Any AM HD at night yet? - AVS Forum
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Old 04-01-2007, 07:38 AM - Thread Starter
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???

Also wondering since the Accurian gets good long range reception if there's any AM dxing possible for hd.....THAT would be interesting...
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Old 04-01-2007, 07:49 AM
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My understanding is that the FCC first must publish the IBOC rules and regulations in the Federal Register, and they will not take effect until 30 days after publication. As far as I know, the actual publication hasn't happened yet.
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Old 04-20-2007, 11:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bradpeters View Post

My understanding is that the FCC first must publish the IBOC rules and regulations in the Federal Register, and they will not take effect until 30 days after publication. As far as I know, the actual publication hasn't happened yet.

Are we any closer? Have the rules been published?
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Old 06-03-2007, 08:16 PM
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I have heard from a person from KMOX that they will start evening broadcasts starting approximately July 1st.

This from Joe Geerling, from KMOX...

"We will be going 24 hours in HD staring around July 1. The FCC is allowing AM stations to broadcast 24 hours if they can meet the HD spec. KMOX does."
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Old 07-13-2007, 09:52 PM
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I just got an HD radio and I am in the Minneapolis-Saint Paul MN market. Neither of the AM radio stations here seem to be broadcasting AM-HD at night yet.
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Old 07-15-2007, 02:18 AM
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The rule changes may still not have been published in the Federal Register. Keep watching here for an announcement; someone is likely to know for sure.

Chris

"It's [expletive] lame to watch Jaws, a film that uses the 2.40 ratio as well as any ever produced, in the wrong format on HBO." -Steven Soderbergh, Oscar-winning director

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Old 07-15-2007, 07:33 AM
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I think it's odd that the rules haven't made it in yet. While I'm no expert on the process, if you look at the docket numbers for rules/decisions that have made it to the Register, the revised IBOC rules are still to be published even though the docket number precedes some that have already been published.

I'm pretty sure the FCC decided the issue in March, publicized the decision at the end of May, and now, about 7 weeks later, the rules have yet to appear in the Register. Talk about bureaucracy! Hey FCC, there's this thing called email!
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Old 07-18-2007, 06:03 AM
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I wrote to a guy at the FCC who's name is mentioned in the FCC 07-33 pdf. I asked why the delay in getting FCC 07-33 into the Register, when docket items post FCC 07-33 were already in the Register. He responded using language made famous by Chief Justice Earl Warren in Brown v. Board of Education II:

"We are working on that with all deliberate speed."

So, take that ambiguity for what it's worth.
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Old 07-18-2007, 08:33 AM
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If I had an AM HD station, I'd be tempted to leave it on at night now. The fact that this is taking so damn long is the Fed's fault, not broadcasters.
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Old 07-18-2007, 10:12 AM
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One of our local HD AM stations has already done this accidentally a couple of times!

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Old 07-27-2007, 08:56 PM
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Radio Disney in the West Palm Beach, Florida area. (WMNE 1600 Riviera Beach.) Disclaimer: I don't have a HD receiver.
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Old 08-10-2007, 11:14 AM
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So, any new reports of "breakin' the law" with AM HD at night?
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Old 08-13-2007, 07:01 PM
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DX alert!!!

Keep the eye out for this station!!!

Tonight 1110 WBT Charlotte, NC will be on the air at 12:00am E.T.
(Tuesday 8/14/2007) testing our HD signal.

If you have a way to pass this along to your fellow DXer's to listen
anywhere in North America. We're curious to see if the analog signal
will still pick up as it skips through the night.

Please have those email me billwhite@wbt.com or our Chief Engineer
jdowd@lfm.com.


Good luck on Dxing this baby!!

I just don't have a HD radio yet, but still waiting on the Sony HD radio result report.

8-13-07

"73's N5XZS"
From Timothy C. Johnson
Live Long and Prosper...
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Old 08-15-2007, 08:44 AM
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THe HD rules were published in the Federal Register this morning. Effective date of 24/7 HD on AM is September 14, 2007.
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Old 08-15-2007, 09:00 AM
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Page 16 of 24 of the Federal Register entry re: AM Night Ops. Full PDF here:

http://a257.g.akamaitech.net/7/257/2...f/E7-15922.pdf
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Old 08-15-2007, 09:13 AM
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Cool. The first big signal AM from the "Tar Heel State" in HD should be WBT. Their program director told me (in an e-mail yesterday) they expect to be HD fulltime by the end of August.
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Old 08-15-2007, 09:14 AM
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Take THAT, Mexico!
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Old 08-15-2007, 09:17 AM
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"Take THAT, Mexico! "

That's funny, Narkspud. Thanks for the giggle! Mexico will probably be sending some back our way soon, however, as they're about to begin HD along the border, on the Mexican side of the border (sigh). Now all we need is HD from Cuba, sorry..."Cuber" as Ted Kennedy still calls it
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Old 08-15-2007, 09:22 AM
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¬°que Lastima!
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Old 08-15-2007, 01:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R.F. Burns View Post

THe HD rules were published in the Federal Register this morning. Effective date of 24/7 HD on AM is September 14, 2007.

Hey guys, new to the board and I am getting an Accurian HD tabletop radio from Radioshack in 2 days, I wonder how the nighttime am dx will go on the digital side when AM flips over to 24/7 hd on September 14th.
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Old 08-15-2007, 01:49 PM
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I think we're all wondering that.
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Old 08-15-2007, 02:22 PM
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My prediction (we'll soon know) is that nighttime DX in HD will be something we all get from time to time, but not with the frequency we get analog dx now (because it will require at least one sideband to be pretty clear, as well as the main channel. I also predict that the interference to analog radio caused by nighttime HD will be far less than most people who are anticipating the "end of the world" expect. That's what I expect. What about you?
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Old 08-15-2007, 02:26 PM
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I'm wondering what effect the ionosphere will have on the HD signal. What effect will the Phase changes have on the signal at the receiver end.
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Old 08-15-2007, 02:30 PM
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I think the interference will be significant, especially to graveyarders, but secondary to the real problem: I expect it just won't work. From here in OC, I have trouble keeping a lock on some of the LA stations in the middle of the day. I think interference from the analog skywaves will render both HD sidebands worthless unless you're VERY close to the transmitter.
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Old 08-15-2007, 03:00 PM
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RF Burns writes "I'm wondering what effect the ionosphere will have on the HD signal. What effect will the Phase changes have on the signal at the receiver end. "

I wonder if the phase changes won't be similar to multipath on HDTV. First generation HDTV receivers were AWFUL when multipath was present, but every current generation unit has automatic equalization to compensate. As a result, current generation digital tvs can often pull in a perfect picture when analog is a ghost-riddled mess. I wonder if HD Radio technology will improve in the same way (my guess is that it will, and fairly rapidly).
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Old 08-15-2007, 04:21 PM
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I had the Accurian HD(But had to return it due to money issues) and it could really cut through the mess as far as HD on AM goes. I.E., when there was a good of amount of interference(analog) on 1510 WLAC AM from Nashville,TN, once it locked into the hd signal(and it didn't take long to do that, it would sound perfect, I almost never lost the HD signal unless I put it real close to a metal object. I plan on getting another one in a couple of days, I am so excited about this AM HD at night thing.
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Old 08-15-2007, 06:01 PM
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I did some digital DXing with Digital Radio Mondale a few years ago. If you got a solid clear signal it worked great sometimes for several minutes straight. When it faded out even slightly you heard nothing. Of course the fading signal was far more common than the perfect signal. At least HD Radio has analog to fall back on.

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Old 08-16-2007, 09:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Walker View Post

I wonder if the phase changes won't be similar to multipath on HDTV. First generation HDTV receivers were AWFUL when multipath was present, but every current generation unit has automatic equalization to compensate. As a result, current generation digital tvs can often pull in a perfect picture when analog is a ghost-riddled mess. I wonder if HD Radio technology will improve in the same way (my guess is that it will, and fairly rapidly).

The digital data on HD Radio is done much differently than HDTV. HD Radio uses Orthogonal Frequency Division Multiplexing (OFDM) for its digital data. It is already fairly robust with regard to multipath. It will not improve without a change in the transmission parameters. (It probably won't have to.) HDTV signals use a different modulation scheme. HDTV wasn't originally designed for mobile operation, but it is being enhanced to allow more robust transmission, including mobile. All HDTV tuners have adaptive equalizers. Newer tuners are more able to handle stronger echos (multipath) at a wider range of time offsets, including positive (earlier) ones. That's why newer HDTV tuners work better than their earlier bretheren.
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Old 08-16-2007, 10:18 AM
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I was aware of the different modulation techniques, but not aware that such equalization had always been used in HDTV tuners, and that it's simply more effective now. VALUABLE insight, for which I'm grateful! And I'm GLAD YOU'RE HERE hphase! WE ALL VALUE YOUR INPUT, and welcome your posts. Glad you decided to stay! I'd feel rotten if I thought anything I (we) posted here sent you, or anyone else who came here for an honest debate, packing!
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Old 08-16-2007, 10:20 AM
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Also HD Rado has a lot more error correction and redundancy so if the receiver misses some data, it can wait and get it a moment later. The side bands effectively send the same data twice on two different frequencies. That's why we're getting such a low bitrate for the amount of bandwidth it's using.

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