Bedlam in Goliath: RE Audio XXX18 subwoofer build - Page 11 - AVS Forum
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post #301 of 327 Old 11-27-2009, 07:23 PM - Thread Starter
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Further refinement of the response. I adjusted the phase match with the mains a little more and used a DCX to lessen the 46hz room peak some. I didn't go too crazy with it because I tried not to affect the rest of the response around the 46hz peak too much.

Before and after main listening position.






7 listening position average before and after

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post #302 of 327 Old 01-28-2010, 03:37 PM - Thread Starter
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Back from the abyss...


I heard from QSC today and my newly repaired PL9.0 is on the way back so hopefully I'll be able to finally get all 4 18's running in the system in the next 2 weeks. Diagnosis was a blown ch2 amp module power supply. Took them almost 3 months to get done with it but the total bill was much less than I expected. $350 for the repair and shipping both ways. I was prepared for much worse initially.
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post #303 of 327 Old 01-28-2010, 03:49 PM
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Glad to hear it's among the living again... from the symptoms, a blown power supply was my own suspicion. One hopes this is the last problem you have with either one of those amps. Amp fixing gets old fast at those rates.

Were these originally used units? Even as abusive as WOTW is, I'm still kind of surprised that amp went down. Too bad those AETechrons don't have the ability to push the XXX's that the PL's do.
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post #304 of 327 Old 01-28-2010, 05:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricci View Post

Back from the abyss...


I heard from QSC today and my newly repaired PL9.0 is on the way back so hopefully I'll be able to finally get all 4 18's running in the system in the next 2 weeks. Diagnosis was a blown ch2 amp module power supply. Took them almost 3 months to get done with it but the total bill was much less than I expected. $350 for the repair and shipping both ways. I was prepared for much worse initially.


Yeah - good to hear for sure buddy....

Looking at those graphs they look very close to mine with all 4 subs running off the DCX - clean, with all the delays, phasing and EQ set properly..
Alot of work involved that day...
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post #305 of 327 Old 01-28-2010, 08:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Warpdrv View Post

Yeah - good to hear for sure buddy....

Looking at those graphs they look very close to mine with all 4 subs running off the DCX - clean, with all the delays, phasing and EQ set properly..
Alot of work involved that day...

Warp,
my DCX in on the way. I hope I have the patience to figure it all out.

If I can just create the LT I will be happy for a day...

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post #306 of 327 Old 01-28-2010, 09:02 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oklahoma Wolf View Post

Glad to hear it's among the living again... from the symptoms, a blown power supply was my own suspicion. One hopes this is the last problem you have with either one of those amps. Amp fixing gets old fast at those rates.

Were these originally used units? Even as abusive as WOTW is, I'm still kind of surprised that amp went down. Too bad those AETechrons don't have the ability to push the XXX's that the PL's do.

Yes they were used Clair Bros modified units that were being liquidated. I was surprised that it went down too but when it did it was during the infamous pods emerge scene and I was purposely seeing how far I could take things. I was up a click or 2 past REF level with no HPF and the amp finally clipped hard and that's when it went down. I think there was some loud sub 15hz stuff involved. The 2 drives it was pushing were probably close to their own limits as they were getting man handled very hard. It's the chance you take with a used unit as the big PL's with PFC were known to have massive output girth but they would detonate randomly. My other one hasn't had a hitch yet and I've clipped it a quite few times mucking around with tests and such. Luck of the draw I guess.
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post #307 of 327 Old 01-28-2010, 09:04 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Warpdrv View Post

Yeah - good to hear for sure buddy....

Looking at those graphs they look very close to mine with all 4 subs running off the DCX - clean, with all the delays, phasing and EQ set properly..
Alot of work involved that day...

My current graphs look a little better still than those last ones I posted. I'm hoping that adding the other 2 subs will even things out even more.

Did you get that one 8002 you were having trouble with fixed?
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post #308 of 327 Old 01-28-2010, 09:07 PM
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Damn Ricci, you got some serious woofage there.

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post #309 of 327 Old 01-28-2010, 09:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricci View Post

I was surprised that it went down too but when it did it was during the infamous pods emerge scene and I was purposely seeing how far I could take things. I was up a click or 2 past REF level with no HPF and the amp finally clipped hard and that's when it went down. I think there was some loud sub 15hz stuff involved.

That wouldn't shock me at all - that scene hits my LLT really hard. Gotta love it

From the sounds of it, the clipping was probably the very first sign of failure. PSU section goes down hard, so channel 2 can't keep up anymore and it clips.

Not that I could say anything that hasn't been said already, but those XXX's are some of the coolest drivers out there. With four of them in one room, and soon to be two working PL's pushing them, you've got to have one of the coolest houses in the whole state. And that's not counting all the other cool goodies you have there
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post #310 of 327 Old 01-29-2010, 07:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricci View Post

My current graphs look a little better still than those last ones I posted. I'm hoping that adding the other 2 subs will even things out even more.

Did you get that one 8002 you were having trouble with fixed?


4 subs in room is great, but it def made my response very messy with all the colliding - re-enforcing and pushing up the mid bass area by 10+db and totally killing it all at just a hair under 20hz coming back up at 17 -18hz... although Nuance and I with Mike Hurds priceless input we got it tamed.... Its a good time consuming job - alot of measuring tweaking and comparing - "is that better?" nope put it back and run the sweep again stuff..... After all was said and done and ARC ran on the D2v, I'm pretty much flat all the way to 20Khz. http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d1...MS/subsEqd.jpg

Setting all channels on inputs and outputs to just below clipping, phasing and distancing of each sub, then eq-ing each individual sub as well.. Then we were business.... Response looks fantastic, now.... Can't wait to get that 3rd LMS in a couple of weeks... I guess we'll have to do it all over again...

I haven't gotten to fixing that amp just yet, but a buddy of mine is going to help me tear into it... he's really good with circuitry. My latest project was building a 40tb capacity server, for streaming BluRays and thats all done now.... OH and I got a RACK for all those amps and my server - you'll be proud - I'll post a pic when I get them all mounted.....
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post #311 of 327 Old 01-29-2010, 07:37 AM
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Originally Posted by jpmst3 View Post

Warp,
my DCX in on the way. I hope I have the patience to figure it all out.

If I can just create the LT I will be happy for a day...


Awesome bro.... You will love it... seriously its not hard to use... One thing I will mention - and this will sound stupid, make sure when you make any adjustments on the unit that you hit the "store" button. I couldn't figure out why any of the changes wouldn't make any difference in REW response..... DUH !!!!
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post #312 of 327 Old 01-29-2010, 07:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Warpdrv View Post

Awesome bro.... You will love it... seriously its not hard to use... One thing I will mention - and this will sound stupid, make sure when you make any adjustments on the unit that you hit the "store" button. I couldn't figure out why any of the changes would make any difference in REW response..... DUH !!!!

Thanks Warp!
Is there a predefined setup for the LT circuit?

I will PM you after it arrives so I don't hijack Ricci's thread to hell and back.

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post #313 of 327 Old 01-29-2010, 08:30 AM
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Originally Posted by jpmst3 View Post

Thanks Warp!
Is there a predefined setup for the LT circuit?

I will PM you after it arrives so I don't hijack Ricci's thread to hell and back.


http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Linkiwitz+Trans...t+with+dcx2496

Love that site
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post #314 of 327 Old 01-29-2010, 08:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Warpdrv View Post

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Linkiwitz+Trans...t+with+dcx2496

Love that site

Touche! I always use that and never even thought to Google it!

Unfortunately, it does not lead to anything worthwhile though.

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post #315 of 327 Old 01-29-2010, 09:24 AM
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I would just set up the DCX and start measuring to see what you come up with and then start tweaking from there... You shouldn't have any problems with it, and lots of people here to help you work through it with...
Im no expert - I would say open your thread back up and start working out the process through there so others can jump in that are more experienced then I...
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post #316 of 327 Old 01-29-2010, 10:24 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Warpdrv View Post

4 subs in room is great, but it def made my response very messy with all the colliding - re-enforcing and pushing up the mid bass area by 10+db and totally killing it all at just a hair under 20hz coming back up at 17 -18hz... although Nuance and I with Mike Hurds priceless input we got it tamed.... Its a good time consuming job - alot of measuring tweaking and comparing - "is that better?" nope put it back and run the sweep again stuff..... After all was said and done and ARC ran on the D2v, I'm pretty much flat all the way to 20Khz. http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d1...MS/subsEqd.jpg

Setting all channels on inputs and outputs to just below clipping, phasing and distancing of each sub, then eq-ing each individual sub as well.. Then we were business.... Response looks fantastic, now.... Can't wait to get that 3rd LMS in a couple of weeks... I guess we'll have to do it all over again...

I haven't gotten to fixing that amp just yet, but a buddy of mine is going to help me tear into it... he's really good with circuitry. My latest project was building a 40tb capacity server, for streaming BluRays and thats all done now.... OH and I got a RACK for all those amps and my server - you'll be proud - I'll post a pic when I get them all mounted.....

Shoot I got major improvements from adding subs, but that's with a LOT of tweaking too as you already know. I hope that adding the last 2 cabs helps me out a bit more.

BTW make sure you write down or record all of your settings in word when you get to a "final" place. It can really save you if you get a power outage or your DCX dies for whatever reason. I've had it happen to me and I was really glad that I had my settings backed up a couple of places.

Mike is a good dude to have on your team.

Way to go on that rack.

If your bro can't fix the amp (PFC is a pain) Crest can fix it up for probably less than $300 with shipping. So far I've sent both QSC and Crest amps at some point. It's fairly painless other than the money...
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post #317 of 327 Old 01-29-2010, 10:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricci View Post

BTW make sure you write down or record all of your settings in word when you get to a "final" place. It can really save you if you get a power outage or your DCX dies for whatever reason. I've had it happen to me and I was really glad that I had my settings backed up a couple of places.

That is a great tip Ricci.

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post #318 of 327 Old 01-29-2010, 10:50 AM
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I have my settings backed up to my laptop and also scattered around in different locations/computers at my house for backups.The computer RS-232 interface is nice for fast configurations of the DCX, once you get the hang of the unit on the front panel the software is awesome.

And Yes.... Mike is a veritable encyclopedia of knowledge, couldn't have asked for a better helper - from CANADIA !!!!
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post #319 of 327 Old 01-29-2010, 09:32 PM
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Thanks Warp... glad to hear your PL 9.0 is 'healed up' Ricci... I will be going to the Klipsch gathering in June, if you are free, you should come, I promise you will have a hoot!

"You take the blue pill - the story ends, you wake up in your bed and believe whatever you want to believe. You take the red pill - you stay in Wonderland and I show you how deep the rabbit-hole goes."
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post #320 of 327 Old 02-18-2010, 10:33 AM - Thread Starter
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Another update....The repaired PL9.0 appears to be good to go now and I've moved the other 2 XXX cabs into the room and the DTS10 has been moved out to the rehearsal space. I've been sick for a few days and we've got snow and ice everywhere so things are taking a bit longer to get done than I thought. I did get the positioning of the 4 cabs figured out. 2 are in the front corners the left one has the driver firing out towards the back of the room and the right has the driver firing into the corner about 5" away from the wall. The other 2 are on the back wall out of the corners firing towards each other and the opposite corners. Headroom is not a problem to say the least.

I've got a few days of tweaking to get to the final response but I did take some preliminary graphs after re-calibrating levels. I didn't seem to get as much smoothing as I'd hoped off of adding the other 2cabs, but perhaps further tweaking of the distance/crossover settings will help. I may finally run audyssey at somepoint and see what that does.
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post #321 of 327 Old 02-18-2010, 10:44 AM
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what a headache. i bet moving those around all day is no problem. throw in the mix ice and sickness. yay.
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post #322 of 327 Old 03-17-2010, 01:46 PM - Thread Starter
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Update.

Here is the best response I can seem to get with the current equipment and room. I've been tweaking when I have time for the last 3 weeks and I've started from scratch 3 times. It's not bad and sounds fairly good too. Treatments are next on the list. I still have a lot of reverberation as the walls and ceiling are mostly flat and bare. There's more eq involved than I would like, but until I get some treatments in the room it is needed. I've got about a +6db shelf below 20hz dialed in and a major q10 cut at 45hz to counter a very nasty room resonance. I also have a slight cut with q8 at about 73hz. I'm trying to get the average response as clean as possible with the main position also a prime consideration. Anything that will improve on both is what my eqing decisions were based on.


Main position, subs plus mains, fullrange response, measured in HolmImpulse. 1/3rd octave smoothing.






Main position, bass range, subs plus mains.








Average response, subs plus mains.






Main position waterfall. Needs improvement. Lots of low end energy storage, but I'm stuck with that.






Here is the progression from 1 (green), 2 (red),3 (blue) to 4 (black) subs and how it fills in and improves the response. Multiple cabs around the room are a huge improvement.
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post #323 of 327 Old 03-17-2010, 02:13 PM
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How does this setup compare to the DTS-10?

T6

Clearwave 4TSE and 4CC build thread
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...1#post19489740
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post #324 of 327 Old 03-17-2010, 03:09 PM - Thread Starter
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It's a little bit of an unfair fight for 1 dts10. 4-18's in separate sealed enclosures spread throughout the room to even the response out, on 13kw with eq.
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post #325 of 327 Old 03-17-2010, 10:25 PM
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Ricci,

How do the XXXs compare to the LMS 5400 ? SQ/Output/Extension. You have both right?
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post #326 of 327 Old 03-18-2010, 08:25 AM - Thread Starter
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The LMS is a better all around driver. It's good in a smaller box, is a little bit cleaner and has better extension and output 40-200hz. Probably better thermal power handling as well. The XXX has lower natural extension, and more headroom and output <40hz and is incredibly rugged mechanically while still sounding very smooth.
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post #327 of 327 Old 03-18-2010, 01:06 PM
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Quote:
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The LMS is a better all around driver. It's good in a smaller box, is a little bit cleaner and has better extension and output 40-200hz. Probably better thermal power handling as well. The XXX has lower natural extension, and more headroom and output <40hz and is incredibly rugged mechanically while still sounding very smooth.

So I take it sub 30Hz the XXX is the way to go?
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