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post #91 of 781 Old 03-20-2009, 08:12 PM - Thread Starter
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Of course if you wanted to go ridiculous route, and if you could wait till june, you could pick up one of the Maelstrom 21" subs. Lots of displacement for ~$600 estimated.

I'm thinking that may be my upgrade sub. It will be a while for me though. Right now I'm pretty content with my single 19Ov.2. Sounds great, but I don't think I will be amazed at the output from any sub in my room till I'm hitting 130 dB. I come from the car audio world and I was hitting nearly 140 dB in my car with 3 cheap 10" subs and only 600 watts of power. AND THAT WAS WITH A POORLY DESIGNED BOX AND A CASSETTE PLAYER AS THE SOURCE!!!. If I did that in my house I would have triple the amount of TTFSD moments and a divorce soon to follow.


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post #92 of 781 Old 03-20-2009, 08:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brandonnash View Post

Of course if you wanted to go ridiculous route, and if you could wait till june, you could pick up one of the Maelstrom 21" subs. Lots of displacement for ~$600 estimated.

I'm thinking that may be my upgrade sub. It will be a while for me though. Right now I'm pretty content with my single 19Ov.2. Sounds great, but I don't think I will be amazed at the output from any sub in my room till I'm hitting 130 dB. I come from the car audio world and I was hitting nearly 140 dB in my car with 3 cheap 10" subs and only 600 watts of power. AND THAT WAS WITH A POORLY DESIGNED BOX AND A CASSETTE PLAYER AS THE SOURCE!!!. If I did that in my house I would have triple the amount of TTFSD moments and a divorce soon to follow.

130/140db at what frequency?

small cabin, high tuning = very high spl.

meaningless in the home.

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post #93 of 781 Old 03-20-2009, 10:12 PM - Thread Starter
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50-60 hz. nothing deep at all. Pretty fun to ride in though!!! Was cool at the time, but not recommended.


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post #94 of 781 Old 03-21-2009, 05:55 AM
 
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i know exactly what you mean when coming from car audio. although it has been awhile(1990), i built quite a few ported, bandpass, and dual bandpass(4th order) enclosures. that was back in the day when the orion hcca amps were the ticket since they were stable to 1/2 ohm and beyond. not that i'm wanting that kind of output in my home, but most of the commercially made subs are quite puny in my opinion. i would though like to have some of the impact that you get from using subs in a car. i think that is what most of us are really looking for... the visceral impact but without overbearing everything else. i really never cared for the sound from a sealed enclosure, so what about my idea using an 18" driver? i hope i'm not threadjacking here!
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post #95 of 781 Old 03-21-2009, 01:44 PM
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I'm interested in coming... I live in Huntsville, about 1.5 hours south. I only own a measly Outlaw LFM-1 Compact (3rd floor apartment). I do have a fairly nice camera so I'll be happy to photo-document, and I have a decent laptop. I don't have a SPL meter or microphone though.

-Will
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post #96 of 781 Old 03-21-2009, 03:27 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kip_ View Post

I'm interested in coming... I live in Huntsville, about 1.5 hours south. I only own a measly Outlaw LFM-1 Compact (3rd floor apartment). I do have a fairly nice camera so I'll be happy to photo-document, and I have a decent laptop. I don't have a SPL meter or microphone though.

-Will

I was hoping we could get a couple commercially made subs. I have never heard on outlaw sub so if you want to bring it I will shoot you a PM with the info. And I am also up for anyone who wants to bring a camera along. I would like to get lots of pictures and video if possible. A laptop probably wouldn't hurt but I think ricci is bringing his along and I have my pc in the room where we will do most of the listening.


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post #97 of 781 Old 03-21-2009, 03:38 PM
 
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Right now I am bringing my 6.5 CF Shiva-X and Nady XA1100. I will probably also bring my RS sound meter and lap top.
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post #98 of 781 Old 03-21-2009, 08:36 PM
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Brandon,

Were you planning on burning that 30min test disc? Were you going to put movie soundtracks on there as well or was it going to be music tracks only? I could do a music only disc but I'd need to know what everyone wants on there. I'd like to see some movie clips from Horton Hears a Who. There is some very nice low and loud bass through out that movie.


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post #99 of 781 Old 03-22-2009, 05:58 AM - Thread Starter
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Ricci if you want to throw together a music CD I will do a DVD with movie clips only.
Right now I am looking at clips from wotw, cloverfield, dk, black hawk down, and maybe band of brothers. That will only be about twenty minutes worth, but I will pick up Horton before then and find the good stuff. Hot fuzz is also very good. Good funny film too. I only have a few concert dvds but I will have a listen to those to see if there are any decent tracks.

If anyone has a better receiver they are willing to haul it would probably help too. Otherwise we will really test the upper crossover points as my receiver has a crossover that only goes to 100 hz. This may actually be good though to see what the subs can do on their upper end.


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post #100 of 781 Old 03-22-2009, 08:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brandonnash View Post

Ricci if you want to throw together a music CD I will do a DVD with movie clips only.
Right now I am looking at clips from wotw, cloverfield, dk, black hawk down, and maybe band of brothers. That will only be about twenty minutes worth, but I will pick up Horton before then and find the good stuff. Hot fuzz is also very good. Good funny film too. I only have a few concert dvds but I will have a listen to those to see if there are any decent tracks.

If anyone has a better receiver they are willing to haul it would probably help too. Otherwise we will really test the upper crossover points as my receiver has a crossover that only goes to 100 hz. This may actually be good though to see what the subs can do on their upper end.

I'll bring my HK AVR-247 it has adjustable crossover points all the way down to 40hz for each channel. It puts out 50 watts per channel (all channels driven), is 7.1, and HDMI 1.3 capable (takes lossless PCM streams from Blu-rays and HD-DVDs, and i think it can accept bitstreams as well)
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post #101 of 781 Old 03-22-2009, 09:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brandonnash View Post

Ricci if you want to throw together a music CD I will do a DVD with movie clips only.
Right now I am looking at clips from wotw, cloverfield, dk, black hawk down, and maybe band of brothers. That will only be about twenty minutes worth, but I will pick up Horton before then and find the good stuff. Hot fuzz is also very good. Good funny film too. I only have a few concert dvds but I will have a listen to those to see if there are any decent tracks.
.

Sounds good. Horton is a kids movie but it is full of awesome bass including some 10hz and single digit stuff and good surround effects through out. It's worth buying. I'd like to have the Skidoosh scene from Kung Fu Panda on there if you have it. It's quick and fun.


I'll try to make the music cd in the next week. Track requests? If there's something you guys want on there, say so and I'll try to get it in there.

Brandon,

Can we get a few more pics of the room and possibly a floor plan attached to the first post? We can look at likely locations for placing the subs.


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post #102 of 781 Old 03-22-2009, 07:11 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricci View Post

Brandon,

Can we get a few more pics of the room and possibly a floor plan attached to the first post? We can look at likely locations for placing the subs.

I'll try to punch out a floor plan tomorrow. I'm no good at doing any type of computer drawing, so it will be a very crude attempt. If I ever tried sketchup I could probably get something better. May have to download that.


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post #103 of 781 Old 03-22-2009, 07:54 PM - Thread Starter
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Alright guys, looks like this might get out of control by go time. If everyone brings/ships the subs they say they are we are now up to 8 subs with 4 large amps. Probably need to put a cap at 10, so if anyone else has any other variety (Ficar, Soundsplinter, etc) speak up quickly. I hate to leave anyone out, but we do want to have time to critically evaluate all the subs.


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post #104 of 781 Old 03-22-2009, 07:58 PM
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FYI, here is my sub (there are 3 different LFM-1 models, this is the compact)

http://www.outlawaudio.com/products/lfmcompact.html

If someone has something more powerful then feel free to bump me in favor of them...
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post #105 of 781 Old 03-22-2009, 08:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brandonnash View Post

Alright guys, looks like this might get out of control by go time. If everyone brings/ships the subs they say they are we are now up to 8 subs with 4 large amps. Probably need to put a cap at 10, so if anyone else has any other variety (Ficar, Soundsplinter, etc) speak up quickly. I hate to leave anyone out, but we do want to have time to critically evaluate all the subs.


I have some tc sounds epic 12. No box as of yet, but I could do something. Definitely the crown itech8000.

 

 

Welcome my son, welcome to the machine....Must it be? It must be!

 


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post #106 of 781 Old 03-23-2009, 07:28 AM
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Bosso gave me a good idea through pm of bringing a mixing board to run all of the subs off of. We'll run the LFE out from the receiver into the board and then label the various channels and use them to set the levels for each SW prior to the listening evaluations. That way we can quickly just switch channels on the mixer. and it'll all be level matched. I'm already bringing a Xenyx 1202 for REW but I'll need another mixer to run the subs through. I have another one but I'd have to take it out of the rack I have it in currently. Does anyone else have one? I'll bring my second one if need be. We'll need a bunch of XLR cables as well. I can bring some of those too but I'd like to avoid dismantling the entire rig that my bands use. Robert don't you have some?

Brandon,

Sorry to keep pestering you man , but what's the word on that 220v line to your dryer? Is that confirmed and is it an option? Let me know what type of plug is on it if it is 220v, plus estimate how far it is to the listening area and I can whip together an extension cord.


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post #107 of 781 Old 03-23-2009, 01:24 PM
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this is awesome. just curios, will each sub be placed in the same physical location for listening in order to make sure everybody is hearing the sub and not random room modes?

will each be level matched +/-1db? if so, how?

just anticipating the kind of pushback on the results that is likely to come a posteriori.

Listen. It's All Good.
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post #108 of 781 Old 03-23-2009, 03:30 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

this is awesome. just curios, will each sub be placed in the same physical location for listening in order to make sure everybody is hearing the sub and not random room modes?

will each be level matched +/-1db? if so, how?

just anticipating the kind of pushback on the results that is likely to come a posteriori.

Read the post above yours.
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post #109 of 781 Old 03-23-2009, 04:01 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricci View Post

Bosso gave me a good idea through pm of bringing a mixing board to run all of the subs off of. We'll run the LFE out from the receiver into the board and then label the various channels and use them to set the levels for each SW prior to the listening evaluations. That way we can quickly just switch channels on the mixer. and it'll all be level matched. I'm already bringing a Xenyx 1202 for REW but I'll need another mixer to run the subs through. I have another one but I'd have to take it out of the rack I have it in currently. Does anyone else have one? I'll bring my second one if need be. We'll need a bunch of XLR cables as well. I can bring some of those too but I'd like to avoid dismantling the entire rig that my bands use. Robert don't you have some?

Brandon,

Sorry to keep pestering you man , but what's the word on that 220v line to your dryer? Is that confirmed and is it an option? Let me know what type of plug is on it if it is 220v, plus estimate how far it is to the listening area and I can whip together an extension cord.

That's a really great idea about the mixer. I don't have one but I may have someone that does. I will ask. As far as xlr cables I only have the one rca to xlr cable. Will ask around about that too.

I am about to drop my kid off for baseball but after that I will post about the dryer.


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post #110 of 781 Old 03-23-2009, 04:08 PM - Thread Starter
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ok, my dryer says 120/240V 28 amp. It takes a 3 or 4 prong plug. I'll have to pull it out from the wall to see if it has the 3 or 4 prong.

I will have to wait a bit to look at my breaker box to see which it pushes, but it looks like 120V.


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post #111 of 781 Old 03-23-2009, 06:43 PM - Thread Starter
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Here's a very POOR layout of the room. The X's are possible places for the subwoofers. I looked at google sketchup for a few minutes and learned a lot---->I learned that I need a lot more time to learn to use that.

Looked at my breaker box for the washer and I'm no better than I was in the first place. It doesn't say what the voltage of the dryer is, but it's sitting on 2-30 amp breakers. If you can't tell, I know nothing about electrical in the house.

When we have the meet I may move the seating back some to make more room up front, depending on our final decisions for sub placement. Everything in the room is moveable except the computer desk. It's attached to the wall.


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post #112 of 781 Old 03-23-2009, 08:21 PM
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I will get the cables together tonight and tell you how many I have.

 

 

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post #113 of 781 Old 03-23-2009, 08:51 PM
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I have 12 xlr cables in my hands right now. I have more upstairs packed away. I will get them soon. How many do you need and how long. Some are super long and some are really short.

 

 

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post #114 of 781 Old 03-24-2009, 01:37 PM
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Guys I'm thinking that we find the best useable SW location in Brandon's room and listen to all of the subs from that spot. All subs should be calibrated to the same level relative to the mains and will use the same xover freq (100hz looks like).

I'd like to EQ each of the subs for the most extended flattest response as well, but I'm trying to think of a quick easy way to do that without spending 30min in between each listening session doing it and then calibrating the levels . Ideally we would do all of this prior to the listening sessions and everything would be set-up to just physically move the subs and switch a few cables and we'd be ready to get right back to listening evaluations. I don't see a way to do that without a dedicated EQ unit for each SW though. The Rane PE17 won't cut it for this. It can do the HPF's and level boosting, but it can only eQ one SW usefully (possibly 2 if one of them only needs 2 bands of parametric EQ, (by using 3 bands for one and 2 for the other and bypassing)).

I also have a DCX2496 that I could bring. Does anyone else have EQ units that they could bring for their sub? I guess I could always store the EQ settings for each SW on the DCX. PITA.










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I have 12 xlr cables in my hands right now. I have more upstairs packed away. I will get them soon. How many do you need and how long. Some are super long and some are really short.

Awesome. Throw them in a bag and plan on bringing them I guess.


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post #115 of 781 Old 03-24-2009, 01:45 PM
 
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As far as seating should we bring some chairs? I have a collapsable chair that I use when watching my son play soccer.
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post #116 of 781 Old 03-24-2009, 02:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricci View Post

Guys I'm thinking that we find the best useable SW location in Brandon's room and listen to all of the subs from that spot. All subs should be calibrated to the same level relative to the mains and will use the same xover freq (100hz looks like).

I'd like to EQ each of the subs for the most extended flattest response as well, but I'm trying to think of a quick easy way to do that without spending 30min in between each listening session doing it and then calibrating the levels . Ideally we would do all of this prior to the listening sessions and everything would be set-up to just physically move the subs and switch a few cables and we'd be ready to get right back to listening evaluations. I don't see a way to do that without a dedicated EQ unit for each SW though. The Rane PE17 won't cut it for this. It can do the HPF's and level boosting, but it can only eQ one SW usefully (possibly 2 if one of them only needs 2 bands of parametric EQ, (by using 3 bands for one and 2 for the other and bypassing)).

I also have a DCX2496 that I could bring. Does anyone else have EQ units that they could bring for their sub? I guess I could always store the EQ settings for each SW on the DCX. PITA.

You shouldn't need a separate smoothing EQ setting for each sub if your plan is to place them all in the same spot.

Signal shaping EQ (L/T, HPF, Le curve correction, etc.) should be a part of the subwoofer design and each entered into the fray as-is.

Bosso
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post #117 of 781 Old 03-24-2009, 04:04 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mjg100 View Post

As far as seating should we bring some chairs? I have a collapsable chair that I use when watching my son play soccer.

When we get closer to the date I'll see how many people we have coming then I'll look to make sure I have enough extra chairs. I'll let you know.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bossobass View Post

You shouldn't need a separate smoothing EQ setting for each sub if your plan is to place them all in the same spot.

Signal shaping EQ (L/T, HPF, Le curve correction, etc.) should be a part of the subwoofer design and each entered into the fray as-is.

Bosso

I agree with this a bit. While I would love to have EQ set up for all the subs, especially since I've not heard my sub properly eq'd, I think it may take too long to do it with every sub. We can see how it goes when everyone gets here, but it may push the event from an 8-10pm evening to a 1-3am evening.

Ricci, once you get here we can see how long it would actually take for a quick EQ job just for time testing.


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post #118 of 781 Old 03-24-2009, 10:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bossobass View Post

You shouldn't need a separate smoothing EQ setting for each sub if your plan is to place them all in the same spot.

Signal shaping EQ (L/T, HPF, Le curve correction, etc.) should be a part of the subwoofer design and each entered into the fray as-is.

Bosso

I see where you are coming from here since all of the subs are in the same spot they will be subjected to the same room issues. I guess we could use a generic EQ setting if there is a bad peak from that spot it will affect all of them the same. Lets say that I want to bring the DCX to do a 20hz shelf and boost up the <20hz area of the sealed LMS and XXX (a possibility) and someone else has a sealed sub but no LT circuit or other means to boost it up?


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post #119 of 781 Old 03-25-2009, 03:01 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Ricci View Post

I see where you are coming from here since all of the subs are in the same spot they will be subjected to the same room issues. I guess we could use a generic EQ setting if there is a bad peak from that spot it will affect all of them the same. Lets say that I want to bring the DCX to do a 20hz shelf and boost up the <20hz area of the sealed LMS and XXX (a possibility) and someone else has a sealed sub but no LT circuit or other means to boost it up?

I don't believe my sub will need any <20 hz boost. It's got a low tuning and room gain below that.

The other guys that bring their sealed stuff will have to ultimately make the decision whether they want a boost or not. Don't want anyone to have to haul a damaged driver home.


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post #120 of 781 Old 03-25-2009, 05:09 AM
 
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Originally Posted by bossobass View Post

You shouldn't need a separate smoothing EQ setting for each sub if your plan is to place them all in the same spot.

Signal shaping EQ (L/T, HPF, Le curve correction, etc.) should be a part of the subwoofer design and each entered into the fray as-is.

Bosso

Well then count my sub out, if that is how it will be done.
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