Any one try a JTR/Seaton Sound Midrange Coaxial bargain DIY design? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 86 Old 01-03-2009, 08:49 AM - Thread Starter
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The more I read about the Seaton Sound and JTR speakers utilizing a coaxial Midrange tweeter in a configuration with two woofers the more I wish I could try them out at a DIY price.

I see the Eminence coaxials in the Parts Express catalog and have been wondering if any one with enough knowledge has actually designed and tested one?


JEFF PARKINSON


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post #2 of 86 Old 01-03-2009, 02:49 PM
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i was thinking the same thing about the B&C coaxials
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post #3 of 86 Old 01-03-2009, 04:17 PM
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i am with you these things are way over priced . and the side ports are horrible . i have been looking on some of the other forums and they have never herd of them . i want to build my own speakers soon like i did my subs . i really want something that sound great and can rock out as loud and effortlessly as possible . i have dynaudio now . great speaker but over priced .
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post #4 of 86 Old 01-03-2009, 05:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steve morgan View Post

i am with you these things are way over priced .


Over priced??? Have you even priced out the cost of the B&C drivers used in the triple 8? On top of that you have to add the cost of the xover, box and labor. I think these are a fantastic deal for the price. You could not build build a pair for less than what they are going for if you include labor and design costs.
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post #5 of 86 Old 01-03-2009, 06:17 PM
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I have built a similar configuration using Dayton reference 10" and Seas 1333.

They sound fantastic, I would reuse the Dayton in a heartbeat. The Seas tweeter is limited in output - would use something else next time, perhaps B&C - perhaps can fit in same enclosure.

I use a passive xover (factory design) for the Seas and then actively cross over to the Daytons. I use a Crown XTI-1000 for each speaker (L,C and R).

Price -
Seas+xover $180.
Daytons 2x$80=$160.
Enclosure - DIY, maybe $100 including stuffing, misc parts, paint, MDF, fasteners, etc.

Total=$440 plus value of external crossover.

Thus, the 888 would seem a bargain. Especially if the tweeter mid combo is better quality.

db
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post #6 of 86 Old 01-03-2009, 06:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dbbarron View Post

I have built a similar configuration using Dayton reference 10" and Seas 1333.

They sound fantastic, I would reuse the Dayton in a heartbeat. The Seas tweeter is limited in output - would use something else next time, perhaps B&C - perhaps can fit in same enclosure.

I use a passive xover (factory design) for the Seas and then actively cross over to the Daytons. I use a Crown XTI-1000 for each speaker (L,C and R).

Price -
Seas+xover $180.
Daytons 2x$80=$160.
Enclosure - DIY, maybe $100 including stuffing, misc parts, paint, MDF, fasteners, etc.

Total=$440 plus value of external crossover.

Thus, the 888 would seem a bargain. Especially if the tweeter mid combo is better quality.

db

...........
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post #7 of 86 Old 01-03-2009, 06:29 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dbbarron View Post

Thus, the 888 would seem a bargain.

Looked at the 2009 prices yet? Jeff didn't get the memo that we are in a recession.

JEFF PARKINSON


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post #8 of 86 Old 01-03-2009, 06:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGmouthinDC View Post

Looked at the 2009 prices yet? Jeff didn't get the memo that we are in a recession.

has your cell phone bill been reduced? I also don't see and of the sub woofer manufactures reducing there prices.
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post #9 of 86 Old 01-03-2009, 06:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steve morgan View Post

i am with you these things are way over priced . and the side ports are horrible . i have been looking on some of the other forums and they have never herd of them . i want to build my own speakers soon like i did my subs . i really want something that sound great and can rock out as loud and effortlessly as possible . i have dynaudio now . great speaker but over priced .

You have to remember that these loudspeakers were not origionally intended for home applications. They are designed for live music in MUCH larger rooms than your living room.

They are not loaded with cheap "hi-fi" type components-but rather pro type units and as such will get MUCH louder than any home use.

Sure you can build something that "looks" the same-but will have the same quality sound and output?

You have to compare apples to apples.

Danley Sound Labs

Physics-not fads
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post #10 of 86 Old 01-03-2009, 06:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dbbarron View Post


Total=$440 plus value of external crossover.

Thus, the 888 would seem a bargain. Especially if the tweeter mid combo is better quality.

db

Wait, how is nearly 3x the price of DIY a bargain?
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post #11 of 86 Old 01-03-2009, 07:10 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Manic1! View Post

has your cell phone bill been reduced? I also don't see and of the sub woofer manufactures reducing there prices.


Perhaps the 35% increase will be soon paired with a 20% off discount and we will all feel better about getting a great deal.

JEFF PARKINSON


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post #12 of 86 Old 01-03-2009, 07:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zero the hero View Post

Wait, how is nearly 3x the price of DIY a bargain?

The drivers in the triple 8 alone are close to $500 buy themselves then you have to add labor and all the other costs of running a business.

http://www.usspeaker.com/B%20&%20C%2...IAL%20SPEAKERS
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post #13 of 86 Old 01-03-2009, 08:14 PM
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"imitation is the biggest form of flattery". I'm happy to see that the design has inspired.


Quote:
Originally Posted by steve morgan View Post

the side ports are horrible

However functional. Port compression is a big problem that many don't address or even recognize. The large slot ports was to only way to maximize the port area while keeping them on the front.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dbbarron View Post

Enclosure - DIY, maybe $100 including stuffing, misc parts, paint, MDF, fasteners, etc.

FYI for the DYI~ $100 doesn't cover the CNC time. $100 doesn't cover grills, hardware and crossover. $100 doesn't cover the Baltic Birch. $100 doesn't cover the finish.
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post #14 of 86 Old 01-03-2009, 08:25 PM - Thread Starter
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Jeff I may have to come out of retirement and get a job so that I can include some triple 12's in my HT2.0.

Don't you need any work done around your house?

I am planing on changing my cardboard sign from will work for food, to will work for room, board and speakers!

JEFF PARKINSON


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post #15 of 86 Old 01-03-2009, 11:56 PM
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LOL! no problem. We'll setup bed in shop.
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post #16 of 86 Old 01-04-2009, 04:12 AM
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AT $500 for just materials cost, actual selling price would be much, much higher. As others have said, this does not include labor or machine time and other business costs, not to mention a reasonable profit.
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post #17 of 86 Old 01-04-2009, 06:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dbbarron View Post

AT $500 for just materials cost, actual selling price would be much, much higher. As others have said, this does not include labor or machine time and other business costs, not to mention a reasonable profit.

Yep plus great support

Warning to prevent risk of injuries, you should always be smarter than the equipment you are about to use.
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post #18 of 86 Old 01-04-2009, 06:53 AM
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I didnt mean to imply they are overpriced. I've heard nothing but good things about JTRs, they're just too much speaker for my needs.

I'm just saying I would love to see DIY design with an 8" B&C coaxial and a long throw single 8" or 10" woofer.
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post #19 of 86 Old 01-04-2009, 09:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steve morgan View Post

i am with you these things are way over priced . and the side ports are horrible . i have been looking on some of the other forums and they have never herd of them . i want to build my own speakers soon like i did my subs . i really want something that sound great and can rock out as loud and effortlessly as possible . i have dynaudio now . great speaker but over priced .

they cost a fair bit . but they are not way over priced considering the performance to price ratio . they big, built like a tank, fugly and are capable to producing true to life sound . in ht terms, will have dynamics capable of giving you the "you are there" feel . dont bash and hear them out when you get a chance .


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post #20 of 86 Old 01-04-2009, 01:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Manic1! View Post

Over priced??? Have you even priced out the cost of the B&C drivers used in the triple 8? On top of that you have to add the cost of the xover, box and labor. I think these are a fantastic deal for the price. You could not build build a pair for less than what they are going for if you include labor and design costs.

first off this was not a pissing contest no one is arguing what operating cost profit and all that . seriously duh. hints the DIY . free labor etc . only on avs does this happen everytime .

jeff have you ever thought of selling kits ?
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post #21 of 86 Old 01-04-2009, 02:00 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steve morgan View Post

jeff have you ever thought of selling kits ?


+1

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post #22 of 86 Old 01-04-2009, 02:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SlowcarIX View Post

they cost a fair bit . but they are not way over priced considering the performance to price ratio . they big, built like a tank, fugly and are capable to producing true to life sound . in ht terms, will have dynamics capable of giving you the "you are there" feel . dont bash and hear them out when you get a chance .

i am not bashing . i like everyone else has there own opinion . there is no where to easily listen to them and there are no pro reviews or side by side with a comprable speaker to compare . not putting down jtr obviously or i would not be looking into them . there just is not enough about them to justify at this time and no matter what anyone says they are pro speakers and looks for home audio has to be tolarable. this is the biggest reason i was interested in a kit or building my own so i could make the boxes the way i wanted them to look . including ports .
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post #23 of 86 Old 01-04-2009, 02:35 PM
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"I'm just saying I would love to see DIY design with an 8" B&C coaxial and a long throw single 8" or 10" woofer."

Why not dispense w/the 8"/10" and cross the B&C directly to a sub at 80 Hz?

Noah
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post #24 of 86 Old 01-04-2009, 03:27 PM
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I have run my Seas 1333 full range (80 Hz up) crossed over to a sub, and then run the same system with the 10" daytons - similar to what Noah is suggesting.

There is no audible difference to speak of at low volumes. At higher volumes, the dynamics of the full MCM system are far superior. Offloading the Seas woofer/mid from 330 Hz up (my xover point) makes a big difference.



db
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post #25 of 86 Old 01-04-2009, 03:52 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noah katz View Post

"I'm just saying I would love to see DIY design with an 8" B&C coaxial and a long throw single 8" or 10" woofer."

That would be getting closer to the Seaton Sound Catalyst without the amplification.



Yes, a DIY solution designed, tested and tweaked please......

Well, you can always wish.

JEFF PARKINSON


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post #26 of 86 Old 01-04-2009, 04:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGmouthinDC View Post

The more I read about the Seaton Sound and JTR speakers utilizing a coaxial Midrange tweeter in a configuration with two woofers the more I wish I could try them out at a DIY price.

I see the Eminence coaxials in the Parts Express catalog and have been wondering if any one with enough knowledge has actually designed and tested one?

As dbbarron can confirm, I have been supportive of any such DIY efforts and offered hints and given nudges in certain directions. Some of my approaches don't exactly jive with common DIY practice, and I don't have the time to argue about it on forums. With my own products, as well as the collaborative designs with Jeff for JTR, I focus on the goals for the product and the end result, not that it uses the latest unobtainium coated whatchamacallit.

As I've posted many times, such a project is well within the skills of many DIYers here, especially if taken on as a collaborative effort with real measurements and input from others. The easiest execution would be with a DCX2496 handling the woofer-coax like dbbarron has done. Minus a few internal details, his project is very much in the spirit of the prototype Catalysts I installed in Art Sonneborn's room.

The idea of kits or similar are something I've gestated for a long while, and have seen many good friends loose plenty of money trying to support such efforts. I do believe it's something which could be possible and viable, but only in specific ways which neither I or Jeff are in a good position to support at this very moment. This thread did prompt a few ideas that I'll consider, but in the end it would have to make sense to both sell and support. I'd be more likely to do something inexpensive than to do a more ambitious project with drivers as expensive as those used in the Catalyst. As a point of reference, purchasing just the DIY compareable drivers in the Catalyst outright would cost you close to $900 per speaker.

Most DIYers still greatly minimize the value of the execution and the significance of the crossover. This becomes more of a factor if you want to use more desirable crossover frequencies and are looking for even greater output and linearity from a speaker as I generally expect. Generally I prefer that whatever I sell has a high probability of actually delivering on the intended performance, where many DIYers love to "improve" and "customize" things right past the point of sounding good.

Mark Seaton
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post #27 of 86 Old 01-04-2009, 04:55 PM
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[quote=BIGmouthinDC;15457882]
Quote:
Originally Posted by noah katz View Post

"I'm just saying I would love to see DIY design with an 8" B&C coaxial and a long throw single 8" or 10" woofer."
QUOTE]

That would be getting closer to the Seaton Sound Catalyst without the amplification.



Yes, a DIY solution designed, tested and tweaked please......

Well, you can always wish.

How much do you feel a thoughtfully designed, tested, and detailed kit is worth beyond the price of the parts? If not beyond the price of the parts, how about what sort of performance would be expected at what reasonable cost?

Mark Seaton
Seaton Sound, Inc.
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post #28 of 86 Old 01-04-2009, 05:07 PM
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"That would be getting closer to the Seaton Sound Catalyst without the amplification."

That has two more woofers than what I meant; think Mark's Sparks.

Noah
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post #29 of 86 Old 01-04-2009, 05:54 PM
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Adding in the Crown XTI-1000 per speaker I am using brings the DIY cost WITH amplification up to about $1k. Terrific given the capability.

db
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post #30 of 86 Old 01-04-2009, 05:59 PM
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For reference:

With the screen in place....



With the screen removed....Each speaker is Dayton Reference 10"+Seas 1333 in WCW configuration. Subs are TC Sounds OEM 10, two more in back of room.

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