD. The Oppo handles SACD by converting it to PCM and then outputting it over its HDMI connection. (The 980H and 970HD will also do this.)
The Oppos will put out multi channel pcm over their hdmi 1.1 connections. If you want DSD you'll need to move up to Oppo's BDP players, starting with the Oppo-BDP-83. Given the age of their DVD players, you may want to get a more current BDP player.
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post #3 of 14 Old 08-16-2017, 05:48 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by glangford View Post
From the following link:

http://hometheaterhifi.com/volume_14...r-11-2007.html




The Oppos will put out multi channel pcm over their hdmi 1.1 connections. If you want DSD you'll need to move up to Oppo's BDP players, starting with the Oppo-BDP-83. Given the age of their DVD players, you may want to get a more current BDP player.
I want an older DVD player because they are cheap - I only care about SACD and DVD-A playback in 5.1 (even if it's just PCM via HDMI - doesn't have to be DSD). My main Blu-ray player is a Xbox One S.
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post #4 of 14 Old 08-16-2017, 12:07 PM
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I wouldn't worry about old DVD Players that used PCM rather than Native DSD via Analog Outputs....after all, internally the Oppo DV-970 and DV-980 could operate at up to 192 Ksps in Stereo...and likely at LEAST 48 Ksps in Surround....it's highly unlikely you can tell the difference.....

FYI: My old, low cost, Pioneer DV-563a Universal Disk Player supports DVD-A, SACD and even Region 2 PAL. No HDMI so you have to have ANALOG 5.1 RCA Jack Inputs on AVR....and since NO Bass Management, it's PURE DSD ALL THE WAY...right down to using ANALOG Output Filters.

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post #5 of 14 Old 08-16-2017, 12:10 PM - Thread Starter
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I've changed my tune a bit and I'm actually considering a Sony UBP-X800. I only have a Xbox One S for Blu-ray. It's looking like the Sony UBP-X800 does all the same as the Xbox plus SACD and DVD-A. So, I might get it and sell my Xbox.

I realize the Xbox might have better support for updates, but there are some things I don't like about it - navigating with a controller, some bugs/glitches, etc.
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post #6 of 14 Old 08-16-2017, 12:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ergalthema View Post
I've changed my tune a bit and I'm actually considering a Sony UBP-X800. I only have a Xbox One S for Blu-ray. It's looking like the Sony UBP-X800 does all the same as the Xbox plus SACD and DVD-A. So, I might get it and sell my Xbox.

I realize the Xbox might have better support for updates, but there are some things I don't like about it - navigating with a controller, some bugs/glitches, etc.
Smart move on considering the Sony. The Oppo is a much better constructed machine, but the Sony is much cheaper and in my opinion perform better. For instance on SACD, the Oppo will change multi-channel DSD to PCM 88.2 whereas the Sony will play muli-channel DSD at PCM 176.4.
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post #7 of 14 Old 08-20-2017, 01:53 AM
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You will not notice a difference between 176 and 88 kHz. Oppo chose 88 kHz in testing as the best sound quality format to output. The sony I'm sure is a fine player, but I'll wager the Oppo will long outlast the Sony and it's staff will provide infinitely better customer service.
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post #8 of 14 Old 08-20-2017, 02:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glangford View Post
The sony I'm sure is a fine player, but I'll wager the Oppo will long outlast the Sony and it's staff will provide infinitely better customer service.
I support this point of view. Read posts 11895 to 11898 on this forum page:

Official OPPO BDP-95 Owner's Thread
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post #9 of 14 Old 08-21-2017, 10:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glangford View Post
You will not notice a difference between 176 and 88 kHz. Oppo chose 88 kHz in testing as the best sound quality format to output. The sony I'm sure is a fine player, but I'll wager the Oppo will long outlast the Sony and it's staff will provide infinitely better customer service.
Whether or not one can hear a difference would depend on the resolving power of the rest of one's system. As far as longevity, I am certain the Oppo offers better construction. But, I have never had a failure from Sony's "cheap" players. In fact, I can buy three or four Sonys for one Oppo.
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post #10 of 14 Old 08-22-2017, 02:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gbaby View Post
Whether or not one can hear a difference would depend on the resolving power of the rest of one's system. As far as longevity, I am certain the Oppo offers better construction. But, I have never had a failure from Sony's "cheap" players. In fact, I can buy three or four Sonys for one Oppo.
The UHD player he wants is 249, so he could buy a couple of players for the cost of the oppo. He won't be able to get an email response from tech support the same day, and sometimes even on weekends, to answer questions. He won't get a 2 year warranty or a 30 day no questions asked return. After warranty, if it does break he won't get a standard flat rate repair that is usually turned around in a day or two. He won't get continuing firmware updates for the player, even if another player has been released, whereas sony will drop support for that player in a year.

I've bought cheap BD players as well. I have a 90 dollar Samsung in the bedroom. Works ok, but I don't use it very often. I'll have it for a while I suspect. I doubt I'll have it as long as my current 6 year old Oppo-95, which I'm sure I'll have another 6 years.
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post #11 of 14 Old 08-22-2017, 06:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glangford View Post
The UHD player he wants is 249, so he could buy a couple of players for the cost of the oppo. He won't be able to get an email response from tech support the same day, and sometimes even on weekends, to answer questions. He won't get a 2 year warranty or a 30 day no questions asked return. After warranty, if it does break he won't get a standard flat rate repair that is usually turned around in a day or two. He won't get continuing firmware updates for the player, even if another player has been released, whereas sony will drop support for that player in a year.

I've bought cheap BD players as well. I have a 90 dollar Samsung in the bedroom. Works ok, but I don't use it very often. I'll have it for a while I suspect. I doubt I'll have it as long as my current 6 year old Oppo-95, which I'm sure I'll have another 6 years.
Sony ES players carry a 5 years warranty. Regardless, I had a $1,500.00 blu-ray player that is currently obsolete, but I still use it. I guess I no longer see the need to pay a lot of money for a "high end" blu-ray player. Simply does not make economic sense.
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post #12 of 14 Old 08-22-2017, 01:53 PM
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Originally Posted by gbaby View Post
Sony ES players carry a 5 years warranty. Regardless, I had a $1,500.00 blu-ray player that is currently obsolete, but I still use it. I guess I no longer see the need to pay a lot of money for a "high end" blu-ray player. Simply does not make economic sense.
The player he wants is not an ES player, it carries a 1 year warranty.
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post #13 of 14 Old 08-23-2017, 01:17 AM
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FYI: OPPO is the ONLY ULTRA Player which continues to have ANALOG 5.1/7.1 RCA Jacks which output ALL of the Audio Formats incl. SACD, DVD-A, Hi-Rez (incl. all Loss-Less), etc. to a suitably equipped AVR. My Oppo Blu-Ray Player also has this feature, which has saved me THOUSANDS of dollars trying to keep up with the various HDMI version releases. My 12-yo [Pre-HDMI] High-End Pioneer AVR [150 w/ch into 6-ohms] has been and will continue to be IMMUNE to the fol. list of HDMI upgrades [UDTV Switching Center has 4 HDMI, 2 C-V and 1 Video Inputs]. Whereas anyone trying to pass the new, higher data rate formats THRU their AVR [and Video Switch] are gonna have to dig deep (yet again) for an AVR Upgrade....and if your UDTV doesn't HAVE enough HDMI Inputs, check out the various AUTOMATIC HDMI Input Switches. Details re HDMI:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HDMI
http://www.hdmi.org/manufacturer/hdmi_2_1

HDMI 1.1 was released on May 20, 2004 [Still 4.95 Gbps, DVD-Audio: PCM Stereo up to 192 ksps, 5.1 Channels up to 96 ksps]
HDMI 1.2 was released on Aug 8, 2005 [Native DSD for SACD, Add'l Video Formats for PCs]
HDMI 1.2a was released on Dec 14, 2005 [Added CEC]

HDMI 1.3 was released on Jun 22, 2006 [10.2 Gbps, Deep Color, 1920×1080 at 120 Hz or 2560×1440 at 60 Hz]
HDMI 1.3a was released on Nov 10, 2006 [Alternative DST Format for SACD, various minor changes]
HDMI 1.4 was released on May 28, 2009 [ARC, Ethernet Channel, 3D,
4096×2160 at 24 Hz, 3840×2160 (Ultra HD) at 24 Hz/25 Hz/30 Hz, and 1080p at 120 Hz]
HDMI 1.4a was released on Mar 4, 2010 [Add'l 3D Formats for SAT Broadcast]
HDMI 1.4b was released on Oct 11, 2011 [Minor changes]

HDMI 2.0 was released on Sep 4, 2013 [18.3 Gbps, video at 60 Hz with 24 bit/px color depth, up to 1536 kHz audio sample rate and other Audio Enhancements]
HDMI 2.0b was released Mar 2016 [Static HDR10 per CTA-861.3 Spec]
HDMI 2.0b (update) was released Dec 2016 [Static HDR10 per CTA-861-G]

HDMI 2.1 [available "soonish"] was announced on Jan 4, 2017 [48Gbps, eARC (Enhanced ARC), 4K/8K/10K at 120 Hz, Dynamic HDR, Game Mode VRR]

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post #14 of 14 Old 08-23-2017, 07:19 PM
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Just to add to the discussion:

I recently purchased what I thought was going to be the do-everything streaming device, including playing ISO files, which my Oppo 95 doesn't do. (It does do a very good job with .TS video files, but no menu choices).

The gadget I purchased was the Nvidia Shield TV (2017 16GB version.) Great for Netflix, great for streaming 2-channel hi-res music in flac format from a Hard Drive plugged into my router. And it does play my DVD concert rips to ISO with full menu control.

Not so great at playing multi-channel hi-res files. Down-samples 96K surround flac to either 48K surround, or even 48k stereo and actually sounds as if it is losing the content of the surround channels, not mixing it back into the Front Left and Front Right channels.

So back to my good old reliable Oppo 95 for virtually ANY kind of music playback (from a Hard Drive plugged into my router, or from a Hard Drive plugged directly into the Oppo), and the new shield is almost primarily a Netflix box (I do not have a 4k TV) with a little bit of gaming.

I do not know how the new Oppo models, or newer other brand blu-ray players, compare as network music and video streamers, but the 95 is hard to beat. Especially with the Oppo android app, which allows me to choose music albums and tracks, and play them, without needing any other screen but my android phone or tablet to see what I am doing.
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