Twelve 10" NHT Subwoofer Build. - Page 5 - AVS Forum
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post #121 of 274 Old 10-01-2008, 08:24 AM
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Jim,
that's correct & you could secure easily them using a staple gun
I weighed one at 18oz fiber content

Regards,
Dan
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post #122 of 274 Old 10-01-2008, 09:22 AM
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Hey Dan I've got a 10 cu ft sealed test box whipped up and I know you already did some testing with the different amounts of stuffing. I plan on doing some testing myself. How many pillows should I get to be able to go a bit overstuffed? 10?
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post #123 of 274 Old 10-01-2008, 11:59 AM
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I don't know if 10 will actually be enough to drive up FB in a box that big. 10 seems like a decent amount though ~180oz. As long as you have room to put them place without compacting them too much I say it's good.

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post #124 of 274 Old 10-01-2008, 12:09 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NEO Dan View Post

4-6 per box would be more than sufficient.

Wow, that's some serious pillow buying. I'll head there later today and get enough to make people look at me weird!

Thanks.
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post #125 of 274 Old 10-01-2008, 12:32 PM
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You'll have got that covered for sure
Brings back memorys

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post #126 of 274 Old 10-01-2008, 01:51 PM
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10 might not be enough. Damn it! I don't know if I can fit 20 pillows in the shopping cart......I feel for you Eric that's possibly 72 pillows!... let's see if I can calculate the cubic volume of the average Wally World shopping cart....
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post #127 of 274 Old 10-01-2008, 02:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricci View Post

10 might not be enough. Damn it! I don't know if I can fit 20 pillows in the shopping cart......I feel for you Eric that's possibly 72 pillows!... let's see if I can calculate the cubic volume of the average Wally World shopping cart....

LOL, crackulate.... Erich olny needs 2..... dozen
Actually I don't think there's a real need for more than 4 per box, as a dampening type measure, but 6 would be nice.

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post #128 of 274 Old 10-01-2008, 02:42 PM
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Erich,

How far along are you now? Curious what stage you're at and also waiting your impressions!
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post #129 of 274 Old 10-01-2008, 03:41 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erich H View Post

Okay, time to impress.....well sort of. I'd like to get thoughts and ideas for this final design. Box sizes may vary just a bit to get the correct cu/ft.

As a newbie to Sketchup, this took me longer than I would like to admit.





It keeps the area for my center channel clear and I can put teh Behringer amp up there too. Also it doesn't go up too high on the sides to get in the way of my lighting.

Each side will actually be 2 boxes for weight issues. Bottom box of 4 and one side box of 2. Wired as Neo Dan mentioned.

Box depth? Depends on sealed or ported I guess. I can make them maybe 15" deep fro sealed, or go 20" deep for ported.

Could I port the 2 side boxes out the top and then the bottom 4 out the front? Or will I have enough of these to just go sealed and be done with it?

I’d get rid of the that centre channel and get another pair of the left and right and use one for the centre channel, you’ve got everything else matched expect the centre channel and that small centre thou manufactures like call it a centre channel NOT! Matching LCR!!!!!!!!!! The sub bass array system looks great thou I would have individual enclosures and power each sub bass with its own power amplifier with its own crossover, see the other thread. The LCR belong behind the screen and raised off the floor preferable on horizontal base platform.

Otherwise it looks great knock yourself out.

Quote:
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10 might not be enough. Damn it! I don't know if I can fit 20 pillows in the shopping cart......I feel for you Eric that's possibly 72 pillows!... let's see if I can calculate the cubic volume of the average Wally World shopping cart....

wtf you guys talking about pillows, what are we going to have flame war with a pillow fight then.
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post #130 of 274 Old 10-02-2008, 03:44 PM
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What was the shipping like on those 12?
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post #131 of 274 Old 10-02-2008, 08:07 PM - Thread Starter
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I got 2 of the "socks" today. They fit great. I will get some photos tomorrow. I pulled them on and they they look like I glued them to the wood! I have not cut the fabric away from where the sub holes are, so when I tap on the fabric over the empty holes, it sounds like I'm tapping on a drum. Real nice fit because the material has a little stretch to it.

Obviously, these are like real socks with one end open. But one side of the box is always the bottom, so it doesn't matter. Now she did make them long enough to where I can wrap the hidden end up like a present if I want. I'm not so good at that, but you can't see it anyway. But let me tell ya, I went from a MDF finish to covered in less than 5 minutes!


Brandonnash, shipping was around $150 coming from California. But keep in mind, I got 12 subs. Packaging was fine, no issues at all. Quick delivery as well.
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post #132 of 274 Old 10-02-2008, 08:19 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JBLsound4645 View Post

I'd get rid of the that centre channel and get another pair of the left and right and use one for the centre channel, you've got everything else matched expect the centre channel and that small centre thou manufactures like call it a centre channel NOT! Matching LCR!!!!!!!!!! The sub bass array system looks great thou I would have individual enclosures and power each sub bass with its own power amplifier with its own crossover, see the other thread. The LCR belong behind the screen and raised off the floor preferable on horizontal base platform.

Otherwise it looks great knock yourself out.



wtf you guys talking about pillows, what are we going to have flame war with a pillow fight then.



I have a very limited height in my basement. The sub boxes will be touching the ceiling. The one on the right will almost be wedged in.

I have the Polk Rti8's for the front and I believe the center is the CSi3, which is what they say matches. I may upgrade that later. I can't get anymore height without shrinking the screen. What you see in that photo of the boxes and screen actually takes up the entire front wall! As for the seperate amps and crossovers? Ahhh, that would be nice, but keep in mind, I only spent about $250 on these subs not counting shipping. Spending $2700 on amps and crossovers.....well, I just couldn't bring myself to do it.


Now my next home? I'll make sure I have a large room with higher ceilings, or build an addition. Then maybe I can go a bit over board. But I just don't have that option right now.
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post #133 of 274 Old 10-02-2008, 08:45 PM
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Erich,

From the photos of the cabinets, it appears that the woofers are going to sit proud of the front baffle since you have only cut a thru hole. If you mount the woofers this way in the cabinet and then stretch cloth sock over it, you are going to have some problems. The sock will be pressing directly against the surrround of the woofer. This is going to make some bad noises when the woofers move much at all. You either need to countersink the woofers into the front baffle a lot, or add some material onto the front baffle to make the cloth hang in front of the woofer. The easy way is to cut two pieces of MDF about 2" wide by 1.5" thick by the height of your cabinet. Glue these on the front baffle even with the left and right edges. When you pull the sock over, this will make the cloth hang in front of the driver, even under peak maximum excursion. You will probably also have to add 2" x 1.5" strips at the top and bottom to make the cloth lay flat all over the front.

Brandon,

The spreadsheet on the sale site lists the shipping weights for a number of the drivers, including these tens. They ship from Danville 94526. You can go to the UPS website and enter all of the information to find out what shipping will cost. If you ship to a real business address, shipping will be cheaper than to a residence.

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post #134 of 274 Old 10-02-2008, 09:10 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Hidley View Post

Erich,

From the photos of the cabinets, it appears that the woofers are going to sit proud of the front baffle since you have only cut a thru hole. If you mount the woofers this way in the cabinet and then stretch cloth sock over it, you are going to have some problems. The sock will be pressing directly against the surrround of the woofer. This is going to make some bad noises when the woofers move much at all.



Sorry Jack, I might have forgotten to mention it but I will be cutting out the holes in the fabric, then putting the subs in. I've already drilled the holes for the subs. So I am just going to use a razor to cut the fabric circle, then drop in the sub and screw it down. I actually want the subs to be seen....nothing will be in front of them. I might do a grill later, but I like the idea of 12 subs staring out at me.


Okay, so I just went down and tried getting some photos. Here we go:


2 boxes. You're looking at the top without the fabric cut for the subs. That small side is actually the side with the seam.




Now, I turned on the flash to try and make the seam show up a bit. But standing next to this normally, you simply can't see it. This is also before I try to blend it in. So I'm pretty pleased.






By the way, that's a pretty bright camera flash. Notice that I'm not getting any glare off the fabric! They should do pretty good next to the screen.
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post #135 of 274 Old 10-04-2008, 07:27 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erich H View Post

I have a very limited height in my basement. The sub boxes will be touching the ceiling. The one on the right will almost be wedged in.

I have the Polk Rti8's for the front and I believe the center is the CSi3, which is what they say matches. I may upgrade that later. I can't get anymore height without shrinking the screen. What you see in that photo of the boxes and screen actually takes up the entire front wall! As for the seperate amps and crossovers? Ahhh, that would be nice, but keep in mind, I only spent about $250 on these subs not counting shipping. Spending $2700 on amps and crossovers.....well, I just couldn't bring myself to do it.


Now my next home? I'll make sure I have a large room with higher ceilings, or build an addition. Then maybe I can go a bit over board. But I just don't have that option right now.


Rubbish mate there is no such thing as overboard, overboard is just a bs made up word. You’re just not thinking enough, you’ve got an excellent DIY sub their, that’s unquestionable.

You got plenty of room my room floor to ceiling is only 7 feet 3 inches and that’s not a lot to play with and yet I’ve figured out ways even when I get around to buying a cheap LCD video projector it will still fit the room with LCR up and behind the screen and my room is only 15 feet length, now that is tiny.

I’ll flip the main sub up vertical as there will be horizontal base platform up front soon!!!! And that will leave me with a few feet between the L Lex C Rex R fronts a few feet and I’m confident it will work.


Take down the screen now and build a base platform so that the LCR towers thou good ole high quality bookshelf type will do great I mean some models today can give a good modest low end down to 50 or 40Hz and then leave the rest with DCX2496 working LCR sub bass and surrounds and matching amplifiers galore.

That tiny centre against the LR you’d be surprised what a cinema PA speaker can do on the centre, especially in the home. You wouldn’t need those DIY subs just get cinema PA o different than the DIY subs I mean the size of them standing up vertically LOL.

I’d set a really low crossover filter up with DCX2496 because I don’t know seems like they may draw attention or maybe not maybe the low end will sound like the once “CIC UCI High Wycombe THX cinema” now that was voted best 5th THX screen in the world so I heard.

What kind of low end are you expecting or don’t you know yet, is there any films that you’ve seen a THX cinema that gave you the inspiration to build this large DIY sub?

Oh, what about the Floyd sub bass placement? why not a sub up front and one at the back and one for each side of the room laying horizontally you don’t really want to see them only hear and feel them or feel them and hear them which ever.
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post #136 of 274 Old 10-04-2008, 07:57 AM
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Erich, before you cut the holes through the fabric for the subs, hold the material in place with some push pins or the "stretch" will be off, and may be apparent when you view them from your seated positions. Mounting the subs atop the fabric will keep everything aligned, but I wonder if that minor thickness will create a "seal failure" of the enclosure? A thin smear of clear silicone against the MDF at the cutouts may help to hold the fabric in place, and then also provide enough resilience to give a better seal. Those "socks" look great, and yes, it really does work as you planned, without giving any reflections.
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post #137 of 274 Old 10-04-2008, 09:44 AM
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Erich,
nice work.
It's not hard to do but if you cut all the way to the edger of the driver cutouts you may run into problems. So here is a visual guide to a method I've used in the past:


Stop cutting ~1/2" before the cutout, pull down the tabs of fabric and staple them in place. A little gluing(spray glue) down of the fabric to the baffle before you start this process can alleviate shifting and generally produces perfect results.

Regards,
Dan
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post #138 of 274 Old 10-04-2008, 03:59 PM - Thread Starter
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Well, you guys will be pleased to know that the fabric cutting went easier than I figured.

I put some weight around the hole where the cut out was going to be (pins would have been a good idea Jim).

Then I made cuts like NeoDan posted. But I only made 3-4 lines making it look like a pie cut into 6 or so pieces. Then I lightly pulled each one and cut it about 1/2" from the edge.

When I let off, the fabric was almost exactly 1/4" smaller than the cutout all the way around. I simply sat the sub in which pushed down the fabric and made the fit absolutely perfect. The subs don't even shift 1/16" in either direction. Perfect.

I once put subs on a carpet enclosure and a couple years later when I removed them, the carpet under the rim of the sub was smashed almost as smooth as glass. So I figured I wouldn't need to worry about any other gasket material. And keep in mind, these subs do have a very thin layer of foam gasket material around them already.





Anyway, I got 2 of them 100% done, including those darn pillows stuffed inside!


Here we go with a close up. There's that seam again.....not even noticable.





Here they are in place. I like how I won't need a screen border! My Polks look tiny!!!!






And for all those with a bit of imagination, here's how the vertical ones will look once done. I should be getting the socks tomorrow if she has time.


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post #139 of 274 Old 10-04-2008, 04:13 PM - Thread Starter
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Just a quick note: No glue was used on the covers at all. I simply pulled and tugged them over the box, then just folded the open end up like I was wrapping a gift box, and tacked it in with a few staples. I'm not the best at gift wrapping, but that one side will never be seen anyway.

So staples were only used on that one hidden side. Glue could have been used instead I suppose. There was no need for anything else to hold the fabric in place. It really worked good.


One precaution I took was to place the covered boxes onto large plastic bags to slide them into place. That way, I didn't have to worry about the fleece material being moved as I pushed it on the carpet. The plastic made them slide really easy of course. And I just pulled the plastic out once done.


No joke, once the socks are made, it probably takes 5 minutes or so to go from unfinished MDF to fully finished box. Can't beat that.
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post #140 of 274 Old 10-05-2008, 08:21 AM - Thread Starter
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I have a sub/amp/excursion question that I need to get out of the way before I get these all done.

I've always been very conservative when running subs and always keep them WAY under what I think they can probably do.


So I need to ask, is there anyway I can overdrive these 10's with the Behringer and actually do damage? Figuring that they most each will see is 200 watts each in sealed boxes.

I know this sounds stupid, but I used to do this on past subs to get a feel for what they can do. When I hear some serious bass, I rewind, and go watch to see how much excursion they are going though, then back off the bass a bit if I 'thought' they were moving too much. (very scientific huh???) I had no idea is they were even close to being overdriven, but I probably only get 50% out of my past subs because I worry too much.

How in the world can you tell?
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post #141 of 274 Old 10-05-2008, 11:55 AM
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I bet you'll give up before they do

Now back to work(cracks the whip)

Pictures, REW (cracks whip again)

Regards,
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post #142 of 274 Old 10-05-2008, 01:08 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NEO Dan View Post

I bet you'll give up before they do

Now back to work(cracks the whip)

Pictures, REW (cracks whip again)

Yeh yeh yeh, back to work. The problem is that the other 2 socks won't be done until tomorrow. So I can't do anything except worry about over excursion!
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post #143 of 274 Old 10-07-2008, 03:41 PM
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Erich,
how's the Bassment?
don't leave us hanging man

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post #144 of 274 Old 10-07-2008, 04:19 PM - Thread Starter
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Ahhhhhhh, this is starting to get on my nerves now! She still didn't have time to finish them up. I'm really hoping for tomorrow. I did give her some what of a deadline and told her I was having a party by this weekend. I'm not having a party though.

I guess I can't complain, I met the lady at the fabric store and she offered to do them for free. Well, I'll pay her something, but still.



I'm ready to hide all these pillows that I have laying around and crack some plaster upstairs!


AHHHHHHHH!!!


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post #145 of 274 Old 10-08-2008, 07:52 AM
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I meant to ask when you started this project what was the ultimate goal? Lots of output, deep output, accuracy? Just curious what one can expect from 12 subwoofers in sealed enclosures

Also curious to see how this all works out for you and whether or not the room has enough acoustical treatments as is to stop any unwanted resonances.
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post #146 of 274 Old 10-08-2008, 07:56 AM
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Quote:
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...Also curious to see how this all works out for you....

I think we're all curious about this now!!!
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post #147 of 274 Old 10-08-2008, 11:53 AM - Thread Starter
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I was mostly hoping for accuracy and extra headroom for anything from maybe 25hz and up.

I do have a decent amount of room treatments, but I will be doing some more eventually.


The lady got one more cover done. Hoping for the other one tomorrow. She said she's helping her son move. So it's just a waiting game now. I probably should have just made them myself. They may not have looked as nice, but I would have been done.
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post #148 of 274 Old 10-09-2008, 12:46 PM
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Patience...the work is free!
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post #149 of 274 Old 10-09-2008, 04:34 PM - Thread Starter
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Okay, I went and picked up the last 2 covers this evening. So these will be done soon. Maybe tonight!

Let the box pillow stuffing begin!!!

I'm not sure I can lift these 2 finished boxes into place by myself though. We'll see. They aren't real heavy, probably around 100 pounds or so each. But they are a bit awkward.
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post #150 of 274 Old 10-10-2008, 03:04 PM
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The suspense is killing me. Anyone close to him to help finish them off faster

"Half the world is looking for Jesus, and the other half is looking for more bass..."
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