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post #1 of 30 Old 04-14-2009, 02:14 PM - Thread Starter
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I noticed that Dolby just came out with a new system a week or so ago. It put speakers above the mains. I'm sure it is nice but I've always thought about speakers above and below the listener. Of course this presents new install challenges but I'm thinking that the effects possible could take surround sound to the next level of immersion. I'm thinking jet flyovers or the alien busting through the grate at your feet.

Has something like this already been done? Is it because this would only cater to dedicated home theaters which is probably like 1% or less of the market. Am I missing something? Thoughts?
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post #2 of 30 Old 04-14-2009, 02:37 PM
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Hmm what kind of signal would you send to them? Meaning would they receiver the same audio content as the mains, or surrounds, etc... Ive seen a few people running multiple surround speakers meaning like 4 each for the left and right surrounds 4 each for the rear surrounds 2 speakers for the center channel 4 each for the mains. So im not sure if that is sort of the same idea being used or not but it would be sort of interesting to find out a little more info about. I wouldnt mind running extra speakers if it would totally change the listening experience.

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post #3 of 30 Old 04-14-2009, 02:42 PM
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Not new... do more research...
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post #4 of 30 Old 04-14-2009, 02:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by matt5112 View Post

Not new... do more research...

What an insightful post. Thank you for the plethora of knowledge. I doubt any of us would've thought about that.

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post #5 of 30 Old 04-14-2009, 02:57 PM - Thread Starter
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Reecew I'm talking about a new dolby or THX standard, meaning new dedicated channels.
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post #6 of 30 Old 04-14-2009, 02:58 PM - Thread Starter
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my apologies to avsforum, no place for petty name calling.
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post #7 of 30 Old 04-14-2009, 03:30 PM
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Ahh i see. So soon it will be time for a new receiver capable of this what 9.1 or better??

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post #8 of 30 Old 04-14-2009, 04:45 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by reecew View Post

Ahh i see. So soon it will be time for a new receiver capable of this what 9.1 or better??

no idea I need to do more research :P
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post #9 of 30 Old 04-14-2009, 06:17 PM
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i think my new 7.1 receiver will be good for some time to come.

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post #10 of 30 Old 04-14-2009, 08:17 PM
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Okay well allow me to clarify then... If you had been following receivers at all you'd know that some manufacturers have already created 9.1 units.

The units were capable of creating a left and right "presence" channel from the regular 5.1 content which was to be placed above the left and right channels akin to the system you've brought up. Reviewers claimed that it did add a nice sense of atmosphere etc.

Go look up something as simple as the Yamaha RX-V 2700. It will create presence channels... Also note the year this particular model came out...

Now quit calling people names because your incompetence.

Also, please provide me the link to this so-called "news" as I'm inclined to say I don't care as the most recent standard for movies which is called the "Blu-ray" only supports 7.1 audio despite what True-HD or DTS-MA can handle. Furthermore, once digital distribution becomes the norm, you can kiss quality the **** good-bye.

And on top of all that... The Yamaha RX-Z11... Both front and rear presence speakers. Where is Dolby again?
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post #11 of 30 Old 04-14-2009, 09:33 PM - Thread Starter
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lol nice of you to clarify after you've been called out, gee thanks. Not calling you names because of my incompetence but rather your sorry attitude. Its not like this is the first time you've been so helpful.

Anyway Onkyo just released the first Dolby Pro Logic IIz receiver which supports 2 extra front channels placed above the LR mains. What I'm asking for is discrete channels above and below the listener, not some pseudo solution that derives the extra channels out of an existing format.
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post #12 of 30 Old 04-14-2009, 09:39 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by johnathanwinter View Post

the next system to come will be an additional 4 which will be located on the ceiling above you. they are having issues with it though. whenever voices are played it gives you the voice of god feeling. trust me... you cant make this sh++ up.

lol
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post #13 of 30 Old 04-15-2009, 04:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by matt5112 View Post

Okay well allow me to clarify then... If you had been following receivers at all you'd know that some manufacturers have already created 9.1 units.

The units were capable of creating a left and right "presence" channel from the regular 5.1 content which was to be placed above the left and right channels akin to the system you've brought up. Reviewers claimed that it did add a nice sense of atmosphere etc.

Go look up something as simple as the Yamaha RX-V 2700. It will create presence channels... Also note the year this particular model came out...

Now quit calling people names because your incompetence.

Also, please provide me the link to this so-called "news" as I'm inclined to say I don't care as the most recent standard for movies which is called the "Blu-ray" only supports 7.1 audio despite what True-HD or DTS-MA can handle. Furthermore, once digital distribution becomes the norm, you can kiss quality the **** good-bye.

And on top of all that... The Yamaha RX-Z11... Both front and rear presence speakers. Where is Dolby again?

Seriously, this is a public forum used to gain knowledge socially not on your own. If even 10% of the people on this board had your attitude i do not think it would still be around. Imagine if everyone who asked a question was told DO RESEARCH wtf would be the point of this site? You may be knowledgeable and helpful to some people at times. But thats no excuse to talk down to anyone. So you think about your actions and we will accept your apology when your ready sir.

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post #14 of 30 Old 04-15-2009, 05:42 AM
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Wow, nice one on the B movie drama there.

My first post was not abrasive in any way. It simply suggested that you search 9.1 etc.

My second post was quite provocative due to your wonderful way of saying "Gee thanks, but no thanks. I've given up on that."

To answer your question, you're not getting it till BD is replaced because its limited to 8 channels total.

Is that enough or do i have apologize for returning the favour you so quickly deduced was the correct method to resolving my first post?
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post #15 of 30 Old 04-15-2009, 06:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by matt5112 View Post

It simply suggested that you search 9.1 etc.

No... actually it didn't say that. If it had said that (what, specifically, to research) it would have bordered on helpful.


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post #16 of 30 Old 04-15-2009, 07:23 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by matt5112 View Post

Wow, nice one on the B movie drama there.

My first post was not abrasive in any way. It simply suggested that you search 9.1 etc.

My second post was quite provocative due to your wonderful way of saying "Gee thanks, but no thanks. I've given up on that."

To answer your question, you're not getting it till BD is replaced because its limited to 8 channels total.

Is that enough or do i have apologize for returning the favour you so quickly deduced was the correct method to resolving my first post?

If you didn't mean to be abrasive in your first post then I apologize. You have to realize that your post seemed very dismissive as if I had no business posting.

I'm aware that true 9.1 is not available yet thats not what I was getting at. As the title says "surround sound progression", I'm more interested with what the next meaningful evolution will be. When the Onkyo was released I was deflated that they were only adding more speakers right above the LR mains. Granted I haven't heard the system but it seems like baby steps. Even if the industry jumped on it I'd probably pass. I only upgraded to 7.1 because it is supported by blu-ray but IMO its really not a big deal compared to 5.1. Now thats why I was thinking would speakers directly above and below the listener be the next big step?
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post #17 of 30 Old 04-15-2009, 07:48 AM
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There are several other threads on this topic and something like Pllz that is adding the "height" channel to the modern 7.1 setup.



http://www.dolby.com/consumer/techno...logic-IIz.html

The 2009 AVRs (Onkyos) are coming out with this so yes 9.1/11.1 is here!!

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post #18 of 30 Old 04-15-2009, 08:36 AM - Thread Starter
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I'd say its almost here, I'd say its really arrived when we see media encoded with 9.1, when the industry as a whole jumps onboard. "upconverting" 7.1 or lower to 9.1 doesn't really count IMO.

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post #19 of 30 Old 04-15-2009, 09:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by evilbeaver View Post

I'd say its almost here, I'd say its really arrived when we see media encoded with 9.1, when the industry as a whole jumps onboard. "upconverting" 7.1 or lower to 9.1 doesn't really count IMO.

\\

I want 9.9. My life needs more bass not more treble!
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post #20 of 30 Old 04-15-2009, 10:22 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by dhgilmer View Post

I want 9.9. My life needs more bass not more treble!

lol What is it with bass and subwoofers anyway? I was just thinking the other day about what makes them so addicting. *shrugs*

I wish at least .2 became common/standard, not because of content but so that we could easily correct placement and such for multiple sub systems.
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post #21 of 30 Old 04-15-2009, 10:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by evilbeaver View Post

I'd say its almost here, I'd say its really arrived when we see media encoded with 9.1, when the industry as a whole jumps onboard. "upconverting" 7.1 or lower to 9.1 doesn't really count IMO.

\\

lol, you will be waiting a long time

90% of BDs are 5.1 still!

Matrixing from 5.1 to 7.1 is pretty good for everyone that wants as much as I do (that would be 99% of the population) and the matrixing beyond that should be pretty damn good for 99% of the population.

This discussion has been argued forever over on the audio/theory/setup forum. Search for 5.1 vs 7.1.

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post #22 of 30 Old 04-15-2009, 10:31 AM
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Originally Posted by evilbeaver View Post

lol What is it with bass and subwoofers anyway? I was just thinking the other day about what makes them so addicting. *shrugs*

I wish at least .2 became common/standard, not because of content but so that we could easily correct placement and such for multiple sub systems.

.2 does not mean 2 subs....nor does .9 mean 9 subs.

I have 4 subs and they are still just .1 of the sytem. Its all about channel content and the .1 just means LFE no matter how many subs you have in room

.2 would be LFE in stereo, each channel streaming different content but it doesnt make much sense to me since low frequencies are not localized anyways so it doesn't matter if the sub is on the left or the right all content from each is going to fill the room and is non localized.

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post #23 of 30 Old 04-15-2009, 10:33 AM
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how about .1.1 with lfe and ultra lfe for the really low stuff.

i remember reading up on something in dolby labs that had a 20.1 or something like that.

it basically had a dome of speakers but its been years and i am not sure if i can find the pictures

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post #24 of 30 Old 04-15-2009, 10:50 AM
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Originally Posted by evilbeaver View Post

lol What is it with bass and subwoofers anyway? I was just thinking the other day about what makes them so addicting. *shrugs*

The lower bass region is the only portion of audio that is multi-sensual, meaning you hear it, and also feel it as well. To me that makes subwoofers and the bass they produce extremely enthralling and very addictive.
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post #25 of 30 Old 04-15-2009, 11:19 AM
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Originally Posted by SlickmisterN View Post

The lower bass region is the only portion of audio that is multi-sensual, meaning you hear it, and also feel it as well. To me that makes subwoofers and the bass they produce extremely enthralling and very addictive.


I agree but on a bigger note it makes you COOL lol.

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post #26 of 30 Old 04-15-2009, 12:16 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by penngray View Post

.2 does not mean 2 subs....nor does .9 mean 9 subs.

I have 4 subs and they are still just .1 of the sytem. Its all about channel content and the .1 just means LFE no matter how many subs you have in room

.2 would be LFE in stereo, each channel streaming different content but it doesnt make much sense to me since low frequencies are not localized anyways so it doesn't matter if the sub is on the left or the right all content from each is going to fill the room and is non localized.


Ah I understand that but how do you correct (distance/time) a multiple sub system off of just .1 without buying extra equipment, thats where .2 and above would come in handy. At least give us extra outputs that are seen independently for measurement and correction purposes.
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post #27 of 30 Old 04-15-2009, 12:19 PM
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Originally Posted by evilbeaver View Post

Ah I understand that but how do you correct (distance/time) a multiple sub system off of just .1, thats where .2 and above would come in handy.

You average it. Take the distance measurements of both and use the average of that.

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post #28 of 30 Old 04-15-2009, 12:22 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by reecew View Post

You average it. Take the distance measurements of both and use the average of that.

Ah I see what that does, it will shift the ideal spot if the distances vary a lot but it probably works good enough. You will want to try to keep the all of the subs distances as similar as possible.
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post #29 of 30 Old 04-15-2009, 12:30 PM
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I can't say that for sure if audyssey can accuarately measure dual sub's. I didnt jump on the badnwagon and buy an audyssey equipped receiver so i never learned about it. But i would take a stab and say yes since you could get the same results with some string and and a tape measure as setting the proper distance of all your speakers. But the whole point of audyssey is to get that in room EQ adjustment it offers. Good question but i would hope audyssey could average multiple sub's because it seems more and more people run multiple sub's than not anymore.

ADD: i replied to your unedited post lol

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post #30 of 30 Old 04-15-2009, 12:47 PM - Thread Starter
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Yeah sorry about that :P I replied too quickly.

I think that method is ideal if all the distances don't vary too greatly. Independant channels would allow greater flexibility for placement. Then again I'm not sure how critical all of this really is;

"I don't think that time alignment at LF has any significance. At 50 Hz. it takes almost 40-50 ms. for the brain to even register that a tone at this frequency is present. What kind of sensitivity could a hearing system have to a few ms time alignment at those frequencies." ~ Earl R. Geddes
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