4 x eD 13Kv.2 vs 1 x eD 19Ov.2? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 117 Old 06-11-2008, 08:08 AM - Thread Starter
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I've been looking for an amp for a build I'm considering doing with 4 of the eD clearance drivers. I finally found and ordered the right amp at the right price (an EP2500) then ordered the 4 drivers. However, I got poking around and found that I could get the 19Ov.2 shipped for ~$60 less than the 4 13Kv.2 drivers. I'm wondering what you guys think would be the better option. I want to go sealed but the 13Kv.2 drops off quick in a sealed box, I don't really know how much EQ'ing can do to fix this...

Any help/opinions would be appreciated.

Edited to add specs:

13Kv.2:

Qts: .31
Qes: .35
Qms: 3.33
Fs: 21.5 Hz
Re: 3.7
Vas: 162 L
Mms: 142 g
Bl: 15 T*m
SPL: 88.47 dB
Sd: 545 cm^2
Xmax: 15.1 mm
Voice Coil: 50 mm

19Ov.2:
Qts: .369
Qes: .37
Qms: 7.5
Fs: 26 Hz
Re: 3.5
Vas: 228 L
Mms: 307 g
Bl: 22.1 T*m
SPL: 90.5 dB
Sd: 1200 cm^2
Xmax: 22 mm
Voice Coil: 62.5 mm


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post #2 of 117 Old 06-11-2008, 08:22 AM
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i havent had any experience with the 13kv but i can tell you that the 19ov will kick some serious butt (i have four sealed)...others with more experience with the former might help, but im sure you will not be dissapointed by either.

with 4 drivers, you might be able to move more air while keeping distortion low, i just dont know how it compares directly to the 19ov...give eD a call and talk to them about it. they are awesome!
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post #3 of 117 Old 06-11-2008, 08:39 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mdk2007 View Post

i havent had any experience with the 13kv but i can tell you that the 19ov will kick some serious butt (i have four sealed)...others with more experience with the former might help, but im sure you will not be dissapointed by either.

with 4 drivers, you might be able to move more air while keeping distortion low, i just dont know how it compares directly to the 19ov...give eD a call and talk to them about it. they are awesome!

Thanks for the input! I did email eD to see what their take on it is. It may be a moot point as I think the 13Kv.2's may have already shipped... stupid buyers remorse!

If I put the 13Kv.2's in a sealed box can a BFD do miracles to flatten the response? I'll have to post a graph later to show what I'm talking about, it drops off pretty quickly (although the room reinforcement will help some down low)


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post #4 of 117 Old 06-11-2008, 09:02 AM
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IDK about the 13Kv.2, but the 3 19Ov.2 D2's I tested did not meet published spec.

You are probably better off with the 13Kv.2's anyhow

Regards,
Dan
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post #5 of 117 Old 06-11-2008, 09:16 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NEO Dan View Post

IDK about the 13Kv.2, but the 3 19Ov.2 D2's I tested did not meet published spec.

You are probably better off with the 13Kv.2's anyhow

Thanks for that, it's really helping my buyers remorse...

Also, I saw in your easy button end table thread you were going to try to mod the EP2500 high pass filter, did you ever get anywhere with that?


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post #6 of 117 Old 06-11-2008, 11:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NEO Dan View Post

IDK about the 13Kv.2, but the 3 19Ov.2 D2's I tested did not meet published spec.

Would you care to elaborate on that Dan? I know I for one am interested what the back story to that is. I almost bought some 190v2's.


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post #7 of 117 Old 06-11-2008, 05:28 PM
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I am about to buy 2 190v.2s. I would also like some clarification.
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post #8 of 117 Old 06-11-2008, 05:31 PM
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Quote:


EP2500 high pass filter, did you ever get anywhere with that?

it has a high pass filter?

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post #9 of 117 Old 06-11-2008, 05:51 PM
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Wasn't he making one for it? Internally like the 1500, but lower?
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post #10 of 117 Old 06-11-2008, 06:09 PM - Thread Starter
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See snippet from Dan's Easy button end table thread below (it's in the first post of the thread linked to in Dan's signature):

Quote:
Originally Posted by NEO Dan View Post

Every version should include some form of subsonic filter at ~10Hz, the PE and BASH plate amps are easiest, I can calculate the resistor values and post them. Once I get the EP2500 I plan on figuring out how to mod the filters, I will share that info



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post #11 of 117 Old 06-11-2008, 06:16 PM
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Quote:


See snippet from Dan's Easy button end table thread below (it's in the first post of the thread linked to in Dan's signature):

The Behringer amp does not have any filters in it (most pro amps dont have SFF). I suspect Dan is saying he needs to build a filter to protect his drivers. In which a $100 eQ.2 from elemental Designs does that.

Here is the EP2500 measurements....it has no filters and there is no real drop in dB down to 10hz.

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post #12 of 117 Old 06-11-2008, 06:34 PM
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19Ov.2 D2 coils in series, in all its glory


And parallel:


The EP2500 has 30Hz or 50Hz selectable filters, the idea is to modify one to suit. But I don't have an EP2500, I was planning to get one after the Maelstorm-X, but after the parameters came out and looking at a $399 price with shipping I'm OK with what i've got. I'm way happier with $700 in my wallet and keeping what i've got.

And ED still has all my money, they got there drivers back like a month ago. No contact from them at all, that sucks

Regards,
Dan
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post #13 of 117 Old 06-11-2008, 06:38 PM
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Quote:


The EP2500 has 30Hz or 50Hz selectable filters, the idea is to modify one to suit. But I don't have an EP2500, I was planning to get one after the Maelstorm-X, but after the parameters came out and looking at a $399 price with shipping I'm OK with what i've got. I'm way happier with $700 in my wallet and keeping what i've got.

Yes, sorry for the confusion. There are selected filters (same with the QSCs) and you want to mod one of them to 10Hz (I remember now).

I was reading it thinking people thought the EP2500 had an internal hard wired SFF. Sorry about that.

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post #14 of 117 Old 06-11-2008, 08:45 PM - Thread Starter
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Well I've been playing with Unibox and think I've found what I'm going to try to do. It looks like a 500L ported box tuned to 15 Hz with a 8" port and heavy fill graphs quite nicely. Giving each driver 375W I shouldn't have any trouble with XMax until around 15Hz, also chuffing should be under control until that point.

So any clues on what would need to be done to the EP2500 to mod one of the filters to 15Hz?
LL
LL
LL
LL


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post #15 of 117 Old 06-11-2008, 10:09 PM
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Heavy fill in 500 liters is something like a 30 gallon garbage bag$

All that to go with a 15Hz tune

The woofer might live, at the power level you have in mind.

Regards,
Dan
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post #16 of 117 Old 06-12-2008, 05:33 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NEO Dan View Post

Heavy fill in 500 liters is something like a 30 gallon garbage bag$

All that to go with a 15Hz tune

The woofer might live, at the power level you have in mind.

Would that be too much fill? I was thinking I'd just use the pillow fill like you did in the easy button thread.

I suppose if I'm going to do it I should try to get to a 10Hz tune, I'm definitely open to suggestions on this - this will be my first DIY sub build. The only restriction I have is that it needs to fit in a corner that is 40" wide x 27" deep x 60" tall - those are the max dimensions though that would put me right up against the wall. For the 500L I was thinking I'd build something 40X40X20 and try it in the corner, I also considered converting it into a coffee table if the corner didn't work out.

About the power, the EP2500 is too much amp for what I need but I couldn't get anything that would push the 600 WPC I wanted for even the same price, everything I found was used, a bit more money, and in crap condition so I just went with the EP2500 anyway. Could I use the EP2500 and just keep the gain knob at about 75% and model in Unibox for 300W? What would 300W look like on the gain knob of the EP2500 anyway? Also, how would one verify I'm not exceeding that 300W?


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Quote:


So any clues on what would need to be done to the EP2500 to mod one of the filters to 15Hz

I suspect you just replace the capacitor inside...I dont really know but that is normally how Filters are handled.

Its not a bad idea actually, Im surprise there is not a "Mod" thread on this similar to the fan mod threads.

Other then that just buy the eD eQ.2 for $100, it has a variable SFF setting and it has two parametric EQ bands to help correct sub freq issues....its a great little device for its price!!

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post #18 of 117 Old 06-12-2008, 02:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NEO Dan View Post

19Ov.2 D2 coils in series, in all its glory


And parallel:



And ED still has all my money, they got there drivers back like a month ago. No contact from them at all, that sucks


Ummmm wow. Sealed box went from under 2.9 ft(ED specs) to 10.5ft (measured) Vented changed radically too and the LE 5.819mh I'm not a big LE hater but my big ass split coil XXX's only had 3.88mh! I can see why you were dismayed. It's still decent for the price, but it's not the small box woofer it is thought to be.


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post #19 of 117 Old 06-12-2008, 05:59 PM
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You would need an EP series schematic and an amp, I don't have an amp

Regards,
Dan
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post #20 of 117 Old 06-12-2008, 06:04 PM
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I think you made the right decision...I had a single 13kv2 and it put out some serious deep bass. 4 of them will scare the crap out of you

Tim
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post #21 of 117 Old 06-12-2008, 06:11 PM - Thread Starter
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I've been modeling all day and just realized I don't really know what to look for. I poked around trying different tunings (since Dan eeked at my 15Hz box :P ) and found that a 300L box tuned to 12Hz with a 6" port looks pretty good and should be safe for the driver with minimal chuffing down to 10Hz, but then I got looking and noticed the FR doesn't look much better than just putting it into a sealed box... How much do you guys general calculate in for room reinforcement down low anyways?


At any rate, I give... what would you guys do with 4 of these and an EP2500?


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post #22 of 117 Old 06-12-2008, 06:25 PM
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I would put each one in a ~2 ft^3 sealed box, two in each front corner, and LT/EQ them. Four 12"s with 16mm Xmax is nothing to laugh at.
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post #23 of 117 Old 06-12-2008, 07:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NEO Dan View Post

You would need an EP series schematic and an amp, I don't have an amp

Is that valid for the EP2500 though? Because I've got one I'm not using right now and could try to tinker with it, though it has been a while since I've had an electronics class.

YID DIY
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post #24 of 117 Old 06-12-2008, 07:29 PM
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I was told it is THE schematic, but without an amp in front of me IDK fro sure

Regards,
Dan
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post #25 of 117 Old 06-12-2008, 08:12 PM
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Wow, I think I need a refresher course. I can't narrow down where the 50 and 30hz HP is at for each channel.

YID DIY
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post #26 of 117 Old 06-30-2008, 07:04 PM - Thread Starter
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I finally decided on the EP2500 with 4 13Kv.2. Total shipped cost of amp+drivers = $500! I decided to try sealed first and see how I like it - each in a 16"x16"x17.5" box (made the cuts easy for Home Depot).

I (finally) got a chance to get to it and start building this weekend (wife and kids were out of town) and found that my woodworking skills could use some work. To start things off I got Home Depot to cut all of the wood for me as I don't have the tools to do so myself. I had them cut one sheet into all 16x16 squares and the second sheet half 16x16 and half 16x14.5. After the guy finished cutting them (it took about 45 minutes to cut it all up) he mentioned that a couple may be off 1/8" or so but most should be right on... yeah right! I don't think a single one of those "squares" were square but I didn't think of that when I started building the first box so the first box looks pretty terrible. For the second, third, and fourth boxes I made sure to make sure all of the pieces I was using were at least the same size before starting drilling/gluing. This helped quite a bit, each box turned out better than the one before it. This was also the case with putting the roundover on the edges (it wasn't a good idea to start on the front baffle of the first box...). All in all they turned out OK.

I read several places not to do a "dry run" test of the subwoofer before it is completely finished but I just couldn't help it, today I installed all the drivers and got a chance to play around with them for a bit in the living room. First impressions are great! I'm replacing an SVS PB12-ISD/2 and the new sub walks all over the old (as it should). I'm getting significantly more output with significantly less distortion for very close to the same price ($100 more than I'm selling the SVS for). I haven't done an official max SPL test but just messing around I did measure a very respectable 115 dB just using the pink noise off my Onkyo 805.

They're not much to look at for now (I still have to smooth them out with wood filler and paint them up with truck bedliner) but here's a pic of them next to the SVS.
LL


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post #27 of 117 Old 07-01-2008, 07:16 PM - Thread Starter
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I got a chance to do some in-room measurements. I don't think this is quite max output but it's definitely as far as I'll be pushing it. These are from my listening position ~10ft from the subs:

Hz dB
10 102
11 101
12 101
13 100
14 102
15 104
16 103
17 102
18 102
19 103
20 102
25 106
30 107
35 110
40 --the test dvd always crashes trying to play 40Hz (maybe that's the resonant frequency of the laser in the DVD player )
45 120
50 116
55 109
60 109
65 110
70 112
75 113
80 112


Needless to say I am VERY happy with the results! Looking at how it modeled (down ~30dB at 10Hz) I wasn't sure what I was going to end up with (part of why I wanted to try them out before doing the finish work). These results FAR exceeded my expectations of what kind of output I'd see down to 10Hz!

My BFD and sound card should be delivered tomorrow but looking at this I may try re-running Audyssey with the new sub and see if that does anything for the big spike at 45Hz. If so I may have a BFD up for sale...

My SVS would do a max of 107 dB in my room if I just pushed for max output without caring about distortion. The values for the new subs above are without noticeable distortion (at least not compared to the SVS). I'll post more graphs once I get REW working with the new sound card.


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post #28 of 117 Old 07-01-2008, 09:14 PM
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So you are pushing ~400w RMS to each driver?
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post #29 of 117 Old 07-01-2008, 10:06 PM
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Looks like you have some pretty nice room gain down low.

YID DIY
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post #30 of 117 Old 07-02-2008, 05:06 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E-A-G-L-E-S View Post

So you are pushing ~400w RMS to each driver?

Yeah, 375W actually. The QTC should be pretty close to .707 so I *shouldn't* be able to exceed XMAX - don't want to find out the hard way though


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