How would i do this? JL 10w7 - AVS Forum
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Old 08-14-2008, 05:17 PM - Thread Starter
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i want to buy 1 10 inch JL w7

and

use it for my home theatre

i want to use 4 ohm for it

whatever the hell that means, and ill probably put it in a box and such but how do i do the rest... i would preferably rather have an amp i can screw into the box

JL makes the best subs i have ever heard in my life and im not paying 2k for a home sub from them

the thread hijacker
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Old 08-14-2008, 06:30 PM
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If you do not have the driver already you can do much better with a cheaper speaker. Do not get me wrong they make a great speaker I have a 12w7 for my theater. Sounds awesome but I got the driver dirt cheap and bought a big powerful amp 2500watts cheap. But for what they want for the driver and the power they require you can do alot better with another speaker. My plan was to build 2 more but for half the cost in parts and amps I almost doubled the output and got a better sound. Look at some of the builds around here and post your budget, goals and needs. you will get alot of different answers and some good help.

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Old 08-14-2008, 07:48 PM
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Quote:


JL makes the best subs i have ever heard in my life and im not paying 2k for a home sub from them


Lots of great drivers to choose from, JL has good drivers but they are not alone in that category.

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Old 08-14-2008, 07:49 PM
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We talked in your AVR thread and I know your room is only 13x13 so you do not need a monster sub.

How big can your sub box? WAF stuff

It is not "open-minded" to reject knowledge - Bob Lee
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Old 08-14-2008, 07:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Bruiser View Post

i want to buy 1 10 inch JL w7

and

use it for my home theatre

i want to use 4 ohm for it

whatever the hell that means, and ill probably put it in a box and such but how do i do the rest... i would preferably rather have an amp i can screw into the box

JL makes the best subs i have ever heard in my life and im not paying 2k for a home sub from them


JL aside, i think 10" subwoofers are a debauchery to low frequency reproduction. they are just poor at displacement which makes the poor choices for low frequency reproduction, distortion, spl or
sound quality - they are bad at all 3 for bass relativity speaking. They are good when you have a size constraint, that's about it.


i would look at at least 12" ideally 15 or 18" if you are wise Soon, we will see larger than 18" subwoofers will become affordable and more common.

data-bass.com
@databass_audio
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Old 08-14-2008, 07:59 PM
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Through previous conversation, I have posted that 10" will not get him low extension.

The OP has a WAF issue though so it can not be a monster sub and the room is 13x13.

It is not "open-minded" to reject knowledge - Bob Lee
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Old 08-14-2008, 08:40 PM
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Get a 12w7, slap it in a 1 ft^3 stuffed sealed box and throw one million watts at it.

*giggles at car audio*
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Old 08-14-2008, 08:58 PM
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I put my 15" in a 22"x24"x24" box, and the room is only 9'x9', so that is no excuse not to use a big driver. It's sure ain't pretty though... Nobody can argue in favor for an unfished MDF box.
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Old 08-14-2008, 09:15 PM
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I can and have. ^

Didn't actually win that argument though. =D
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Old 08-14-2008, 10:43 PM
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Quote:


Nobody can argue in favor for an unfished MDF box.

I "Hide" my two monster 11 cuft boxes

It is not "open-minded" to reject knowledge - Bob Lee
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Old 08-15-2008, 07:37 AM
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If small is the name of game, why not get an ED13Av.2 and stick it in a 1.25 cubic foot box, its as small as any you could hope for with the 10W7 and power it with one of the LT1300 and an ed EQ, the whole project should run you under 1k and you will have some excellent bass in a very small form factor, similar in output to a 12W7 but similar in size to a 10W7.
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Old 08-15-2008, 07:42 AM
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No, get a Fi Q12 or AA Havoc 12.

"Vintage" is good for wine, not for A/V equipment.

-Dan D.
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Old 08-15-2008, 08:44 AM
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MMk, I don't see anything wrong with either, but the 13Av.2 seems to be a bit more beastly of a driver weighing 60lbs with the large surround, it seemed to be more in the class of the JL audio's. I haven't tested either, just going off of my gut.
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Old 08-15-2008, 09:28 AM
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If you already bought the 10W7, might as well use it. If not, check out the CSS SDX-15 in a 3.25-3.75ft sealed enclosure and the eD LT-1300 plate amp. Small'ish and powerful.

YID DIY
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Old 08-15-2008, 09:42 AM
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AA Havoc has higher Xmax, is from a company that does not blatently lie about specs or steal designs, does not have a surround that takes up more space than the cone, can be used sealed in .5cuft, and has a higher sensitivity. It is definitely the better driver, even when you don't include the companies making them in the comparison.

The Av is not a BAD driver when you look at just that, but, well, see my sig. if you care. It slightly surprises me how many people seem to not care. But that's not THE reason I recommended other options. The Av should be priced around $200-225, not around $300.

"Vintage" is good for wine, not for A/V equipment.

-Dan D.
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Old 08-15-2008, 01:25 PM
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I do not share that opinion at all, I see nothing else in the market that does what the 13AV.2 does in the $200-$225 price range. You are in the league of the dayton titanic 12, IXL 12.2.2 ect, I don't even know where to buy the AA Havoc 12 anymore since SSA stopped carrying them. What's the problem of them putting a larger surround on if they make the basket larger? The cone is still larger than most 12" cones, it competes VERY well against them. I like the looks of the 13AV.2 subwoofer, very solid construction, dual 10" spiders, extremely strong cone, powerful motor, 5" p-p xmech, I could go on, we are talking about near TC 2000 level of build quality, better than RL-p12, Havoc12, Q12 ect. It is possible that those other companies have better designed motors, but the suspension, soft parts, and basket/motor certainly look to be on another tier of performance. I certainly see absolutely no reason to bash it as you have done, the truth is pretty much EVERY manufacturer smudges specs, I don't want to turn this into a bashing thread. I have ordered SEVERAL times from ed and dealt with the customer support many times before and I have always been extremely pleased with the level of service they have provided. If I have been treated well, I am not going to dissuade others from buying them because of the cyber truama of their early years.

If you want to get into specs, the added 1.25mm of the Havoc is nothing compared to the added 70cm^2 of cone are that the 13av.2 has, ok so even IF ed smudged their specs, which I'll admit they may have, I have seen the sub in action though and I can say with certainty that is fantastic in every way that I personally value in a subwoofer. It has very quiet operation, almost no mechanical noise, less than the subs I have used from Ficar, exodus audio, TC sounds and partsexpress. I am not going to pick favorites here because I haven't even heard the havoc drivers and the Q12 is a good option for anyone, but after my experience with the 13AV.2 I will gladly recommend the sub to anyone who wants a lethal sub in a small box. I would heartily match the sub against the JL audio 12W7, I don't see a clear winner between the two.


The ED also comes with a 5 year warranty
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Old 08-15-2008, 01:41 PM
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I would just slap an SDX15 in a 20" cube and throw the biggest plate amp you can afford on it.

If you want to stick with JL, skip the 10W7 and get a 13W6 for a few extra dollars on Ebay.
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Old 03-04-2013, 03:37 PM
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OK, so I know this is a SUPER old thread......but I have been trying to figure out how to use my JL 10w7 as my home theater sub and have been drawing blanks. I know the w7 has a single 1.5 ohm voice coil, but does that mean I have to find a home amplifier that is rated for constant 1.5 ohm use? What kind of amplifier are you using to power your 12w7 for your home theater? Do you have any recommendations on what amplifier would be good for me and my 10w7? My setup is as follows:

Integra DTR-7.8 receiver
Def Tech BP10B fronts
Def Tech ProCenter 2000 center
Def Tech BPX surrounds
Def Tech ProMonitor 100 surround backs

I don't need my sub to be SUPER loud.....just looking to make use of my 10w7 thats just been sitting around biggrin.gif

Thanks in advance for any help ANYONE can offer!!!
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Old 03-05-2013, 01:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 00cbirdw View Post

I know the w7 has a single 1.5 ohm voice coil

Sorry, don't know why I got mixed up (probably because I USED to have 2 of the 10w7's running @ 1.5 ohm)......they're actually single 3 ohm voice coils. I dug a little deeper and found some people recommending the Behringer Europower EP4000......any opinions on this amp? Thanks biggrin.gif
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Old 03-05-2013, 08:08 PM
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What are you planning on using this sub for? The EP4000 looks like it should work great for this sub as it would give it about 1000 watts of power while still having another channel left. If your going ported (which you should if you plan on putting this in your house) you're going to need a HPF (something like a MiniDSP) just below tuning to keep the cone in check so that's another additional expense.

I just got done building ported boxes for two of these subs and will have a build thread up in the next couple of days. To get the best output from these subs you're going to have to put them in large boxes. Each box that I built was 2'x2'x2' with a 4"x10"x48" slot port to tune it ~21.12Hz. After bracing, port, sub, etc... the available space came to about 4.52 cubic feet. In this box you will get some very good output for a 10" sub. Here's the WinISD graph for reference:



That graph isn't lying... You will get solid output to about 18Hz but below that it'll nosedive off a cliff. I live on a second floor condo (apartment) and with two of them I can literally feel the floor move up and down from the bass. It's very solid and clean sounding. It sounds nothing like what I was expecting it to sound like as I'm used to subs in a car.
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Old 03-06-2013, 11:43 AM
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Thanks for the input! I'll just be using this for my home theater sub. It's not REALLY a home theater.....it's just my everyday tv/movie/gaming setup in my living room. Right now I have a downfiring slot ported box built to JL's specs:

PORTED ENcLOSURE:
Recommended Net Volume:1.5 cu. ft. (42.5 ltrs.)
Recommended Port Tuning:32 Hz
Port Type:“Slot” ports are recommended. See information above.
The port recommendations listed above are derived through actual
tests and measurements (not computer simulations).
front Baffle Thickness: 1in. (25 mm)
Wall Thickness:0.75 in. (19 mm)

Although I built the box to these specs, I think it ended up being a little larger with a slightly larger port as well (upsized the volume to account for the woofer/magnet). My slot ended up being about 24" in depth (makes an L inside the box), 2" in width, and about 30" in length......so about 1440in^3 or .83333ft^3 of port volume. I think my INTERNAL volume of my box is around 1.75~2.0ft^3. Not sure what this will end up producing sound wise, but I'm definitely going to try it out before I go through the trouble of building something else cool.gif I was wondering about the EQ situation as far as the EP4000 goes......not sure about hooking a PRO audio amp up to my HT receiver? I was just going to use the LFE out on my receiver to a phono/RCA adapter to hook up the EP4000..........not sure if I would need any type of EQ using this method? I also started looking into purchasing the amp/pre amp units for a Def Tech Supercube I and running it SUPER low power (since they're designed for a 30 ohm speaker!). Check out this thread I found using the same thing:

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1378616/help-me-wire-used-supercube-amp-sections

Anyways, thanks for the feedback I really appreciate it!!!!! biggrin.gif
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Old 03-06-2013, 01:35 PM
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00cbirdw, I wouldn't waste my time or money on that Def Tech plate amp. All you need to connect to the EP4000 is an RCA to XLR cable which can easily be attained. Regarding the EQ, you need it to keep the speaker from overdriving itself below the tuning frequency and that's what the high pass filter does for you hence my recommendation for the MiniDSP so that way you can apply a HPF and EQ room modes. If you're going to use this for movies the HPF is very important as some movies go down to the single digits. For example, in my setup I have a 4th order 19Hz HPF to protect the subs from infrasonic frequencies. I think that you might be able to get away with a bridge INUKE 3000 DSP or run it off of a single INUKE 6000 DSP channel so that way you can add another sub. I've never used the INUKE amps before so hopefully someone can chime in on that as the 10W7 will go a little bit below 4 ohms from 70-100 Hz (in my build) but I don't think that will be an issue as most people crossover at 80Hz. What you have to understand regarding the box specs from JL's website is that what they have listed is for cars. Car interiors are much smaller than a house and music typically doesn't go low so they design their boxes for this. You're changing the game by using it in your house for HT so you have to make the box a lot larger if you want to be happy using it for movies. You also never told us about your room...

-Is it sealed (closed) or open to the rest of the house?
-How big is this room?

Here's a comparison of JL's ported box spec (orange) vs. what I built (pink):



As you can see, the 20Hz is nonexistant in the JL box spec but is very strong in my box (believe me you can feel that 20Hz) and that hump in JL's box isn't very good and would need to come down about 4dB at 42Hz to get it flat.
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Old 03-06-2013, 02:04 PM
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Loud for movie you mean ?

I have a JL audio 13W3V3 in a bandpass, 120 liter closed/39 liter vented,whit 3 vent,s .
That play,s very loud for movie.

But for the punch i have a second 13W3V3 closed 40 liter.


The 3 ohm from the W7 play,s not on many amp,s,PA amp and use 1 channel ?
You can always do a cheap upgrade,whit a channel left smile.gif
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Old 03-06-2013, 02:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Audiophile1178 View Post

-Is it sealed (closed) or open to the rest of the house?
-How big is this room?

The room is ROUGHLY 18'x18'.......and it's quite open. Large opening on left of room (10' wide x 7' tall). I'm sorry if I come off as slow or ignorant, but I am COMPLETELY new to all of this and am basically groping in the dark with this build. Can you give me some recommendations on what I would need (besides the EP4000 amp) to complete this build? i.e. the miniDSP, high pass filter, etc. Thank you so much for your input, I really appreciate the 101 lessons on subwoofers!!! biggrin.gif

So it really looks like I'll have to invest in building a new box.....probably look into building a similar downfiring box (just bigger) that I can convert/turn into a coffee table. cool.gif
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Old 03-06-2013, 03:01 PM
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Audiophile, what size in cubic feet would be IDEAL for this build? I know yours is a little over 4.5 cuft, but if you did it over, would you make it bigger/smaller?
Thanks!
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Old 03-06-2013, 03:22 PM
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"hopefully someone can chime in on that as the 10W7 will go a little bit below 4"

another member just asked the same question. check the dc resistance (re). the 10w7 in winisd that i have is 2.746 ohms. that is within spec for a nominal 4 ohm driver and will work just fine with a nominal 4 ohm amp.
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Old 03-06-2013, 03:24 PM
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also, if check driver excursion though. if going with a medium-large cab tuned medium-low, one channel of 650 watts may be about all the driver can take.

Listen. It's All Good.
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Old 03-06-2013, 05:05 PM
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00cbirdw, from my understanding a square room is the worst room that you can have for a HT but if it's what you've got it's what you got and there's nothing you can do about it. I have a similar room as you and need two 10W7's to get any decent output as since you and I have our rooms open to other rooms your subs have to work harder to pressurize not only the room that it's in but the adjacent rooms to it. My two subs would probably be louder if I could seal off the room but instead it's open to the rest of the condo so I have to deal with what I've got just like you. I would build the box the same way as I thought about it a long time before I settled on this box. You can go bigger (about twice as big 8^3 feet.) to gain a little more on the low end but you're giving up about 2dB from 20Hz and up. Plus, you're getting into lilmike/F20 land and might as well build one of those if you're going to build a box that big. If you want to save money and not have to buy a seperate DSP such as the MiniDSP you can get the Inuke 3000 DSP (it's an amp with a built in DSP) which will put about 620w into your sub with another channel available to use if you want to add another sub later but I personally think that the extra 330w from the EP4000 would be better (as long as you're concious about not overdriving your sub) as you wouldn't need to push the amp but it's an additional cost of buying the extra DSP. Either way you're going to have to do a fan mod on either of them as they're supposed to be loud.

To sum it up:

Box Size: 4.52 cubic feet of available space after port, bracing, sub, etc... displacement (you can make the box any dimensions you want as long as the internal volume is 4.52 cubic ft.)
Port: 4"x10"x48"
Power: ~775w
HPF: 4th order 19Hz


BTW, there are other DSP's by Behringer that other people can fill you in on as I'm not sure what's good for your application.
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Old 03-06-2013, 05:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

also, if check driver excursion though. if going with a medium-large cab tuned medium-low, one channel of 650 watts may be about all the driver can take.

Thanks for the heads up but I built this box to maximize the use of this sub with my crown amp and it's all good.cool.gif



I do have one question about excursion though. I have the Spears & Munsil Blu-ray test disc from my OPPO. When I ran the pcm sub sine sweep I could only get the foam surround to move ~8mm. Is that what I should be measuring to test xmax? The sub has 23mm of xmax and I believe was tested to acutally peak at ~26mm. I had the pots on the crown all the way up, my onkyo processor at +2dB while running 4dB hot on the sub channel. It appears to me that the crown isn't working the JL sub all the way and I feel as if I'm missing out on the subs full potential which is why I tried bridging the crown to put out 2400w at 4 ohms.

BTW, the sub is rated for 750w and each channel of the crown is putting out 775w at 4ohms so it should be a perfect match but it doesn't seem like it's working the sub all the way.
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Old 03-07-2013, 04:04 PM
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So this is a quick sketch I did of the box I MIGHT build......let me know what your program has to say about it if you would be so kind biggrin.gif

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