Do you thrash your woofers? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 32 Old 03-21-2008, 09:48 AM - Thread Starter
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So while playing Missy Elliott - Ching-a-ling, I noticed my clip lights coming on my CE-4000. I have one SDX-15 per channel for a 4ohm load, which equates to about 1kw. While that's not torturous, it's still a fair bit for that song.

These are some pretty stout speakers though.

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post #2 of 32 Old 03-21-2008, 09:57 AM
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I ended up blowing one of my 18" passive radiators (2 per cube + driver). When the weight separates from the face you get a nice hammering sound from the sub. Fortunately it's an easy fix with glue (vs burning a voice coil or blowing an amp).
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post #3 of 32 Old 03-21-2008, 10:07 AM
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Its just the amps way of screaming from the pain of her voice.. ROFL.. j/k
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post #4 of 32 Old 03-21-2008, 11:10 AM
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Missy Elliott <-- thats the problem

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post #5 of 32 Old 03-21-2008, 11:15 AM
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Lucky the amp did not leak its caps the moment the "singing started" and voice coils produce the blue smoke!

Ask yourself mortal , do you have as much displacement as me ? The answer is no unless you have a Windmere fan sub.
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post #6 of 32 Old 03-21-2008, 12:10 PM
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Yep, clip lights lighting up pretty regularily on my QSC PLXII 3102, driving a TC 3000 15" in a 3.3 net cube sealed box. Takes it like a champ, and not one whimper of distress. Amp is bridged, and all 4 coils wired in series.

"You take the blue pill - the story ends, you wake up in your bed and believe whatever you want to believe. You take the red pill - you stay in Wonderland and I show you how deep the rabbit-hole goes."
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post #7 of 32 Old 03-21-2008, 02:29 PM
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Me too. Gave my RE XXX18 everything one of my CE4000's had, bridged into it, with the vc's in series at 4ohms during testing. I was using Crowbar's cd Oddfellows rest track #3. Tons of sub 30hz bass on this track. Oh yeah that was free-air. I would not do that with many subs. I think many less substantial subs would've had bad issues.
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post #8 of 32 Old 03-21-2008, 02:56 PM
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No... I really baby them. I never turn the knob past 9:00 O-clock and I only listen to elevator music.


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post #9 of 32 Old 03-21-2008, 06:13 PM - Thread Starter
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Kevin, looks like you were playing Yani just a little too loud. Did you have the "bass boost" on? Is that one of your current production drivers?

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post #10 of 32 Old 03-21-2008, 06:36 PM
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It is an XJ-15 that one of my customers smoked. If you look at the former its been smacked against the back plate in addition to the coil being cooked.

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post #11 of 32 Old 03-21-2008, 07:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by michael hurd View Post

Yep, clip lights lighting up pretty regularily on my QSC PLXII 3102, driving a TC 3000 15" in a 3.3 net cube sealed box. Takes it like a champ, and not one whimper of distress. Amp is bridged, and all 4 coils wired in series.

Seriously? I know the 3000 is beastly, but the 3102 should be as well...I mean...it must be quite loud if the clip lights are regularly coming on. Thats 1600W+, right?
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post #12 of 32 Old 03-21-2008, 07:28 PM
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Mike shakes his eardrums,the Beast replica is not enough ! But he does not have Bosso's 3.5Hz !!!

Ask yourself mortal , do you have as much displacement as me ? The answer is no unless you have a Windmere fan sub.
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post #13 of 32 Old 03-21-2008, 08:07 PM
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Seriously.

QSC rates the amp to do 2100 into 8R bridged.... but even if it does 1800 watts... still lots of juice. I can trip the breaker in about 8 seconds flat with program material such as Disturbed. No maladities such as what Kevin posted above, and I did a "mini" marathon fest cranking tunes at clipping levels for about 7 hours.

The box was hot ( yes! ), the surround hot, the basket hot, and when I flopped the box on it's back, I threw a wet cloth on the cone with an icepack. 8 machine screws later I was lifting the 3000 out of the box.... motor was damn hot, probably 250+ F. I detatched the top assy with an allen key and threw the motor out on the concrete steps to cool. ( hey it was about -26C or so )

Some extra epoxy on the long former got burned off, but no problem with the coil at all.

"You take the blue pill - the story ends, you wake up in your bed and believe whatever you want to believe. You take the red pill - you stay in Wonderland and I show you how deep the rabbit-hole goes."
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post #14 of 32 Old 03-21-2008, 09:10 PM
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Mike,

You should install a heatpipe,from basket/motor linked to the outside.

Ask yourself mortal , do you have as much displacement as me ? The answer is no unless you have a Windmere fan sub.
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post #15 of 32 Old 03-21-2008, 11:14 PM
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Arthur... sent you an email... call me if you have time.

"You take the blue pill - the story ends, you wake up in your bed and believe whatever you want to believe. You take the red pill - you stay in Wonderland and I show you how deep the rabbit-hole goes."
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post #16 of 32 Old 03-22-2008, 05:42 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheEAR View Post

Mike,

You should install a heatpipe,from basket/motor linked to the outside.

I'm sure that's what Mike PM'd you about, but how would someone (that didn't PM you) go about doing that?

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post #17 of 32 Old 03-23-2008, 12:23 AM
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Actually it wasn't what I emailed him about... it was a few questions about a woofer that he has in his possession.

"You take the blue pill - the story ends, you wake up in your bed and believe whatever you want to believe. You take the red pill - you stay in Wonderland and I show you how deep the rabbit-hole goes."
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post #18 of 32 Old 03-23-2008, 05:09 AM - Thread Starter
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Oh that's cool.

Still curious about that heat pipe though.

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post #19 of 32 Old 03-23-2008, 09:27 AM
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You are sure about emails I get ! I did not know spies follow my every move and post.Like Mike said your guess was wrong.

I have many ideas regarding subs I will apply to my future sub designs (not heatpipe related).

Ask yourself mortal , do you have as much displacement as me ? The answer is no unless you have a Windmere fan sub.
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post #20 of 32 Old 03-23-2008, 01:41 PM - Thread Starter
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Oh, I know all about you. I know you're from Montreal; Your first name is The and your last is EAR.

I may have job waiting for me at the FBI or CIA, what'a you think?

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post #21 of 32 Old 03-23-2008, 01:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Looneybomber View Post

I'm sure that's what Mike PM'd you about, but how would someone (that didn't PM you) go about doing that?

Arthur is just being sarcastic with ideas I posted in another thread.

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post #22 of 32 Old 03-23-2008, 02:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spezzy View Post

Arthur is just being sarcastic with ideas I posted in another thread.



I heard some want to reach DC and will use liquid cooling ,to bring driver motor assemblies near absolute zero. All this while remaining "practical" .

Ask yourself mortal , do you have as much displacement as me ? The answer is no unless you have a Windmere fan sub.
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post #23 of 32 Old 03-23-2008, 02:38 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spezzy View Post

Arthur is just being sarcastic with ideas I posted in another thread.

Aww man. I'm actually interested in ways to cool a woofer. I even found some cool battery powered thermometers with LCD's used for computers that will go up to 203ºF. Figured I'd get one for my amp and pondered on getting a couple for each of my woofers.

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post #24 of 32 Old 03-24-2008, 12:42 AM
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Most pro and high end stuff will survive at 400 degree coil temps. A thermometer that only goes to 203 would probably be on the high end with 150-200 watts input.

"You take the blue pill - the story ends, you wake up in your bed and believe whatever you want to believe. You take the red pill - you stay in Wonderland and I show you how deep the rabbit-hole goes."
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post #25 of 32 Old 03-24-2008, 05:39 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by michael hurd View Post

Most pro and high end stuff will survive at 400 degree coil temps. A thermometer that only goes to 203 would probably be on the high end with 150-200 watts input.

Yeah. The thermometer I was looking at would only be able to fit on the exterior of the motor. By the time it hits 200º that VC has already been cooking at 300º+ for a while. It's a pointless idea really. I'll just get one for the amp instead.

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post #26 of 32 Old 03-24-2008, 10:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheEAR View Post



I heard some want to reach DC and will use liquid cooling ,to bring driver motor assemblies near absolute zero. All this while remaining "practical" .

Wasn't what I said, get your story straight Arthur.

Anyways, freezing temperature is very practical. With a liquid cooled peltier you can achieve -40F on the peltier pretty easily.
$50 for a 62mm peltier off of ebay.
$200 for a water cooling kit including block.

Seem fairly practical to me. You spend $900 for a driver but can't find $250-$300 reasonable for cooling?

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post #27 of 32 Old 03-24-2008, 10:38 AM
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There is a bit of a difference between -40F and absolute zero, about 420F however, with those acoupower drivers, they are flushing so much air in and out of the motor that its more practical to cool the air around it rather than the outside of the heatsinks. It'd be nice get a setup that cools the air inside the box to subzero temps and just lets the drivers airflow do the cooling work, you don't want massive hot/cold spots in the motor itself as that will cause it to warp and put a lot of strain on the metal ware.
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post #28 of 32 Old 03-24-2008, 10:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by armystud0911 View Post

There is a bit of a difference between -40F and absolute zero, about 420F however, with those acoupower drivers, they are flushing so much air in and out of the motor that its more practical to cool the air around it rather than the outside of the heatsinks. It'd be nice get a setup that cools the air inside the box to subzero temps and just lets the drivers airflow do the cooling work, you don't want massive hot/cold spots in the motor itself as that will cause it to warp and put a lot of strain on the metal ware.


Exactly.

I ran the Acoupower drivers at over 2 inches of excusion and ...there is major air being moved to cool the VC/magnet. Major air,there is no way you can roast those voice coils unless serious abuse is done.

I should post videos,maybe I will on YouTube...

You have people with $4.99 drivers posting vids there,why should the world not see the Acoupower in all its glory,excusion glory that is.

Ask yourself mortal , do you have as much displacement as me ? The answer is no unless you have a Windmere fan sub.
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post #29 of 32 Old 03-25-2008, 02:22 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by armystud0911 View Post

There is a bit of a difference between -40F and absolute zero, about 420F however, with those acoupower drivers, they are flushing so much air in and out of the motor that its more practical to cool the air around it rather than the outside of the heatsinks. It'd be nice get a setup that cools the air inside the box to subzero temps and just lets the drivers airflow do the cooling work, you don't want massive hot/cold spots in the motor itself as that will cause it to warp and put a lot of strain on the metal ware.

Cooling the enclosure air is a great idea, but that would also cause the suspension parts (surround and spider(s)) to stiffen up and raise the Qms and fs. It'd be nice if there was a way to vent cool air (30-40º) directly into the gap, but that's beyond me.

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post #30 of 32 Old 03-27-2008, 12:24 AM
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Use more drivers is the obvious answer.

If you made the inside of the box cold that would alter the air density versus the outside, that can't be great for the tuning either
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