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post #121 of 147 Old 01-23-2008, 12:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Chu Gai View Post

Yeah, but then why does Brady have to come to NYC for his booty call?! Huh?

Well, there's some things you just can't argue about...

I love the way you're johnny on the spot with those pics. But I can't figure out if you're just that quick on the google images search, or if you have a well cataloged collection socked away on your computer...


Scott
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post #122 of 147 Old 01-23-2008, 01:45 PM
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I'm actually a Philadelphia explant...

Me too. Actually, West Chester, PA. But I gave up on the Eagles around 1966 after too much pain.
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post #123 of 147 Old 01-23-2008, 02:10 PM
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Actually Chu has a great point. Pats 2-7 ATS in their last 9....14 is alot in the NFL.

Its all about getting a 50-50 spread on the money and the book takes the vig.

The unknown variable is how NY fans will SOUND if Eli takes a s hit in the big game. I am impressed with the NY run game.

Pats have alot of players that have been there. Can u say under?
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post #124 of 147 Old 01-23-2008, 02:30 PM
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I presume you scored something over 16/20 on an ABX test, using the best quality mp3 encoding available (e.g., one of the more recent LAME releases) at a high variable or constant bitrate?

I experimented with both Lame and Fraunhofer Encoders, at 128 to 256 kbps. Both constant and variable rate. This was about 5 years ago, so I am not sure what you consider "recent". Of course some people were claiming that MP3 sounded great then also.
All I know is that I could clearly hear the differences.

Don't get me wrong, I will accept lower quality and it still sounds "pretty good". But we shouldn't fool ourselves that MP3 really competes with uncompressed.

Evolution: "Those who have the greatest faith in science are the ones who know least about it."Example: If the thermodynamic law of maximization of entropy (disorder) holds true, why do we live in a world that keeps selecting for higher levels of organization (order, intelligence) in life forms through evolution ?
Can "life" violate the laws that govern all othere thermodynamic systemms ?
Just something to ponder.
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post #125 of 147 Old 01-23-2008, 03:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Amber O'Doul View Post

"Those who have the greatest faith in science are the ones who know least about it."Example: If the thermodynamic law of maximization of entropy (disorder) holds true, why do we live in a world that keeps selecting for higher levels of organization (order, intelligence) in life forms through evolution ?
Can "life" violate the laws that govern all othere thermodynamic systemms ?
Just something to ponder.

How's that higher level of intelligence working out?

"I've found that when you want to know the truth about someone that someone is probably the last person you should ask." - Gregory House
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post #126 of 147 Old 01-23-2008, 03:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Amber O'Doul View Post

Evolution: "Those who have the greatest faith in science are the ones who know least about it."Example: If the thermodynamic law of maximization of entropy (disorder) holds true, why do we live in a world that keeps selecting for higher levels of organization (order, intelligence) in life forms through evolution ?
Can "life" violate the laws that govern all othere thermodynamic systemms ?
Just something to ponder.

those who would make a statement like the above really don't understand the entropy law, which is in regard to "systems", not individuals within those systems... keep in mind that while the overall entropy of any given system will always increase, there are portions of that system that will tend towards order, thus appearing to be violating entropic law...

boy, talk about getting off on a tangent...

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post #127 of 147 Old 01-23-2008, 06:59 PM
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those who would make a statement like the above really don't understand the entropy law, ....

I'll inform my thesis committee.
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...which is in regard to "systems", not individuals within those systems...

Indeed.
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keep in mind that while the overall entropy of any given system will always increase, there are portions of that system that will tend towards order, thus appearing to be violating entropic law...

How did it come about that our entire planet is filled with evolving (towards more order) creatures ?
I don't want to create a crack in your faith in science, but you could read some things like "Non-Equilibrium Thermodynamics" by Nobel Prize laureate Ilya Prigogine. Classical thermodynamics (and the phenomena you cite) are really the "thermodynamics of close-to-equilibrium systems". Systems far from equilibrium (e. g. nearly everywhere in the real universe) exhibit self-organizational behavior that most leading-edge thermodynamicists admit they don't fully understand.

And that is why MP3 sucks ! You guys are quite funny here !
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post #128 of 147 Old 01-23-2008, 07:12 PM
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Me too. Actually, West Chester, PA. But I gave up on the Eagles around 1966 after too much pain.

Smitty,

In 1995 I spend one week at West Chester to pay a visit to the facilities of Weston Environmental Services. Very nice place indeed!

Now back to the topic.
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post #129 of 147 Old 01-23-2008, 11:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Amber O'Doul View Post

I experimented with both Lame and Fraunhofer Encoders, at 128 to 256 kbps. Both constant and variable rate. This was about 5 years ago, so I am not sure what you consider "recent".

Rather less than 5 years ago. LAME has come a long way since then.


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Of course some people were claiming that MP3 sounded great then also.
All I know is that I could clearly hear the differences.

Don't get me wrong, I will accept lower quality and it still sounds "pretty good". But we shouldn't fool ourselves that MP3 really competes with uncompressed.

Yes, we should, because it does, nowadays.

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Evolution: "Those who have the greatest faith in science are the ones who know least about it."Example: If the thermodynamic law of maximization of entropy (disorder) holds true, why do we live in a world that keeps selecting for higher levels of organization (order, intelligence) in life forms through evolution ?
Can "life" violate the laws that govern all othere thermodynamic systemms ?
Just something to ponder.

Only if you have no clue about either the Laws of Thermodynamics, or evolution.

Ponder:

Our part of the system gets constant injections of energy from that big fusion reactor in the sky. And thus entropy is NOT maximized
locally...it is prevented from reaching maximum. There is no conflict between life and entropy laws; such musings date from a time when the discovery of DNA was new.

If 'the world' inexorably keeps selecting for 'higher intelligence', why are there still sponges?

The 'tree of life' is not a pyramid; it's not even a tree. Human intelligence is just the end of of one of many branches.
Most of them do not end in 'higher intelligence'. Yet they represent the action of evolution just as much as our branch does.
Is it perhaps simply species bias that makes us think 'the world' selected for us in particular? Pondered more objectively, the world seems much more 'interested' in developing different kinds of insects and bacteria.
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post #130 of 147 Old 01-24-2008, 12:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Amber O'Doul View Post

I'll inform my thesis committee.

Indeed.
How did it come about that our entire planet is filled with evolving (towards more order) creatures ?

it isn't.


Quote:


I don't want to create a crack in your faith in science, but you could read some things like "Non-Equilibrium Thermodynamics" by Nobel Prize laureate Ilya Prigogine. Classical thermodynamics (and the phenomena you cite) are really the "thermodynamics of close-to-equilibrium systems". Systems far from equilibrium (e. g. nearly everywhere in the real universe) exhibit self-organizational behavior that most leading-edge thermodynamicists admit they don't fully understand.

I don't want to crack your faith in Prigogine, but you could read this

http://www.cscs.umich.edu/~crshalizi...prigogine.html

it even has a scathing reponse to crackpot anti-evolution ideas that some have based on Prigogine's work. I hope this doesn't hit too close to home
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post #131 of 147 Old 01-24-2008, 08:14 AM
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It was good of you to google Prigogine and begin to learn something about thermodynamics beyond the "Physics 101" versions you have been spouting.

I enjoy anything on the subject, so I read the article. But oddly, I didn't really find it "scathing" or that it referred to any of his own ideas as "crackpot". In fact I searched for that word and came up empty.

In fact, it seemed like a balanced, if skeptical, review:
" I should enumerate Prigogine's intellectual benefactions. First, he really did do excellent work on non-equilibrium thermodynamics in the early days; his Thermodynamics of Irreversible Processes is a model of lucidity, and while inevitably dated (the last revision was in 1967), suffers for the most part from the omission of new results, not the comission of definite errors. Second, he tried to push forward a rigorous and well-grounded study of pattern formation and self-organization almost before anyone else. He failed, but the attempt was inspiring. Third, and related to the previous item, his example encouraged many people to take up the same problems, and do better than he had."

If you had read carefully, you might have noticed that the reference to and criticism of "anti-evolutionary ideas" was directed at a critic of Prigogine's,....not AT Prigiogine himself:
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Note, 17 April 2003: I've just discovered a Turkish creationist (and anti-Masonic conspiracy theorist) has linked to this page, and mined my quotations here, to try to make it sound like self-organization is a "myth", and evolution is thermodynamically impossible. For the record, this is repugnant and I have nothing to do with it. His arguments about evolution and thermodynamics are century-old fallacies.

Careful reading is necessary in the study of advanced scientific theories like non-equilibrium thermodynamics. At least you are on a start !
Keep studying !

Also, don't assume that because I understand the numerous flaws and omissions of "evolution" as it is understood in pop culture, that I am a "creationist"....I am not. I believe in natural selection.
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post #132 of 147 Old 01-24-2008, 08:37 AM
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I believe in natural selection.

and.....?
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post #133 of 147 Old 01-24-2008, 08:41 AM
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BTW, after we die, we kind of go all random again, don't you think Amber?

"I've found that when you want to know the truth about someone that someone is probably the last person you should ask." - Gregory House
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post #134 of 147 Old 01-24-2008, 08:45 AM
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BTW, after we die, we kind of go all random again, don't you think Amber?

I must be dead already.
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post #135 of 147 Old 01-24-2008, 08:54 AM
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ID will happen when Google develops the means to link to our brains.

"I've found that when you want to know the truth about someone that someone is probably the last person you should ask." - Gregory House
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post #136 of 147 Old 01-24-2008, 09:06 AM
 
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ID will happen when Google develops the means to link to our brains.

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post #137 of 147 Old 01-24-2008, 10:12 AM
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Clearly, I'll have to get a better teacher than you, you pretentious knob

I'll let you have the last word.
I am just so happy to leave this forum having learned that I can save a lot of money because all CD players sound the same and are PERFECT. And MP3 sounds indistinuishably great as well.

I am off to correct all my misunderstandings of thermodyamic theory and tell anyone who doesn't accept "evolution" that they are an idiot.

Thanks for straightening me out. It seems like all these definitive conclusions are so simple that you could just pulblish a "sticky" FAQ on them though.

One suggestion: Consider how little information is really conveyed by the phrase: "No sh*t?"
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post #138 of 147 Old 01-24-2008, 10:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Amber O'Doul View Post

I'll let you have the last word.
I am just so happy to leave this forum having learned that I can save a lot of money because all CD players sound the same and are PERFECT. And MP3 sounds indistinuishably great as well.

I am off to correct all my misunderstandings of thermodyamic theory and tell anyone who doesn't accept "evolution" that they are an idiot.

Thanks for straightening me out. It seems like all these definitive conclusions are so simple that you could just pulblish a "sticky" FAQ on them though.

One suggestion: Consider how little information is really conveyed by the phrase: "No sh*t?"

LOL.
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post #139 of 147 Old 01-24-2008, 10:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Amber O'Doul View Post

I'll let you have the last word.
I am just so happy to leave this forum having learned that I can save a lot of money because all CD players sound the same and are PERFECT.

And MP3 sounds indistinuishably great as well.

Then you're as bad a 'learner' as you are a teacher, troll.

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One suggestion: Consider how little information is really conveyed by the phrase: "No sh*t?"


But you know, I bet everyone else reading along knew *exactly* what I was getting at.
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post #140 of 147 Old 01-24-2008, 10:52 AM
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thanks krab... i'm glad i'm not the only one who didn't fall for "mr. irrelevant's" attempt to twist science...

- chris

 

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post #141 of 147 Old 01-24-2008, 12:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Amber O'Doul View Post

Evolution: "Those who have the greatest faith in science are the ones who know least about it."Example: If the thermodynamic law of maximization of entropy (disorder) holds true, why do we live in a world that keeps selecting for higher levels of organization (order, intelligence) in life forms through evolution ?
Can "life" violate the laws that govern all othere thermodynamic systemms ?
Just something to ponder.

This is just too ridiculous not to comment on, especially from someone posing as a graduate student in a physical science. Organisms are supremely effective entropy-increasing machines. From the broadest perspective, all life does is find ways to convert electromagnetic (sunlight) and chemical (food) energy into low-grade heat, and in the process make ever more little entropy machines. (Adaptive) evolution selects for those organisms that outcompete their rivals in terms of such command of resources and successful reproduction. Only someone profoundly ignorant of thermodynamics (or with an agenda) would look at the evolution of life and claim that it is in any way inconsistent with the second law. That is anti-scientific garbage.

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I am off to correct all my misunderstandings of thermodyamic theory and tell anyone who doesn't accept "evolution" that they are an idiot.

Please do the first, but not the second. Most people who don't accept evolution aren't idiots, but rather have either had insufficient science education, have been lied to by pseudoscientists and zealots, or wish it weren't true becuase of the perceived theological implications.

Now, it would leave a bitter taste to submit my first post without saying something on-topic, so here it goes: I haven't listened to a CD anywhere other than my car for ages. Even in my main system, I listen almost exclusively to EAC-ripped, high-bitrate MP3s (exception: concert DVDs) played through a game console, of all things. For me, the very large difference in convenience outweighs the much smaller difference in fidelity. This may change as I upgrade my system, so I am starting to archive the ripped wav files too.
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post #142 of 147 Old 01-24-2008, 12:58 PM
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Originally Posted by DrSteel View Post

Now, it would leave a bitter taste to submit my first post without saying something on-topic, so here it goes: I haven't listened to a CD anywhere other than my car for ages. Even in my main system, I listen almost exclusively to EAC-ripped, high-bitrate MP3s (exception: concert DVDs) played through a game console, of all things. For me, the very large difference in convenience outweighs the much smaller difference in fidelity. This may change as I upgrade my system, so I am starting to archive the ripped wav files too.


Why not lossless compressed, as an excellent compromise (if your game console supports player software with lossless codecs)? I do the almost same as you, except 99.9% of the audio files are FLAC, stored on an external HD; playback is via foobar2000 running on any of my networked PCs/laptops.
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post #143 of 147 Old 01-24-2008, 01:04 PM
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Originally Posted by krabapple View Post

Why not lossless compressed, as an excellent compromise (if your game console supports player software with lossless codecs)? I do the almost same as you, except 99.9% of the audio files are FLAC, stored on an external HD; playback is via foobar2000 running on any of my networked PCs/laptops.

This is probably the way I will go (I am 99% certain that my software plays flacs and reads flac tags).
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post #144 of 147 Old 01-24-2008, 01:44 PM
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Originally Posted by DrSteel View Post

Most people who don't accept evolution aren't idiots, but rather have either had insufficient science education, have been lied to by pseudoscientists and zealots, or wish it weren't true becuase of the perceived theological implications.

One might also say that most people who accept evolution aren't idiots, but rather have either had insufficient science education, have been lied to by pseudoscientists and zealots, or wish it were true because of the perceived theological implications.

In any event, isn't this way issue off-topic, and aren't discussions of evolution vs. intelligent design, etc. in violation of the forum rules against discussion of political, religious and other controversial topics, or at least in violation of the spirit and intent of the rules? Don't such discussions invariably lead to name calling, as is evidenced by today's posts on this issue?
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post #145 of 147 Old 01-24-2008, 01:48 PM
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One might also say that most people who accept evolution aren't idiots, but rather have either had insufficient science education, have been lied to by pseudoscientists and zealots, or wish it were true because of the perceived theological implications.

One might say it, but not without humliating oneself in the process.
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post #146 of 147 Old 01-24-2008, 02:02 PM
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One might say it, but not without humliating oneself in the process.

That's a matter of perspective, isn't it? Or to put it another way, perhaps you will not be the final judge of who is humiliated.

In any event, the continuing discussion and arguments over who will be "humiliated" really supports my second point, I suppose.
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post #147 of 147 Old 01-24-2008, 02:30 PM
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final judge

Oh yes, THAT guy (male I think is how most imagine) again.
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