Bedlam in Goliath: RE Audio XXX18 subwoofer build - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 327 Old 05-28-2008, 12:25 PM - Thread Starter
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This thread will document the construction of my custom subwoofer, which has been in-progress for a few months now. Please bear with me this is going to be a doozey.

This sub will be based around a new style RE Audio XXX 18 driver. I went with this driver because it has some big claims made about it, no one else was using them for a home application ( I like to be different) and I got a killer deal on it. The other contender's were the LMS5400 (TC started getting shaky, prices went up, service?), the Acoupower 18 (A few DIYer's finally bought some) and the Aurasound NS18( Unavailable). So there you go.

The best thing about and the main problem with the XXX 18 is that it has so much excursion, but you need a large amount of power to use it all. It also likes a really big enclosure sealed or ported. I decided to go ported with it because I wanted to see what it could do tuned really low. Another problem is since this driver can move so much air you need a big port area to keep from overloading the vent. It's really hard to tune super low AND get a large vent area.

I ended up deciding on 25cuft net tuned to 11hz as what I would like to shoot for. It had a decent simulated response and it would take advantage of the driver's excursion capabilities. The problem is that I also wanted more than an 8" or 2 6" ports for this thing to keep the airspeed down, but for that tune an 8" port is already at 38" long and I wanted a 10"er. A 10 would've needed to be 62.5" long! I was thinking of going with a slot port that was folded inside the cab for a bit when I remembered an old article and calculator I had read about in Audio magazine in the late 90's detailing a patented port and bandpass system used by Polk Audio. There was a file that Polk would send you so that DIYer's could fool around with it. I dug up the files and read through the patents and liked what I found. The patents are as follows...

5,517,573
5,809,154
7,162,049

They are quite an interesting read that I highly recommend.

The port system uses a center flow guide and 2 outer inverted cones to directly match the expansion of the inner and outer flares, channeling the air and increasing the area of the entrance and exit of the port. It also provides no straight line path to the outside air and thus supposedly diminishes any port resonances. It also claims it allows much greater control over chuffing, turbulence and a lower tuning to be achieved. I decided to go out on a limb and try this port system, even though nearly everyone I've spoken with about it seems to think it's a waste of time, will not live up to the hype, or just doesn't comprehend how it works. We will see...just like with the driver.

I also had a certain area in my room that I needed this to fit in so I had dimensional constraints too. I could go no bigger than a 42" X 23" footprint. It will be a huge sub and it will be in plain sight, so I also needed it to be good looking. After running over the logistics of all of this in my head I decided...I don't have the skills,tools, or time to tackle this.

I started looking for someone who I felt was the right kind of person for this job. I looked at some local woodworkers, but they didn't have the required audio knowledge. I looked at ElementalDesigns too, but they were too busy and took forever to get me a quote even. Finally I saw some of the things being done by FunkyWaves Audio and got in touch with Nathan Funk. I layed everything out, all my ideas, wants and I included some 3D mock-ups. He was really helpful and confident about things, we brainstormed a bit, hashed out the game plan and got the ball rolling...

Let me go ahead and say this...I will not talk about cost. Also I know that I could've done a million other things that were:louder, more cost effective, smaller, more practical, blah blah blah, "why not 8 of these sealed with yadda yadda"?. That's great. If you wish to do those things then by all means please do and start a thread about it too. This is what I wanted to do.

I'll be adding a lot of pictures and other things shortly.


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post #2 of 327 Old 05-28-2008, 12:44 PM - Thread Starter
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Here are the parameters for the port that I decided to go with. It's pretty self explanatory. The calculator claims that the vent area at the exits is equal to a 14.87" vent. The straight pipe length is 36.5" instead of 62.5" for an 11hz tune.





The vent area is equal to a 14.87" vent at the exits due to the entire perimeter of the port becoming the mouth as shown highlighted in green and red here.



However the center flow guide cuts down the useable area of the 10" port to the area of a 9.38" diameter port. No big loss there though. Here is a cut-away rendering of the entire port structure.



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post #3 of 327 Old 05-28-2008, 12:54 PM - Thread Starter
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This is the simulated response of the finished subwoofer system using UniBox. The vent resonances shown should be much different and hopefully more damped than is shown because Unibox think this is a regular straight 9.38" x 54" vent.












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post #4 of 327 Old 05-28-2008, 12:59 PM - Thread Starter
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Here is a 3D mock-up of the cabinet that I sent to Nathan along with the previous items among a few other things. The bracing was nothing definite. It was just ideas and I told Nathan to just do whatever he felt was necessary to brace the cab.




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post #5 of 327 Old 05-28-2008, 01:13 PM - Thread Starter
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Here is short breakdown of exactly what was decided on and will be used.

Driver= RE Audio XXX18 new version
Amplifier= Crown CE4000
EQ = Behringer DCx2496 and Rane PE-17
Enclosure= 25cu ft after port, driver and bracing displacement. Tuned to 11hz via 10"(9.38"effective dia) port using patented porting technique.

Additional enclosure details: We decided to go for marine Birch ply construction and casters to save some weight. We are estimating the finished sub with the driver in it to be well north of 300lbs. Also the driver will be flush mounted w triple thick baffle around the mounting area, there will be pro audio style handles, neutrik style connectors, a custom bar grill, round over edges, and the finish will be bubinga veneer with solid bubinga corner inlays.

That's it for today. Will post some more tomorrow.


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post #6 of 327 Old 05-28-2008, 04:31 PM
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Excellent. An RE xxx build. This will be cool to see.

YID DIY
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post #7 of 327 Old 05-28-2008, 05:11 PM
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Serious sub project,mighty driver in a cabinet that will let it work its magic. I like,this will be one to follow.

Ask yourself mortal , do you have as much displacement as me ? The answer is no unless you have a Windmere fan sub.
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post #8 of 327 Old 05-28-2008, 09:02 PM
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Should be interesting to say the least, I look forward to the final finished product as well as some in-progress photos.... that is if Funky Waves takes some of it.

Regarding cost. If I posted what the "Beast" replica cost me to have built, I am sure I would hear some cries of protest. I knew that it was not going to be cheap, nor would I make it half-assed. Whole hog or nothing. I hope I did the prototype proud, as far as construction, fit and finish.

Ricci, if you can afford it, by all means go for it! There is nothing better than getting what you want when the sky is the limit.

As far as power plants, that is going to have to wait a bit for some $$$ to replentish what was vacuumed out of my account. I had to grab that last LMS, as I am sure that they are going to be hard to get in the future.

"You take the blue pill - the story ends, you wake up in your bed and believe whatever you want to believe. You take the red pill - you stay in Wonderland and I show you how deep the rabbit-hole goes."
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post #9 of 327 Old 05-28-2008, 09:46 PM
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Not sure what you paid for the Beast, but I think TC was gonna charge $10k for theirs and it wasn't going to have nearly the amp you have, if you beat their price or were even similar, you have nothing to be worried about! The Gotham is far less of a sub, but it runs $11k sticker.
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post #10 of 327 Old 05-29-2008, 09:10 AM - Thread Starter
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[quote=michael hurd;13967176]
Regarding cost. If I posted what the "Beast" replica cost me to have built, I am sure I would hear some cries of protest. I knew that it was not going to be cheap, nor would I make it half-assed. Whole hog or nothing. I hope I did the prototype proud, as far as construction, fit and finish.

Ricci, if you can afford it, by all means go for it! There is nothing better than getting what you want when the sky is the limit.
QUOTE]

Thanks Mike. I feel the same way. All or nothing. Your "Beast2" project is very impressive and I love the fit n finish put into it.

Here's some pics of one of my XXX's and CE4000's








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post #11 of 327 Old 05-29-2008, 09:44 AM - Thread Starter
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The following are pics that Nathan took of the beginning of the build.

This is some of the materials. Solid Bubinga for the corners,Bubinga veneer, 10" sonotube for the port, 3.5" pipe for the port flowguide, etc.




This is the basic panels cut and getting ready for assembly. The 4 multi layer pieces are all for the port system. The left 2 will be made into the flow guides at the entrance and exit of the port.




Here is the flow guides being made from the pieces shown in the previous photo, using a big honkin lathe! A personal favorite pic.



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post #12 of 327 Old 05-29-2008, 09:53 AM - Thread Starter
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Here is the main structure of the cab put together. Look at the bracing!!! This was about the time I started to get really stoked.





Here is the powerport fitted in the cab. You can get an idea of the scale if you remember that is a 10" sonotube and the spacing between the disks on the end is 3.25".



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post #13 of 327 Old 05-29-2008, 10:34 AM
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Great work ! All or nothing...I like. No half full or half empty here.

Ricci you have a PM

Ask yourself mortal , do you have as much displacement as me ? The answer is no unless you have a Windmere fan sub.
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post #14 of 327 Old 05-29-2008, 10:47 AM
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I, too, like the lathe pic.

Looks like a fun project. since you're spending money on quality parts, it's nice to see you didntt skimp on the veneer either! That bubinga should look beautiful.
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post #15 of 327 Old 05-29-2008, 10:54 AM
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SEXY! Ricci, that picture looks pretty familiar, I made some port flares out of fiberglass ( 6" flared up over 11" ), I made the mold on the wood lathe out of MDF, primed and painted it so that I could directly mold on the painted surface.

They turned out pretty mint! Here is a link: http://forums.klipsch.com/forums/p/8...96.aspx#903996

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post #16 of 327 Old 05-29-2008, 11:24 AM
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michael, did you put any work into the design of the flares or kind of a "this looks right" approach?
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post #17 of 327 Old 05-29-2008, 11:43 AM
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If you are asking whether or not I used a mathematical model, no I didn't. I have read a bit about laminar air flow as it applies to engines, but a port is AC, compared to the DC flow in an intake manifold, etc.

I do know that it is purty, and I am sure that it is a hell of a lot better than a 3/4" roundover, or no roundover at all. One of these days I need to try out that Power Port design.

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post #18 of 327 Old 05-29-2008, 11:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by michael hurd View Post

If you are asking whether or not I used a mathematical model, no I didn't. I have read a bit about laminar air flow as it applies to engines, but a port is AC, compared to the DC flow in an intake manifold, etc.

I do know that it is purty, and I am sure that it is a hell of a lot better than a 3/4" roundover, or no roundover at all. One of these days I need to try out that Power Port design.

Are you attacking my 3/4" roundovers? He he

No worries I took care of flaring...sealed is the way.

Ask yourself mortal , do you have as much displacement as me ? The answer is no unless you have a Windmere fan sub.
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post #19 of 327 Old 05-29-2008, 11:47 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by michael hurd View Post

SEXY! Ricci, that picture looks pretty familiar, I made some port flares out of fiberglass ( 6" flared up over 11" ), I made the mold on the wood lathe out of MDF, primed and painted it so that I could directly mold on the painted surface.

They turned out pretty mint! Here is a link: http://forums.klipsch.com/forums/p/8...96.aspx#903996

Those are some really nice flares Mike especially the finish. Do you still have the molds? Did some of the flares ever get used in a project?


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post #20 of 327 Old 05-29-2008, 11:48 AM
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Gotcha, I was curious because acoupower seems to take a slightly different approach to flares than some other brands, however, one thing they really stressed was making the end of the flare twice as large as the port which you seemed to do. Standard roundovers are useless as far as reducing compression, yet I have still used them before simply for aesthetics when I don't need a flare.
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post #21 of 327 Old 05-29-2008, 11:53 AM
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Yes, I still have the molds, I made a pair of molds, and they are so very close ( I made a pattern off the first one ) As far as using them in a project so far... not quite yet. I like to "tinker" when I have spare time.

Think of a cloverleaf style ( think sectioned into thirds ) and glassed back together triple 6" flared port with the tubes tight together.... hehehehe... the sky's the limit!

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post #22 of 327 Old 05-29-2008, 11:58 AM - Thread Starter
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More pics of the build. Here is the exit of the power port, the base plate and the caster's. 3.25" spacing. By the way the overall dimensions on this haus are 41.5x22x66.





That is Nathan standing in the cabinet after assembly...When I saw this I was like "Sweet little 2lb newborn infant baby Jesus...what have I done?!"



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Keep em comin!
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You have to respect a subwoofer cabinet that you can stand in!!!!!!!

Me Likey! Btw, quick question: are you going to install any rockwool /OC 705 etc inside to deal with the higher frequency resonances? I think I would affix a piece of 4" material inside a cloth sock spaced away from each side wall and one on the top.

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post #25 of 327 Old 05-29-2008, 12:17 PM - Thread Starter
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Ask and ye Shall recieve! Here is a full on shot of the cabinet. Think this is over the size limit for WAF?








This is the baseplate in the process of being finished. Notice the XXX top assembly in the background. The edges are made of the solid bubinga wood and most of the corners on the sub will be the same way.




Here is the sub after the bubinga veneer was applied. Mmmmm Hmmmmm



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Quote:
Originally Posted by michael hurd View Post

You have to respect a subwoofer cabinet that you can stand in!!!!!!!

Me Likey! Btw, quick question: are you going to install any rockwool /OC 705 etc inside to deal with the higher frequency resonances? I think I would affix a piece of 4" material inside a cloth sock spaced away from each side wall and one on the top.



I'm not real sure what I'm going to do about damping/lining...Honestly that's one thing we didn't cover. I'm not too concerned though I can always take the driver out and climb back in the cabinet with a flashlight to install some or mess around. Actually I could try a few different techniques/materials if I feel the need.

I like the Tri 6" cloverleaf port idea. It may not be the most practical thing but it would look COOL.


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post #27 of 327 Old 05-29-2008, 01:29 PM
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Respect the BIG BOX, and throw the WAF out the door. That is the spirit,this one will be tough to pass for an end table.

Looking at this Goliath...that is one serious sub you will have.

Ask yourself mortal , do you have as much displacement as me ? The answer is no unless you have a Windmere fan sub.
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post #28 of 327 Old 05-29-2008, 03:02 PM
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I hope you're going to rent a U-Haul to pick that monster up!

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post #29 of 327 Old 05-29-2008, 03:13 PM
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Sweeeeet! Reminds me of my twins. Mine may not be a XXX but an 18 nonetheless. Very nice work, Ricci. Definitely gotta hear some reports on that sucker once you power it up.


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post #30 of 327 Old 05-29-2008, 05:50 PM
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excellent thread. good stuff ricci.

I'm still curious to see how the port will perform, but I'm sure you will keep us posted.


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