96lbs. of Love! - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 59 Old 04-18-2008, 01:06 PM - Thread Starter
Advanced Member
 
04FLHRCI's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 777
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
I wasn't expecting this guy until Monday; good thing I was home to provide a signature.

Bring on the Sicko!

Larry
LL
LL
04FLHRCI is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 59 Old 04-18-2008, 01:08 PM
AVS Special Member
 
armystud0911's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Cincinnati
Posts: 4,423
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 14
hmm, I thought you were gonna post pics of some 5'1 blond that you took home last night.
armystud0911 is offline  
post #3 of 59 Old 04-18-2008, 01:09 PM - Thread Starter
Advanced Member
 
04FLHRCI's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 777
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Then I'd have to give up the A/V hobby and adopt a lawyer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by armystud0911 View Post

hmm, I thought you were gonna post pics of some 5'1 blond that you took home last night.

04FLHRCI is offline  
post #4 of 59 Old 04-18-2008, 01:11 PM
AVS Special Member
 
sound dropouts's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Charlotte
Posts: 1,401
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:


Then I'd have to give up the A/V hobby and adopt a lawyer.

dude, for a blond it is totally worth it
sound dropouts is offline  
post #5 of 59 Old 04-18-2008, 01:26 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Looneybomber's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Lawrence, KS
Posts: 4,668
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 23
Nice! Have you ordered replacement fans for it yet?

YID DIY
Looneybomber is offline  
post #6 of 59 Old 04-18-2008, 01:27 PM
AVS Special Member
 
thylantyr's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 3,887
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by 04FLHRCI View Post

I wasn't expecting this guy until Monday; good thing I was home to provide a signature.

Bring on the Sicko!

Larry

If you look at the QSC RMX4050 or 5050 back panel, there
is something there that is revealing & bugs me. I've told
people here and in pm.

A simple riddle, any takers?

Hint: Look at the back panel of this Face amp and compare
to the QSC.



The storm was gone, but dark clouds still hung around
The perfect setting for things to come......

thylantyr is offline  
post #7 of 59 Old 04-18-2008, 01:50 PM - Thread Starter
Advanced Member
 
04FLHRCI's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 777
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
No Sir; I haven't looked into this yet - I'm certainly open to input thought.

Larry

Quote:
Originally Posted by Looneybomber View Post

Nice! Have you ordered replacement fans for it yet?

04FLHRCI is offline  
post #8 of 59 Old 04-18-2008, 01:56 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Bob7145's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Dollars, Taxes
Posts: 2,102
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by thylantyr View Post

If you look at the QSC RMX4050 or 5050 back panel, there
is something there that is revealing & bugs me. I've told
people here and in pm.

A simple riddle, any takers?

Hint: Look at the back panel of this Face amp and compare
to the QSC.

Well the Qsc @ 1300w per channel =2600w on 10amps?
The Face has 15amp plug 1800w limit?
Face has input sensitivity switch?
Bob7145 is offline  
post #9 of 59 Old 04-18-2008, 02:13 PM
AVS Special Member
 
cavu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: CANADA
Posts: 6,887
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 13
The specs on this thing are all over the map!

The owner's manual states the F2000TX produces 4200w into 4-ohms bridged with 30A of mains supply. (115V@30A=3450W input )

This amplifier is a Class A/B design which means its theoretical maximum efficiency is less that 78.5% ... therefore the maximum audio output power that can be generated with a 3450W power supply is something less than 2700W !!

In order to generate 4200W, the power supply would have to be a minimum of 5400W which is 115V@47A or 30A@180V. In fact, one table in the owner's manual states that the power requirement is 30A@200V !!!

The only way this could be produced with the existing setup would be to strap the power transformer for 220/240V operation which I doubt very much will meet UL/CSA safety standards.

This amplifier is obviously spec'd and intended for off-shore markets.

"The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance  it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel Boorstin
"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter.
" - MLK

cavu is offline  
post #10 of 59 Old 04-18-2008, 02:14 PM
Senior Member
 
AlexE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Southern Cali, SD area
Posts: 440
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
/drool
AlexE is offline  
post #11 of 59 Old 04-18-2008, 02:26 PM
AVS Special Member
 
thylantyr's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 3,887
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob7145 View Post

Well the Qsc @ 1300w per channel =2600w on 10amps?
The Face has 15amp plug 1800w limit?
Face has input sensitivity switch?

I like the hardwired power cord better on the FACE
Those cheap quick disconnects on the QSC gets a ->

I would probably mod the QSC



The storm was gone, but dark clouds still hung around
The perfect setting for things to come......

thylantyr is offline  
post #12 of 59 Old 04-18-2008, 02:39 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Bob7145's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Dollars, Taxes
Posts: 2,102
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 30
Yes, I do not like the detachable computer type plug either. I have a gaming computer that sometimes has problems with the heavy cord going into the power supply. Zzzzt zzzzzzzzt = check plug.
Bob7145 is offline  
post #13 of 59 Old 04-18-2008, 02:44 PM
AVS Special Member
 
thylantyr's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 3,887
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by cavu View Post

The specs on this thing are all over the map!

The owner's manual states the F2000TX produces 4200w into 4-ohms bridged with 30A of mains supply. (115V@30A=3450W input )

This amplifier is a Class A/B design which means its theoretical maximum efficiency is less that 78.5% ... therefore the maximum audio output power that can be generated with a 3450W power supply is something less than 2700W !!

In order to generate 4200W, the power supply would have to be a minimum of 5400W which is 115V@47A or 30A@180V. In fact, one table in the owner's manual states that the power requirement is 30A@200V !!!

The only way this could be produced with the existing setup would be to strap the power transformer for 220/240V operation which I doubt very much will meet UL/CSA safety standards.

This amplifier is obviously spec'd and intended for off-shore markets.

Before you posted this, did you prepare yourself to get
yelled at for using your brain? I know that common sense
and reasoning can be contagious, but some people are
just against it.

I already pointed out inconsisent marketing data on their
other amp, in another thread, and got yelled at, in spite
that I'm just a messenger of the obvious.

Looking at Face audio marketing once more reveals another
erroneous specification across many of not all the amplifiers. [It has to be an typo because nobody would
design it that way, lol ]

I'll let this riddle float, akin to "Where's Waldo".



Not to beat the rotting dead horse, but what other
specification is not consistent between these two
documents?

http://www.faceaudio.com/pdf/TX.PDF

http://www.faceaudio.com/product2,4.html



The storm was gone, but dark clouds still hung around
The perfect setting for things to come......

thylantyr is offline  
post #14 of 59 Old 04-18-2008, 02:45 PM
AVS Special Member
 
cavu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: CANADA
Posts: 6,887
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob7145 View Post

Yes, I do not like the detachable computer type plug either.

That isn't the BIG PROBLEM with the IEC power connector.

The BIG PROBLEM, as Bob7145 pointed out, is that the connector is limited to 15A. That's a total input power of 1725W which limits the amplifier audio output power to a theoretical maximum of about 1300W.

"The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance  it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel Boorstin
"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter.
" - MLK

cavu is offline  
post #15 of 59 Old 04-18-2008, 02:46 PM
AVS Special Member
 
thylantyr's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 3,887
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob7145 View Post

Yes, I do not like the detachable computer type plug either. I have a gaming computer that sometimes has problems with the heavy cord going into the power supply. Zzzzt zzzzzzzzt = check plug.

Give the beast a 30A circuit unless it voids warranty,
and should be ok, it has two fuses on the back panel.



The storm was gone, but dark clouds still hung around
The perfect setting for things to come......

thylantyr is offline  
post #16 of 59 Old 04-18-2008, 02:47 PM
AVS Special Member
 
thylantyr's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 3,887
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by cavu View Post

That isn't the BIG PROBLEM with the IEC power connector.

The BIG PROBLEM, as Bob7145 pointed out, is that the connector is limited to 15A. That's a total input power of 1725W which limits the amplifier audio output power to a theoretical maximum of about 1300W.

Relax... I'm in the same boat as you

There is ways to solve this.



The storm was gone, but dark clouds still hung around
The perfect setting for things to come......

thylantyr is offline  
post #17 of 59 Old 04-18-2008, 02:48 PM
AVS Special Member
 
cavu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: CANADA
Posts: 6,887
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by thylantyr View Post

what other specification is not consistent between these two documents?

You wouldn't mean the delta of 28 pounds??

"The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance  it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel Boorstin
"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter.
" - MLK

cavu is offline  
post #18 of 59 Old 04-18-2008, 02:49 PM
AVS Special Member
 
thylantyr's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 3,887
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by cavu View Post

You wouldn't mean the delta of 28 pounds??



The bigger riddle is still open to analysis. Check it out,
it's not an easy find.

Hint: magnifying glass on the text



The storm was gone, but dark clouds still hung around
The perfect setting for things to come......

thylantyr is offline  
post #19 of 59 Old 04-18-2008, 02:59 PM
AVS Special Member
 
cavu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: CANADA
Posts: 6,887
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 13
Well, both documents tout a slew rate of 40V/millisecond. Must sound like a hydraulic cylinder. (They correct that in the owner's manual.)

"The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance  it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel Boorstin
"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter.
" - MLK

cavu is offline  
post #20 of 59 Old 04-18-2008, 03:02 PM
AVS Special Member
 
thylantyr's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 3,887
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by cavu View Post

Well, both documents tout a slew rate of 40V/millisecond. Must sound like a hydraulic cylinder. (They correct that in the owner's manual.)

Woot!

They have three different documents to describe the product and they need to correlate all three documents.

I know that is a tough job to do for a company that has been in business for 10 years.



The storm was gone, but dark clouds still hung around
The perfect setting for things to come......

thylantyr is offline  
post #21 of 59 Old 04-18-2008, 03:27 PM
AVS Special Member
 
cavu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: CANADA
Posts: 6,887
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by thylantyr View Post

Woot!

Actually the slew rate was the very first thing I noticed when I scanned the specs but ignored it as it is an obvious typo ... I don't think they are deliberately conning the public by understating their slew rate by a factor of 1000!

"The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance  it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel Boorstin
"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter.
" - MLK

cavu is offline  
post #22 of 59 Old 04-18-2008, 03:30 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Bob7145's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Dollars, Taxes
Posts: 2,102
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by thylantyr View Post

Give the beast a 30A circuit unless it voids warranty,
and should be ok, it has two fuses on the back panel.

In my case it's the plug coming loose causing the Zzzzt zzzzzt.
Bob7145 is offline  
post #23 of 59 Old 04-18-2008, 03:39 PM
AVS Special Member
 
thylantyr's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 3,887
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by cavu View Post

Actually the slew rate was the very first thing I noticed when I scanned the specs but ignored it as it is an obvious typo ... I don't think they are deliberately conning the public by understating their slew rate by a factor of 1000!


I'm not worried about the con game. We can analyze and figure things out. I'm just picking on the literature because
it's so easy to fix and I wouldn't be happy if it was my
company.

Some heads are gonna roll




The storm was gone, but dark clouds still hung around
The perfect setting for things to come......

thylantyr is offline  
post #24 of 59 Old 04-18-2008, 03:40 PM
AVS Special Member
 
thylantyr's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 3,887
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 18
Fire up the amplifier........




The storm was gone, but dark clouds still hung around
The perfect setting for things to come......

thylantyr is offline  
post #25 of 59 Old 04-18-2008, 03:43 PM
AVS Special Member
 
TheEAR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Montreal,CANADA
Posts: 3,464
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
LOL

Thylantyr...this is some funny material !

I will get this amp regardless...if it clips at the levels I will use it...yes some heads will roll.

There are no pro amps that do not inflate numbers, none can maintain the max output for long and few can deliver on short bursts. Hey what do people expect a Krell MRA for under $3000?

Ask yourself mortal , do you have as much displacement as me ? The answer is no unless you have a Windmere fan sub.
TheEAR is offline  
post #26 of 59 Old 04-18-2008, 03:49 PM
AVS Special Member
 
thylantyr's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 3,887
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 18
What is the current market price for a Krell MRA ?

Using that price tag, what can you do to get similar results
by using other amplifiers ?

/hehehe



The storm was gone, but dark clouds still hung around
The perfect setting for things to come......

thylantyr is offline  
post #27 of 59 Old 04-18-2008, 04:47 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
noah katz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Mountain View, CA USA
Posts: 20,509
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 201 Post(s)
Liked: 154
"I already pointed out inconsisent marketing data on their other amp, in another thread, and got yelled at"

No one disputed Face's marketing discrepancies; you got yelled at for presenting said facts in a totally obnoxious way.

Noah
noah katz is offline  
post #28 of 59 Old 04-18-2008, 04:55 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
noah katz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Mountain View, CA USA
Posts: 20,509
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 201 Post(s)
Liked: 154
"The BIG PROBLEM, as Bob7145 pointed out, is that the connector is limited to 15A. That's a total input power of 1725W which limits the amplifier audio output power to a theoretical maximum of about 1300W."

For the umpteenth time, who except meter jockies run amps w/continuous sine waves?

With program material's crest factor of 6 - 10 dB, clipping a 4000 W amp means the average power (which is what heats things) is 400 - 1000 W, and the effective capacity of 15 A electricals is 60 - 150 A.

Noah
noah katz is offline  
post #29 of 59 Old 04-18-2008, 06:08 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Bob7145's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Dollars, Taxes
Posts: 2,102
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 30
Then why don't they advertise average power?
So my car suddenly has 2000 horsepower?
Bob7145 is offline  
post #30 of 59 Old 04-18-2008, 06:26 PM
Senior Member
 
mgboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: TN, USA
Posts: 296
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob7145 View Post

Then why don't they advertise average power?
So my car suddenly has 2000 horsepower?

Um.. that's not nearly a good example, in fact it's horrid. Vehicles rated whp (at wheel horsepower, not at the crank) is rated at peak, not an average. If you were to rate car's horsepower how amps are generally rated, then they would seem to have much less horsepower.
mgboy is offline  
Reply DIY Speakers and Subs

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off