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post #361 of 414 Old 03-09-2009, 08:09 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darin View Post

I thought the "outsourcing panels from Panasonic" was last year's announcement, and this year they are getting out of the market completely.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tsloms View Post

That is correct Darin. Panasonic has made the panels for the Pioneer plasmas for the past year and Pioneer announced a few weeks ago that they were ceasing production on all plasmas.

Probably at the end of the day, on paper the numbers were just not looking all that great for the effort involved.


For the slight gain in deep blacks, compared to what I have now, either would be a fantastic upgrade... I'm running 1080i max with my 720p plasmas now...

I'll be moving my 42" bedroom unit to my work, 50" moves to the bedroom, and in with a 65", or maybe save some cash and get a 58" Panny... They are right around $2K as opposed to $5-6K in the 65".
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post #362 of 414 Old 03-09-2009, 08:13 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Warpdrv View Post

Hahahah Def.... a hard choice - 60" of Pioneer or 65" of Panasonic
I can get a nice break on both, honestly the 1080p 65" plasma's are nothing to sneeze at... crystal clear... I have a pretty good viewing distance, so that extra 5" is worth something to me...

Anyone got a good link to floor stand, I doubt my center channel will support the weight of a 60 or 65" plasma...





Yeah, Mits makes some great stuff, but I need as much brilliance in that room with all the windows as I can get. I love Plasma... they are just the best - great off angle and brightness... Rear proj just wont work for me..

Wish I could afford a 103" plasma.. That would be the Shiznit...

Can you do front projection in your room? Something like a Benq W5000 with a DaLite High Power screen and you can have the look of a 120" plasma . It will cost less than the 60" Kuro also.
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post #363 of 414 Old 03-09-2009, 08:20 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Warpdrv View Post

Probably at the end of the day, on paper the numbers were just not looking all that great for the effort involved.


For the slight gain in deep blacks, compared to what I have now, either would be a fantastic upgrade... I'm running 1080i max with my 720p plasmas now...

I'll be moving my 42" bedroom unit to my work, 50" moves to the bedroom, and in with a 65", or maybe save some cash and get a 58" Panny... They are right around $2K as opposed to $5-6K in the 65".

I paid $3,400 delivered for a 60" Kuro 6010 (forum sponsor) and this was when they first came out. I got one of the first one's shipped. Surely they have not gone up that much in a year and a half? I bought and installed it for my parents.
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post #364 of 414 Old 03-09-2009, 09:01 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mjg100 View Post

Can you do front projection in your room? Something like a Benq W5000 with a DaLite High Power screen and you can have the look of a 120" plasma . It will cost less than the 60" Kuro also.

With all the windows in that room it would be a waste and un watchable most of the time, except at night... http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d1...AVsetup001.jpg

Its not the ideal situation for sure, but I love that room, and I'm willing to work at it as a dual purpose room....


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Originally Posted by mjg100 View Post

I paid $3,400 delivered for a 60" Kuro 6010 (forum sponsor) and this was when they first came out. I got one of the first one's shipped. Surely they have not gone up that much in a year and a half? I bought and installed it for my parents.

Well for those in the know, 6020 or 6010 if I can even get them...

I got a price in town here for $3600.00 on the 6020....

Check this out.... I can get a 2 pak - 58" + a 50" from costco for $3500. Hahha How funny is that....
http://www.costco.com/Browse/Product.aspx?Prodid=11468977&whse=BC&Ne=5000001%204000000&eCat=BC|79|2341&N=4001381&Mo=4&No=0&Nr=P_CatalogName:BC&cat=3314&Ns=P_Price|1||P_SignDesc1&lang=en-US&Sp=C
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post #365 of 414 Old 03-09-2009, 09:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tsloms View Post

That is correct Darin. Panasonic has made the panels for the Pioneer plasmas for the past year and Pioneer announced a few weeks ago that they were ceasing production on all plasmas.

I am pretty sure gen 9 was all Pioneer's glass. Gen 10 will be panasonic glass, and yes, Pioneer is getting out of the business now. Sad...

The Pioneer 6010, 6020 and Elite smoke the Panasonic 58 and 65" as far as picture quality goes. You get what you pay for. Just my $0.02. No matter what you get, it's going to be a lot better than the 1080i 50".

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post #366 of 414 Old 03-09-2009, 09:31 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Warpdrv View Post

With all the windows in that room it would be a waste and un watchable most of the time, except at night... http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d1...AVsetup001.jpg

Its not the ideal situation for sure, but I love that room, and I'm willing to work at it as a dual purpose room....




Well for those in the know, 6020 or 6010 if I can even get them...

I got a price in town here for $3600.00 on the 6020....

Check this out.... I can get a 2 pak - 58" + a 50" from costco for $3500. Hahha How funny is that....
http://www.costco.com/Browse/Product.aspx?Prodid=11468977&whse=BC&Ne=5000001%204000000&eCat=BC|79|2341&N=4001381&Mo=4&No=0&Nr=P_CatalogName:BC&cat=3314&Ns=P_Price|1||P_SignDesc1&lang=en-US&Sp=C

I also have a room with a lot of windows. I have two of these: http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/f...m/P1000506.jpg In this same room I also have two 2' x 6', four 3' x 3'-6", one 8' x 16' and one 5' 15 lite French door with glass transom above it. I do not have blinds or drapes on any of the windows. I use a 50" SXRD set during the day and a projector at night. Projector by far is the way to go.
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post #367 of 414 Old 03-09-2009, 12:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John_E_Janowitz View Post

For anyone interested I'd be glad to host something here this summer. It would be nice to plan it for a weekend when Elite Audio is doing sound for a larger national act as well. I know a few people were interested to hear that system too.

John

First off, Thanks to Warpdrv and allll the members who took part in the planning and especially those who volunteered and got wounded and trucked their equipment and even multiple subs into the winter depths of Wisconsin to put it all on display and in some cases to assemble it on site to display and then took time to hook everything up so the other members could share in the experience. You guys rock!!
What seems to be a common thread from those that didn't attend and even some who did is a wish for an organized recording and charting session of the various subs performances probably both spl and sq. I guess what you'd call that type of assembly would be a "SHOOTOUT" as opposed to what occurred here which I think is correctly called a GTG or "Get Together" ?
Having said that John, your offer to host another session at 'Elite Audio' might be just the venue for a true "shootout". Thanks for the offer. If you were to accomplish organizing the date and get some more volunteers, I'd be there to witness and help with setup.
I would have gone to Warpdrv's GTG except for scheduled conflicts.
I've read about other "shootouts" where tests were performed and recorded and charts were prepared and the results released with printouts. But what I personally find interesting AND useful is what NUANCE and RICCI did, they wrote about the subs at this GTG and gave their own personal impressions and assements. So a combination of the two results I guess would please almost everybody.
John, what kind of listening area do you have to assemble equipment in for a shootout? And would any of your company testing equipment be useful doing a "shootout" ?
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post #368 of 414 Old 03-09-2009, 01:50 PM
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Hi. I just saw this thread. Looks very interesting. You guys must had a lot of fun listening to serious subwoofers.

I want to ask, how is the SQ of the F112 compared to the LMS? The JL is known as king of SQ in commercial subs, and the LMS is known as the king of drivers. Since both subs were there, it might be a very interesting comparison.
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post #369 of 414 Old 03-09-2009, 04:52 PM
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Personally, the LMS was just as good as the JL to my ears, if not better. However, I didn't critically compare them, switching back and forth between only those two. The LMS is certainly the top dog for both music AND movies IMO. If I had the money, I'd pick one up used (or two) and be done with it. Of course, you'll need one heck of an amp to run that baby, thus putting you into the JL price range when you consider all materials and power. Still, I'd take the LMS over the JL.

Just my $0.02.

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post #370 of 414 Old 03-10-2009, 08:00 AM - Thread Starter
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Seeing as the JL is such an awesome little driver, I really love this thing in my small room, we were really putting it through its paces last night with some listening. It really just puts out some really strong, solid, clean bass and goes low in a medium to small room. I don't care all that much about hitting very far below 20hz, it just doesn't do anything for me, and also it makes me worry about my DIY drivers.

With that said If I could fit an LMS in this small room without it looking stupid I would, but its completely un-necessary. I'm very very happy with the F112.

Truly IMO the LMS has just a slight edge on SQ, but it really only starts to become glaringly obvious when the db's start to creep higher, and when you want perfect SQ all the way up to max spl the LMS is your driver of choice. When you start to run the F112 up past its line in the sand, it will start to compress.... The LMS almost has no such limits....

Both are extremely well designed drivers... I think the LMS just offers that next step up the ladder even compared to the F112. Another thing to consider is that even as good as my enclosures are built for my Mal-X's that we used they could be even better and more inert. That is another reason that the F112 puts forward such a compelling argument, its a no holds barred product.... worth the investment for certain.

I have a feeling that the F112 didn't get enough demo time for people here...
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post #371 of 414 Old 03-10-2009, 11:20 AM
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The LMS just flat out sounds smooth and squeeky clean and will shake the foundation at the same time. It's a rare set of attributes. Usually you get one or the other. Illka's test results really put it on the map, but hearing one is enlightening.
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post #372 of 414 Old 03-10-2009, 12:55 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricci View Post

The LMS just flat out sounds smooth and squeeky clean and will shake the foundation at the same time. It's a rare set of attributes. Usually you get one or the other. Illka's test results really put it on the map, but hearing one is enlightening.


AMEN BROTHER !!!!!!

There is no equal to that driver IMO !!!! And I have heard many, many subs...
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post #373 of 414 Old 03-10-2009, 01:18 PM
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There's one for sale at the shack. I would have jumped on it but I already blew my subwoofer budget for the year :P
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post #374 of 414 Old 03-10-2009, 01:43 PM
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Originally Posted by evilbeaver View Post

There's one for sale at the shack. I would have jumped on it but I already blew my subwoofer budget for the year :P

Weird, looks like it's up on eBay as well??

HTS:
http://www.hometheatershack.com/foru...nib-850-a.html

eBay:
http://cgi.ebay.com/TC-Sounds-LMS-54...QQcmdZViewItem
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post #375 of 414 Old 03-10-2009, 03:16 PM
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I know where there is another one as well as this one. For around $700. It's been difficult for me to talk myself out of these, but i've got other priorities at the moment.
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post #376 of 414 Old 03-10-2009, 03:33 PM
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If I knew I could sell my Epik Tower for around $1,000 + shipping, and build a proper enclosure and provide proper amplification for this badboy for only another $500 on top of the $850 for the driver I would do exactly that. Unfortunately I am pretty scared of DIY as I have no woodworking skills whatsoever.
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post #377 of 414 Old 03-10-2009, 05:15 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricci View Post

I know where there is another one as well as this one. For around $700. It's been difficult for me to talk myself out of these, but i've got other priorities at the moment.

So tempting, but I need 3... I'll hold off until the 09's come out.
I am already heading down a road of stretching the budget, with the new Pre-Amp and New Plasma in the works...
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post #378 of 414 Old 03-10-2009, 06:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Warpdrv View Post

So tempting, but I need 3... I'll hold off until the 09's come out.

That's what I'm doing too. It's not like either one of us are deprived for the moment. Who knows something else may come out to compete with the LMS in the meantime.
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post #379 of 414 Old 03-10-2009, 07:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricci View Post

That's what I'm doing too. It's not like either one of us are deprived for the moment. Who knows something else may come out to compete with the LMS in the meantime.

Ricci,

I'm placing myself in the same camp; I have 6 Maelstrom units and I'd like to add 4 09 LMS'...

Kyle,

You 'really' need to start an enthusiast thread somewhere for the 09 models so we may build momentum!

Larry
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post #380 of 414 Old 03-18-2009, 04:20 PM
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Anyone know what the 09 LMS price will be?
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post #381 of 414 Old 03-30-2009, 07:10 AM
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Hi guys,

Can I ask a question since a lot of guys heard the subs? For really deep bass stuff (eg < 30Hz), does the AE PR of the AV15 make any noises (mechanical) at high excursions?

How about the RE XXX (sealed mode) at very high excursion at ultra low freqs?

Reason is because my usage would be nearfield just directly behind my seat (eg tactile as well), so any noise would manifest itself.

I just found via users that a commercial sub may not be so suitable after all (and its supposed to be a very good sub).
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post #382 of 414 Old 03-30-2009, 11:21 AM - Thread Starter
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Hey 2100, I still have the AE Passive sub here in my house (it is up for auction BTW), and I ran it a few times over the time I have had it here, I don't have a lowpass on the system I was running it on (F112 built in HP), and therefore the AE was not restricted, I didn't notice any such unusual noises or artifacts coming from it, and Nuance can attest that it was going full tilt. Let me state it is an impressive sub, not as exacting as the F112, but no slouch either none the less. This is the first PR sub I have had the chance to hear, and still to this day I am impressed with it.

I'm sure John will add more to my impressions being more familiar, but it will obviously have a limit and if you take it there it will present something of some notification to you, what exactly that is, I am not sure as I never found it.
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post #383 of 414 Old 03-30-2009, 01:39 PM
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Yup yup - totally agree with warpdrv.

The passive subwoofer has a sound of it's own, being somewhere in between a ported and a sealed subwoofer. Personally, I'd take it over a ported subwoofer for sure, at least concerning sound quality, but a sealed still sounds best to my ears. The cool thing is - the passive, at times, sounds like a sealed subwoofer. YMMV, of course, but I don't think using any of John's drivers in your enclosures will pose a problem or cause any noise oddities.

Hope that helps.

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post #384 of 414 Old 03-30-2009, 01:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Warpdrv View Post

Hey 2100, I still have the AE Passive sub here in my house (it is up for auction BTW), and I ran it a few times over the time I have had it here, I don't have a lowpass on the system I was running it on (F112 built in HP), and therefore the AE was not restricted, I didn't notice any such unusual noises or artifacts coming from it, and Nuance can attest that it was going full tilt. Let me state it is an impressive sub, not as exacting as the F112, but no slouch either none the less. This is the first PR sub I have had the chance to hear, and still to this day I am impressed with it.

I'm sure John will add more to my impressions being more familiar, but it will obviously have a limit and if you take it there it will present something of some notification to you, what exactly that is, I am not sure as I never found it.


Link to the auction?

Lot's of low rent stuff stacked up into a medium rent pile.
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post #385 of 414 Old 03-30-2009, 02:27 PM
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^ lol!

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post #386 of 414 Old 03-30-2009, 02:52 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
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Link to the auction?

My PM box
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post #387 of 414 Old 03-30-2009, 03:04 PM
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hey, one of these days i'll actually be able to get down there to pick that up. haha I also want to drop off the little one with the AV12 and Pr's for you to check out sometime as well.

John

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post #388 of 414 Old 03-30-2009, 03:48 PM - Thread Starter
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SOLD !!!!

I guess John's the highest bidder.... hahahahah

That didn't take long....
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post #389 of 414 Old 03-30-2009, 04:10 PM
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Since the topic of the AV15 subs came up, I have a couple of questions regarding them. John mentioned that the AV15H has a RE of 2.7 and the AV15X has a Re of 3.2, what does it mean? Is the AV15X a little easier on the amp to drive? Both of them are still are 4ohms? Right? My amp is a ED LT1300 plate amp, rated for 4ohms. Also, with the stuffing I have in my sealed box, the internal cubic feet comes to around 4.75cf. In that size box, I believe the Q of the AV15H sub is in the lows .40's and the Q of the AV15X sub is in the lows .50's. I've read in different articles that the best Q for a sealed sub is between .50 and .70. Can someone clarify if this is correct, specially for the sound quality of the sub? I know the lower Q will produce a little better deeper bass in a sealed box. I was going to get a AV15H or AV15X driver a couple of weeks ago, so hopefully after this matter is clarified I can go ahead and buy the sub once and for all. I prefer the A15H driver for my big room
(1-2 db's better for the low bass and a little better response (flatter) but gives 1-2 db's in the mid-bass to the AV15X), both are close though. The RE and quite low Q of the AV15H in my box has me somewhat confused. My eq. is the ED EQ2 (2-parametric bands with a subsonic filter). This driver will be replacing my TC 3K sub.
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post #390 of 414 Old 03-31-2009, 06:10 AM
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Hehehehe. I think you were kidding about the WOTW's thing with all of the subs... I kid.

So 2 channel material only? I didn't know if there would be some movie demo scenes or what.
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