Line Array and Column Speaker - AVS Forum
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Old 09-09-2008, 01:18 PM - Thread Starter
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hi all

i ask again, today i see the pics about Line Array and Column Speaker. sorry my friends i don't understand. now i want to know that how these are difference of its. are these as the same?

thanks in ADVANCE
somo


don't want u help me too much.
but want u help me a long time.
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Old 09-09-2008, 08:00 PM
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what speakers are you referring to?
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Old 09-10-2008, 05:00 PM - Thread Starter
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armystud0911 i see the two pics. two pics look like as the same. why they call column and Line array speakers. i don't understand.
LL
LL
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Old 09-11-2008, 08:07 AM - Thread Starter
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more than 100000 peoples on this broad but only has 5-10 persons who help. i don't understand about the people on here.
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Old 09-11-2008, 08:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by somo View Post

more than 100000 peoples on this broad but only has 5-10 persons who help. i don't understand about the people on here.

Here here. There are a lot of readers not so many contributers.

"There is no greater mistake than the hasty conclusion that opinions are worthless because they are badly argued."
-- Thomas H. Huxley
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Old 09-11-2008, 08:52 AM - Thread Starter
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jimstewart i still waiting until see someone who help me. thanks
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Old 09-11-2008, 09:34 AM
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The majority of the speaker building discussions on this forum relate to subwoofers. If you want to get more answers, I would suggest one of the more active speaker (not subwoofer) building forums such as over at Parts Express, DIY Audio HTGuide etc.

At a high level, one main goal of a line array (for home use) is to allow the user to essentially be in the near field of the speaker, even at normal listening distances. Also by leveraging the ceiling and floor boundaries by having a line which goes almost from floor to ceiling, you get the perceived image of a much taller line. Another benefits of is greater output and lower distortion since multiple drivers are generating the output, not just one or two.

In your pictures the one picture is just two speakers stacked on top of each other. This will certainly give you higher output but with multiple woofers and tweeters spaced far apart, lobing and comb filtering will be prevalent. If you are sitting far enough away, for example at a concert this would be OK. For the home environment this wouldn't work as well as a properly executed line array with power tapering etc or a traditional speaker.

Regards,

Dennis
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Old 09-11-2008, 09:40 AM
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That second speaker you posted isn't exactly a line array due to the fact it only has one tweeter.

Line Arrays: Typically a very tall speaker with a line of midranges and a line of tweeters. There are many things going on with line array's but one of the main points is a line of speakers helps keeps the listener(s) in the near field vs. the far field of a typical speaker.

Point source speakers (like with that single tweeter) drops 6db each time you double the distance away from the speaker; for example, 1M to 2M to 4M.

Line array speakers (like with that line of midranges) drops 3db each time the distance is doubled.

Here's a good line array.


Mixing point source with line array's messes up the sound at different distances. For example, the farther you move away, the quieter that 2nd picture's tweeter will sound in comparison to the midranges because that tweeters volume will be dropping by 6db/doubling distance.

Column speaker: I'd have to look up the definition, but I would classify that 2nd speaker as a column speaker since it's in a column and isn't a true line array. Your first picture, is likely woofers/midbasses and would be closer to a line array than that 2nd speaker.

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Old 09-11-2008, 11:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by somo View Post

more than 100000 peoples on this broad but only has 5-10 persons who help.:

A lot of people don't like the Broad so no one helps. That's a lot of people for one broad.
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Old 09-11-2008, 12:30 PM
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Nuff said.
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Old 09-11-2008, 01:19 PM
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There are a hundreds of thousands of people on AVS forum, but there aren't many who actively contribute to the DIY speakers and subs section, maybe a hundred, the number of those who are interested in line arrays, maybe 10, the number of those who have checked this thread in the past few days, very few. Add the fact that your first post was (at least in my opinion) poorly phrased and fairly incomplete and you are even less likely to get help.

A column speaker such as the one you referenced is typically a point source speaker that happens to have its drivers arranged vertically, a true line array has all of its drivers (tweeters, mids and woofers) lined up against eachother. Looneybomber touched on one of the many benefits of line arrays, there can also be some big disadvantages as well, depending on your needs/tastes. Let's say you take a typical bookshelf speaker, a tweeter and 6" woofer, well, turn that into a line array and you have 12 tweeters and woofers and distortion is lowered drastically on the whole, also when you start to push that array, it will deliver incredible dynamics. Furthermore, I have found that sweet spot of line arrays to be wider than most speakers, more like a sweet area. Personally, I like to move around sometimes when I listen to music, I don't just sit in a chair staring into space, as such, the wider sweet spot is perfect for me. I also like the larger soundstage, most of the music I listen to has a naturally large soundstage and line arrays really deliver this well.

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Old 09-11-2008, 01:35 PM
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Armystud0911, if you have a sub array like your photo, how bad would it be to have smaller tower mains "in the line of fire" to the subs? Maybe 2' away, but pretty close to being in front of them? Would that cause any issues at all? What if the mains were rear ported?

Thanks.
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Old 09-11-2008, 01:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by armystud0911 View Post



HOLY SH*T........No compromises there. Those are gorgeous.

"There is no greater mistake than the hasty conclusion that opinions are worthless because they are badly argued."
-- Thomas H. Huxley
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Old 09-11-2008, 02:19 PM
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Hey Army, I knew you were wanting to make some line array's. Did you ever get them built? Or should I ask if you got your drivers picked out?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimstewart View Post

HOLY SH*T........No compromises there. Those are gorgeous.

Yeah no kidding. Large, gently curved baffles FTW!

YID DIY
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Old 09-11-2008, 02:57 PM
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Those are pretty sweet if you go back 28 years.

I still like the cabinet design, you can use it today, but
the driver choice is turd by today's standards.



The storm was gone, but dark clouds still hung around
The perfect setting for things to come......

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Old 09-11-2008, 03:19 PM
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Originally Posted by thylantyr View Post

Those are pretty sweet if you go back 28 years.

I still like the cabinet design, you can use it today, but
the driver choice is turd by today's standards.

Boo. I'm sure they still sound good and they did an excellent job with the line array cabinet. It's not often you see wide, curved front baffles...heck even if I built some, I wouldn't do that.

YID DIY
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Old 09-11-2008, 04:34 PM
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My bad. Here is a better view of the cabinet. lol







Nice piece of wood.

I think they would sound good today if the reference is store
bought speakers.


http://www.infinity-forum.de/irs.html


What looks funny to you in those two pics?


/hehehehe



The storm was gone, but dark clouds still hung around
The perfect setting for things to come......

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Old 09-11-2008, 06:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Satansfx View Post



Nuff said.

haha, we have all had that moment sadly....

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Old 09-11-2008, 07:02 PM - Thread Starter
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oh...very big software...oh i say mistake because i see these big speaker. these are very old speakers. i would not believe that my friends help a lot. okay i begin to understand that u tell me. A long time that i don't know but now i begin to know. sorry i never listen these speakers before. i think,these are very big sound. okay thanks a lot for everyone who helps me
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Old 09-11-2008, 11:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shinobiwan View Post

Dipole too. Looks like the rear only has half as many tweeters as the front ie. alternate spacing. They cheaped out.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5P6UU6m3cqk




The storm was gone, but dark clouds still hung around
The perfect setting for things to come......

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Old 09-12-2008, 12:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erich H View Post

Armystud0911, if you have a sub array like your photo, how bad would it be to have smaller tower mains "in the line of fire" to the subs? Maybe 2' away, but pretty close to being in front of them? Would that cause any issues at all? What if the mains were rear ported?

Thanks.

Those subs are crossed over at 70Hz, there is no reason why you can't have them behind your mains as these frequencies are non directional. The subs are basically a column and the mids/tweeters are a line array.
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Old 09-12-2008, 07:40 AM
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Kyle,

I think you're the only person who got that.... or maybe some others did and just didn't comment on it..
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Old 09-12-2008, 07:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by armystud0911 View Post

the number of those who are interested in line arrays, maybe 10, the number of those who have checked this thread in the past few days, very few.

lol I think im one of the 10, but im too poor to "implement" what I want to do yet.
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Old 09-12-2008, 09:49 AM
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Kyle,

I think you're the only person who got that.... or maybe some others did and just didn't comment on it..

Simply no comment.
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Old 09-12-2008, 10:33 AM
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The Infinity Reference are still some of the best speakers...after all these years.Quality line arrays age well. These were ~50K back then (full retail).

And shows you can have an array of bass drivers,contrary to some who claim subs should not be stacked to form towers. I know for a fact identical (or very close) subs can be stacked and sound great(from floor to celling).

Ask yourself mortal , do you have as much displacement as me ? The answer is no unless you have a Windmere fan sub.
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Old 09-12-2008, 11:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KyleLee View Post

haha, we have all had that moment sadly....

Yes...Thankfully I was/am usually heavily inebriated in that situation.

Satansfx,
I got it, but I had flashback's so I had to go shower and cry a bit before posting.
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Old 09-12-2008, 11:53 AM
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Originally Posted by TheEAR View Post


And shows you can have an array of bass drivers,contrary to some who claim subs should not be stacked to form towers. I know for a fact identical (or very close) subs can be stacked and sound great(from floor to celling).

Let's hope so, because that's the build I am about to start on.
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Old 09-12-2008, 01:03 PM - Thread Starter
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Satansfx i will pay 0.2 dollar for it.lol tomorrow i will go to the market. now i'm very hungry after i got the answer. thanks for make me hungry
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Old 09-12-2008, 03:19 PM
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Quote:
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The Infinity Reference are still some of the best speakers...after all these years.Quality line arrays age well.

Discard your subwoofer project and go back to Best Buy
subwoofers.

Things seem well to the non-DIY eye



The storm was gone, but dark clouds still hung around
The perfect setting for things to come......

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Old 09-12-2008, 04:03 PM
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Infinity reference were some sweet speakers back in the day, but why spend all that money on them now when you can build or buy some much better line arrays for less. The drivers in IRS just have no where near the capability of the ones that we have at our disposal today.
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