Poll: Sonic differences between low/mid/high end CD Players are... - Page 4 - AVS Forum
View Poll Results: The differences between low/mid/high CD Players are
real and significant 56 45.53%
real and minor 45 36.59%
non existent 7 5.69%
something that I'm looking into 15 12.20%
Voters: 123. You may not vote on this poll

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post #91 of 253 Old 03-01-2007, 01:02 PM
 
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I did manage to find the owner's manual from the QSC ABX Comparator.

Here is how to achieve calibration:

Quote:


In the calibration mode, the ABX Comparator will produce a 1 volt RMS, 1 kHz tone and send it to both channels
of both amplifiers in place of the audio signal input. At the same time, the digital voltmeter display will show
the output level from each amplifier channel, starting with Channel 1 of Amplifier A. In Calibration Mode,
however, the loudspeakers are muted, so you won't hear the test signal.
1. Turn off the audio sourcethe CD player, DAT, et aluntil you complete the calibration process.
2. Adjust the gain control of Channel 1 of Amplifier A until the voltmeter reads a reasonable voltage. The
ideal voltage will depend on the amps under test and the loudspeakers used for the listening test. For
example, a more efficient pair of speakers won't require as much gain or power as a less efficient pair
will. For most systems a good starting point would be 20.0 to 40.0 volts.
NOTE: For better accuracy and easier adjustability, set the amplifier gain controls toward
the upper range of settings.
3. Once you have the gain set for Amplifier A, Channel 1, take note of the voltmeter reading. You'll want
to match this voltage with the three other amplifier channels. Press ENTER.
4. Now the ABX prompts you to set the gain for Amplifier A, Channel 2. Adjust the channel's gain control
until you get the same voltmeter reading as with Channel 1, within 0.1 volt. Press ENTER.
5. Repeat step 3 for Amplifier B, Channel 1, and again for Amplifier B, Channel 2.
NOTE: If one of the amplifiers under test has no gain controls, you'll have to match the other
amp to that one.
After you complete calibrating all four channels, the ABX will automatically proceed to the trial mode, which
is the session of actual listening trials. (However, if you are unsatisfied with or unsure about the calibration, you
can press the CALIBRATE button on the front panel to go back and repeat the procedure.)

In order to achieve L/R balance, one would require 2 amps with separate gain controls, something most consumer amps lack.

Edit ... Does anyone know where one could purchase a good ABX comparator today ?

And did anyone ever test the QSC comparator to ascertain if it had an effect on the signal ?
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post #92 of 253 Old 03-01-2007, 01:18 PM
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It would not tax you inordinately to do some VOM measurements my friend.

"I've found that when you want to know the truth about someone that someone is probably the last person you should ask." - Gregory House
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post #93 of 253 Old 03-01-2007, 01:21 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chu Gai View Post

It would not tax you inordinately to do some VOM measurements my friend.

Pretty funny, coming from a guy who won't post a link ...

Chu, we have done VOM measurements. We found them to be no more accurate than my system of using TrueRTA. Edit: To elaborate on this, I have access to some pretty good test gear from my brother's place of business. They build some of the finest pro audio loudspeakers on the market, and his lead engineer and I are good friends.

He is also an audiophile, and has been a big help over the years in my tests. We have run some tests comparing results between the VOM (which they use along with some TEF SPL measuring equipment consistently) ... and the set up is quite accurate.
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post #94 of 253 Old 03-01-2007, 01:39 PM
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Here are two links:

http://www.stereophile.com/integrate...re/index3.html
http://www.stereophile.com/integrate...se/index5.html

Why then, in god's name, when I brought up the VOM measurements in other threads, did you rail against them?

"I've found that when you want to know the truth about someone that someone is probably the last person you should ask." - Gregory House
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post #95 of 253 Old 03-01-2007, 01:44 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chu Gai View Post

Here are two links:

http://www.stereophile.com/integrate...re/index3.html
http://www.stereophile.com/integrate...se/index5.html

Why then, in god's name, when I brought up the VOM measurements in other threads, did you rail against them?

Interesting ... I don't recall "railing against VOM measurements" in other threads. Perhaps you have me confused with someone else.

Doing a quick study of the links, it appears that the pre-amp portion of these integrated amps is the issue, as both are volume control dependent.

I have also never used either of these integrated amps. I am unsure why they are relevant to the discussion here.
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post #96 of 253 Old 03-01-2007, 01:57 PM
 
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Chu Gai - I have to go to a high school swim team dinner with my son, and won't be back until tonight. I was taken to task here for "dismissing physics". I posted my test equipment and a brief outline on methodology as an answer to that attack.

Please, let me know how many members on AVS have a more accurate overall way of setting up a system than what we have here. This is not picking a fight, I am genuinely interested.

Thanks ... and see you later.
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post #97 of 253 Old 03-01-2007, 02:41 PM
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You've been very forthcoming craig and I do believe I even complimented you on it. While your and I may have different objectives, I find little to criticize in your approach which involves a blind approach in attempting to subjectively determine an amp's suitability for your personal intended use. If anything, I think you understand that the inherent biases far better than most and aren't particularly swayed by marketing-speak.

I skimmed through the old 'Pro Amp vs Hi End Amp Blind Test' thread that's now locked. I simply didn't see anywhere where you posted that you'd compared the meter readings to the microphone you use.

Have fun at the dinner. I'm going to stop off at the gentlemen's club and act like a gentleman.
Whether it's solely the preamp portion that's the culprit or the amp or some combination of both, I don't know. Hence, I check and don't assume.

"I've found that when you want to know the truth about someone that someone is probably the last person you should ask." - Gregory House
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post #98 of 253 Old 03-01-2007, 03:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CharlesJ View Post

When the dictionary has about a million words in it, there are bound to be a few adjectives, right?

Nice try.
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post #99 of 253 Old 03-01-2007, 06:10 PM
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Hello all,

I stumbled across this thread doing a key word search, as I have been researching precisely what appears to be the original topic, namely, CD player audio quality. I'm hoping you folks can give me some insights. And for the record, I've reviewed all the posts in this thread and I don't think this question has been addressed directly yet.

QUESTION: Is there any benefit to buying a high-quality (i.e. expensive) CD player if I'm only going to be using the digital outputs? I understand all the arguments that come into play when using the analog outputs, but assuming I'm sticking with the same DAC in my existing processor, is there anything to be gained here?

I ask this knowing that some will emphatically say yes. I'm hoping that anyone making that argument can refer me to some published material (a magazine article or white paper, etc.) as I am willing to be swayed.

For the record, I personally believe wires can and do make a difference in the analog realm, and if I had a million dollars burning a hole in my pocket I could probably justify spending a few thousand on speaker wire. But on the digital side, is it possible that one wire is better at discerning ones and zeros than another? And is is possible that one DVD/CD player is better at sending ones and zeros to my preamp than another?

Thanks for your ideas,
Brian
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post #100 of 253 Old 03-01-2007, 06:13 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chu Gai View Post

You've been very forthcoming craig and I do believe I even complimented you on it. While your and I may have different objectives, I find little to criticize in your approach which involves a blind approach in attempting to subjectively determine an amp's suitability for your personal intended use. If anything, I think you understand that the inherent biases far better than most and aren't particularly swayed by marketing-speak.

I skimmed through the old 'Pro Amp vs Hi End Amp Blind Test' thread that's now locked. I simply didn't see anywhere where you posted that you'd compared the meter readings to the microphone you use.

Have fun at the dinner. I'm going to stop off at the gentlemen's club and act like a gentleman.
Whether it's solely the preamp portion that's the culprit or the amp or some combination of both, I don't know. Hence, I check and don't assume.

Chu, the feelings are mutual. I have mentioned the VOM vs. Calibrated microphone in the past ... but in the context that both will yield satisfactory results. It is level matching with a Rad Shack meter that I find amusing.

You are always a gentleman, and sometimes funny, your posting the centerfolds as your dream remote control is a great example.

One of the rather darkly amusing items I have run across in this particular forum is one hardly ever sees the mention of blind testing speakers. The conventional wisdom is "We know speakers sound different, so there is no need"...

Biases don't stop because it is loudspeakers being tested. And you should see the fun that can be had when guys have to blind A/B speakers.

Now .... for the Gentleman's club ... tell Angel I said HI !
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post #101 of 253 Old 03-01-2007, 06:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by craigsub View Post

One of the rather darkly amusing items I have run across in this particular forum is one hardly ever sees the mention of blind testing speakers. The conventional wisdom is "We know speakers sound different, so there is no need"...

Biases don't stop because it is loudspeakers being tested. And you should see the fun that can be had when guys have to blind A/B speakers.


I may have mentioned this, or not. But, certainly Dr. Toole has published AES papers on this very subject and a need for this as well. Bias doesn't stop.

But, doing DBT on speakers is not possible in homes, unlike cables, amps or CD players. Speakers need swapping to exact same locations in a hurry, like 2 seconds, silently. It has to be behind acoustic transparent curtains. NRC Canada does this in their research. So does Harman International after Toole was part of that organization.

So, while the will is there, the way is not.
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post #102 of 253 Old 03-01-2007, 07:26 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CharlesJ View Post

I may have mentioned this, or not. But, certainly Dr. Toole has published AES papers on this very subject and a need for this as well. Bias doesn't stop.

But, doing DBT on speakers is not possible in homes, unlike cables, amps or CD players. Speakers need swapping to exact same locations in a hurry, like 2 seconds, silently. It has to be behind acoustic transparent curtains. NRC Canada does this in their research. So does Harman International after Toole was part of that organization.

So, while the will is there, the way is not.

Another interesting point. Yes, The NRC and Harman have the $$$$ to perform this test, but doing one in the home is still useful.

All one needs to do is place the speakers in an ABAB arrangement, and perform 1/2 the test.

Then you do it over in a BABA arrangement, and you have repeatable results, especially when the speakers are several feet from walls. A darkened room will work quite well.

Granted, it is not quite in the league that the NRC test is, but it is still light years ahead of any other home speaker trial.

By the way, how does the normal person handle a DBT of an amp and swap it in 2 seconds ?

The way is there, for those open minded enough to take it.
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post #103 of 253 Old 03-01-2007, 07:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by craigsub View Post

Another interesting point. Yes, The NRC and Harman have the $$$$ to perform this test, but doing one in the home is still useful.

All one needs to do is place the speakers in an ABAB arrangement, and perform 1/2 the test.

Then you do it over in a BABA arrangement, and you have repeatable results, especially when the speakers are several feet from walls. A darkened room will work quite well.

Granted, it is not quite in the league that the NRC test is, but it is still light years ahead of any other home speaker trial.

By the way, how does the normal person handle a DBT of an amp and swap it in 2 seconds ?

The way is there, for those open minded enough to take it.

Well, an ABX box can do it rather fast/instant.

No, your method for speakers will not do as well. . Toole has demonstrated this too, one can identify speakers by position in the room, hence, it is not blind as it gives them away which you are listening too and be consistent in your grading or whatnot. Good try but not a good system.
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post #104 of 253 Old 03-01-2007, 07:44 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CharlesJ View Post

Well, an ABX box can do it rather fast/instant.

No, your method for speakers will not do as well. . Toole has demonstrated this too, one can identify speakers by position in the room, hence, it is not blind as it gives them away which you are listening too and be consistent in your grading or whatnot. Good try but not a good system.

Great ... and where does someone find this ABX box ? I asked earlier, and got no answer. I have tried searches, and cannot find one. I have never seen one science guy here involved in a test in which amps were swapped out in 2 seconds.

I would love to see a link in which Toole states a DBT in loudspeakers in one's own home is worthless. Care to point out his exact words ?

I am astonished that the science guys here think that sighted speaker tests are preferable to level matched, blind speaker tests. So much for objectivity.
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post #105 of 253 Old 03-01-2007, 08:00 PM
 
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Here is an excerpt from Toole's tests ...

Over the course of more than 20 years, the validity of these measurements has been confirmed by double-blind listening tests conducted in a nearby NRC listening room that approximates the size and furnishings of a typical living room. The program was guided by Dr. Floyd Toole, a Canadian physicist and psycho-acoustician who received his PhD in England in stereo localization, and continued his experiments at the National Research Council beginning in the 1970s. In his search for an accurate speaker with which to conduct his experiments, he discovered wild inconsistencies in speaker design and measurement, and an absence of controlled scientific research.
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post #106 of 253 Old 03-02-2007, 12:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by craigsub View Post

Great ... and where does someone find this ABX box ? I asked earlier, and got no answer. I have tried searches, and cannot find one. I have never seen one science guy here involved in a test in which amps were swapped out in 2 seconds.

I would love to see a link in which Toole states a DBT in loudspeakers in one's own home is worthless. Care to point out his exact words ?

I am astonished that the science guys here think that sighted speaker tests are preferable to level matched, blind speaker tests. So much for objectivity.


Toole didn't say anything about homes blind testing, period. Why would he? His research concluded the ability to identify speakers by location. In another word, when in a different location, even by a distance of another speaker, that can be identified, hence his development of that in place shuttle that swaps it in 2 seconds. I am sure the 2 seconds is the quickest the equipment turntable can turn without flying the speakers off the table. It certainly would be better if it was less. Acoustic memory is very short for small differences, contrary to popular belief.

So, since you cannot do that in homes, and your idea is to place them side by side, it is obvious that even in a dark room, you will be consistently able to assign characteristics to speakers by location, hence it has no real merit.

I bet the others here say that about sighted testing is that you just cannot do speaker tests properly in the home.

Not sure where you will find that ABX box. I have seen references to them for the new generation of boxes, not the original ones.

You should find your answers in these:

Toole, F. E. ' Listening Tests, Turning Opinions into Facts,' Journal of the Audio Engineering Society, Vol 30, No.6, Jun 1982, pg 431-445.

Toole, F. E. 'Subjective Measurements of Loudspeaker Sound Quality and Listening Preference,' Journal of the Audio Engineering Society, Vol 33, No 1/2, Jan/Feb 1985, pg 2-32.

Toole, F. E. Loudspeaker Measurements and Their Relationship to Listening Preferences,' Part 1, Journal of the Audio Engineering Society, Vol 34, No.4, Apr 1986, pg 227-235; Part two, JAES Vol 34, No.5, May 1986, pg 323-348.

Toole, F. E. 'Listening Tests-Identifying and Controlling the Variables,' Proceedings of the 8th International Conference, AES, May 1990.

Toole, F. E. and Olive, S. E. ' Hearing is Believing vs Believing is Hearing: Blind vs Sighted Listening Tests and Other Interesting Things,' 97th AES Convention, Nov 1994, Print #3894.
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post #107 of 253 Old 03-02-2007, 06:23 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CharlesJ View Post

Toole didn't say anything about homes blind testing, period. Why would he? His research concluded the ability to identify speakers by location. In another word, when in a different location, even by a distance of another speaker, that can be identified, hence his development of that in place shuttle that swaps it in 2 seconds. I am sure the 2 seconds is the quickest the equipment turntable can turn without flying the speakers off the table. It certainly would be better if it was less. Acoustic memory is very short for small differences, contrary to popular belief.

So, since you cannot do that in homes, and your idea is to place them side by side, it is obvious that even in a dark room, you will be consistently able to assign characteristics to speakers by location, hence it has no real merit.

I bet the others here say that about sighted testing is that you just cannot do speaker tests properly in the home.

Not sure where you will find that ABX box. I have seen references to them for the new generation of boxes, not the original ones.

You should find your answers in these:

Toole, F. E. ' Listening Tests, Turning Opinions into Facts,' Journal of the Audio Engineering Society, Vol 30, No.6, Jun 1982, pg 431-445.

Toole, F. E. 'Subjective Measurements of Loudspeaker Sound Quality and Listening Preference,' Journal of the Audio Engineering Society, Vol 33, No 1/2, Jan/Feb 1985, pg 2-32.

Toole, F. E. Loudspeaker Measurements and Their Relationship to Listening Preferences,' Part 1, Journal of the Audio Engineering Society, Vol 34, No.4, Apr 1986, pg 227-235; Part two, JAES Vol 34, No.5, May 1986, pg 323-348.

Toole, F. E. 'Listening Tests-Identifying and Controlling the Variables,' Proceedings of the 8th International Conference, AES, May 1990.

Toole, F. E. and Olive, S. E. ' Hearing is Believing vs Believing is Hearing: Blind vs Sighted Listening Tests and Other Interesting Things,' 97th AES Convention, Nov 1994, Print #3894.

Toole most certainly did say quite a bit about in home speaker testing, he even was a proponent of making listening rooms which were similar to the typical home environment for just that purpose. I posted a quote from his research above.

If you want to read some excellent info which is actually available on line, read Axiom Audio's work with both the NRC and Toole about blind listening tests. I have had extensive conversations with Ian Colqhoun from Axiom, and he has been involved with the NRC since its inception. It was Axiom that built the speaker switcher for me. Ian would agree that we have the best in home speaker trial system and method he has knowledge of. This includes a treated room with complete lighting control. The room is 25 x 21, and is quite neutral.

I do believe we are discussing 2 different things here, though. I am referring to blind speaker tests in one's home to determine a purchase.

That IS the purpose of this forum, to help educate people towards making a better purchase decision. It is a SUPPORT forum.

And, back to amplifiers, CD players, speaker wires, etc ... I have YET to see one properly done ABX test from any of the "science guys" here.

Do you guys actually do any testing for yourselves ? Or do you merely post what you think Nousaine and Toole said ? From what I have read ... there is only textbook quoting here, no actual science done.

I am genuinely interested in finding a good ABX box. If anyone can assist, that would be appreciated. This does mean I will BUY the box.

Finally, Charles, you mentioned that I am into voo doo. Can you elaborate ? What voo doo specifically have I bought into ? I am asking for a reason ... Chu Gai asked me why I had railed against using a VOM meter. As it turned out, I had not ever railed against it.

Others have said I buy into the mega-buck amp "voo-doo", yet my most expensive amp cost me $200 per channel for a 7 x 200 watt amp. My average cost per channel in 3 full size theaters is $152.

Unlike most here, I have actually tried the big $$$$ stuff against my moderately priced gear, and I could hear no difference.

So ... I really am curious ... do you REALLY think I am into voo doo ?

Or does it just aggravate you that I respect and like the position that the totally subjective guy takes when he proclaims his new (insert component here) is making his system WORLDS better ?
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post #108 of 253 Old 03-02-2007, 06:38 AM
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Craigsub,

Tom Nousaine has performed his ABX tests with the QSC comparator. Unfortunately it seems this product is no longer available from QSC.

Although Rod Elliot has suggested an ABX tester design here: http://sound.westhost.com/abx-tester.htm.

This link has good info about another ABX tester: http://www.bostonaudiosociety.org/ba...x_testing2.htm.

It is an article from the BAS Speaker Aug.-Sept. 1984. Please pay attention to references 6 and 7:

[6] S. P. Lipshitz and J. Vanderkooy, "The Great Debate: Subjective Evaluation", J. Audio Eng. Soc., Vol. 29, pp. 482-491 (1981 July/Aug.).
[7] D. Clark, "High-Resolution Subjective Testing Using a Double-Blind Comparator", J. Audio Eng. Soc., Vol. 30, pp. 330-338 (1982 May).
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post #109 of 253 Old 03-02-2007, 06:46 AM
 
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Jorge ... Thanks, I have found the links you posted, and several others. It seems that no one makes an ABX box which is available to buy today. Apparently, there just is not much of a market.
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post #110 of 253 Old 03-02-2007, 10:13 AM
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Maybe if the price dropped?

"I've found that when you want to know the truth about someone that someone is probably the last person you should ask." - Gregory House
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post #111 of 253 Old 03-02-2007, 10:22 AM
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QUESTION: Is there any benefit to buying a high-quality (i.e. expensive) CD player if I'm only going to be using the digital outputs? I understand all the arguments that come into play when using the analog outputs, but assuming I'm sticking with the same DAC in my existing processor, is there anything to be gained here?

This depends upon your DAC. If its buffer is small and it intimately depends upon the data coming from the transport in order to derive its clock, then maybe yes. But it's not a question of a high end transport in this case. It's more a case of how stable and precise the player is. So, call the DAC vendor and find out some info from whomever you plan on buying the player from. Might take some effort.

Craig, rail was far too strong of a word on my part. Got carried away. I was skimming that referenced thread and kept noticing that you strongly championed your particular use and implementation of the microphone and software but nowhere did I read where you'd done correlations between that approach and using VOM's. That suggested to me that you'd never used a VOM. I'd have been most interested in reading about your correlations.

Angel says hi back to you and said she expected far more than the measly dollar you gave when you determined that she was quite adept with a razor.

"I've found that when you want to know the truth about someone that someone is probably the last person you should ask." - Gregory House
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Angel says hi back to you and said she expected far more than the measly dollar you gave when you determined that she was quite adept with a razor.

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post #113 of 253 Old 03-02-2007, 10:55 AM
 
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Angel says hi back to you and said she expected far more than the measly dollar you gave when you determined that she was quite adept with a razor.

What Angel did not realize is the dollar was actually this, which is worth $500.

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post #114 of 253 Old 03-02-2007, 11:36 AM
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No, you gave her four of these.


"I've found that when you want to know the truth about someone that someone is probably the last person you should ask." - Gregory House
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post #115 of 253 Old 03-02-2007, 12:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Chu Gai View Post

This depends upon your DAC. If its buffer is small and it intimately depends upon the data coming from the transport in order to derive its clock, then maybe yes. But it's not a question of a high end transport in this case. It's more a case of how stable and precise the player is. So, call the DAC vendor and find out some info from whomever you plan on buying the player from. Might take some effort.

Thanks Chu. So if I followed what you said, a good DAC has a large buffer that can correct for timing innacuracies in a mediocre transport. i.e., a good DAC may superceed the need for an upgraded CD player. My processor is a Harmon Kardon Signature 2.0 circa 2003. It originally retailed for $2,500, so I imagine they wouldn't have skimped too much on the DAC. And for what it's worth, the DVD player in question is a Bravo D1.

FYI - My home theater has been reborn after the recent addition of a new subwoofer (thanks, in part, to some excellent research and analysis by craigsub) so I'm looking for ways to make some more incremental, cost-effective improvements.
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post #116 of 253 Old 03-02-2007, 01:14 PM
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Thanks Chu. So if I followed what you said, a good DAC has a large buffer that can correct for timing innacuracies in a mediocre transport. i.e., a good DAC may superceed the need for an upgraded CD player. My processor is a Harmon Kardon Signature 2.0 circa 2003. It originally retailed for $2,500, so I imagine they wouldn't have skimped too much on the DAC. And for what it's worth, the DVD player in question is a Bravo D1.

FYI - My home theater has been reborn after the recent addition of a new subwoofer (thanks, in part, to some excellent research and analysis by craigsub) so I'm looking for ways to make some more incremental, cost-effective improvements.

Well, that' kinda it, but you of course can solicit other opinions on this. A one box solution in an of itself is a pretty sensible approach. The DAC acts as a traffic cop and controls the amount of information going to its buffer - rejecting information if it's not needed, controlling the speed of the disc and so forth. If you've ever burned any CD's then you've probably made more than your share of coasters because you were burning too fast, or running some background program and found that your buffer suddenly was empty. Once you sever that intimacy, depending upon the external DAC you might find problems. After all, you've eliminated the whole feedback and talking thing. Fortunately, this does not seem to be a widespread problem and seems more limited to the fringe DAC crowd.

I'm sure craigsub was very helpful. He works pretty hard just for the love of the hobby.

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post #117 of 253 Old 03-02-2007, 03:53 PM
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Toole most certainly did say quite a bit about in home speaker testing, he even was a proponent of making listening rooms which were similar to the typical home environment for just that purpose. I posted a quote from his research above.

If you want to read some excellent info which is actually available on line, read Axiom Audio's work with both the NRC and Toole about blind listening tests. I have had extensive conversations with Ian Colqhoun from Axiom, and he has been involved with the NRC since its inception. It was Axiom that built the speaker switcher for me. Ian would agree that we have the best in home speaker trial system and method he has knowledge of. This includes a treated room with complete lighting control. The room is 25 x 21, and is quite neutral.

I do believe we are discussing 2 different things here, though. I am referring to blind speaker tests in one's home to determine a purchase.

That IS the purpose of this forum, to help educate people towards making a better purchase decision. It is a SUPPORT forum.

And, back to amplifiers, CD players, speaker wires, etc ... I have YET to see one properly done ABX test from any of the "science guys" here.

Do you guys actually do any testing for yourselves ? Or do you merely post what you think Nousaine and Toole said ? From what I have read ... there is only textbook quoting here, no actual science done.

I am genuinely interested in finding a good ABX box. If anyone can assist, that would be appreciated. This does mean I will BUY the box.

Finally, Charles, you mentioned that I am into voo doo. Can you elaborate ? What voo doo specifically have I bought into ? I am asking for a reason ... Chu Gai asked me why I had railed against using a VOM meter. As it turned out, I had not ever railed against it.

Others have said I buy into the mega-buck amp "voo-doo", yet my most expensive amp cost me $200 per channel for a 7 x 200 watt amp. My average cost per channel in 3 full size theaters is $152.

Unlike most here, I have actually tried the big $$$$ stuff against my moderately priced gear, and I could hear no difference.

So ... I really am curious ... do you REALLY think I am into voo doo ?

Or does it just aggravate you that I respect and like the position that the totally subjective guy takes when he proclaims his new (insert component here) is making his system WORLDS better ?

Aggravate me? You? Hardly. Inconsequential in the scheme of things.

Why would I bother with DBTs? Or, one equal to what may be accepted in a Journal. I am not publishing, are you? And, I would pick my components for other reasons, not sound, except for speakers. Waste of my time. No evidence I should worry. Plenty of evidence not to worry.
Have you seen a proper sighted comparison? Ever comment about testable claims based on such testing? If so, good for you. If not, why not?

As for you seeing DBT/ABX to your satisfaction, so what. No one said you have to accept anything by others. Obviously that is why you attempt to do your own.

Yes, I am familiar with the Axiom website and their story about the NRC. And?

Maybe/most likely I have confused you with another about voodoo audio stuff
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post #118 of 253 Old 03-02-2007, 07:26 PM
 
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No, you gave her four of these.


That was funny enough for an encore.
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post #119 of 253 Old 03-03-2007, 01:06 PM
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Interesting, if not completely scientific, shootout of CD players.
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post #120 of 253 Old 03-03-2007, 06:54 PM
 
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Interesting, if not completely scientific, shootout of CD players.

The tests were done blind, with different results for each pairing. It is pretty clear in a couple of the tests that there was quite an audible difference, as 90% heard it, and voiced a preference, too. It seems a solid body of evidence of the audible differences.

Had the results been "no difference", something tells me there would be a lot of "I told you so" activity here from the usual suspects.
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