DIY speaker build using Waveguides...looking for advice - Page 35 - AVS Forum
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post #1021 of 1040 Old 01-20-2010, 06:25 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lennon_68 View Post

Alright, I'm about ready to get going on one of these builds for myself. I've got a pair of AE TD15X's and a pair of B&C DE500's on the way. I've run into a problem with the QSC waveguide I was going to use, they're out of stock and aren't expecting more until mid-March!

What's the next-best (cheap) option? How close is the performance for the next-best? Worth the wait?

Which Waveguide? I have many in the Garage.

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post #1022 of 1040 Old 01-20-2010, 06:27 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZilchLab View Post

Found by AK's Cubby01; adjust center distance and frequency to observe the effect on the forward lobe:

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sourc...LbN24OoeU5TC5g

Very cool, thanks Zilch!

EDIT: hmm...I can not get it to work. I might have to install the newer version of Java and reboot.

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post #1023 of 1040 Old 01-20-2010, 07:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by penngray View Post

Which Waveguide? I have many in the Garage.

I was planning on using the QSC waveguide augerpro's using in the No Quarter design, the QSC PL-000446-GP. Drop me a PM if you have a spare set
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post #1024 of 1040 Old 01-20-2010, 07:36 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lennon_68 View Post

I was planning on using the QSC waveguide augerpro's using in the No Quarter design, the QSC PL-000446-GP. Drop me a PM if you have a spare set

Done!

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post #1025 of 1040 Old 01-20-2010, 08:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by michael hurd View Post

Lennon_68, I am going to be doing an MTM for the LCR, that is correct. T= 18 sound elliptical XT1464 with BMS 4594ND.

I am hoping to have a test box built by April or May... it's been kind of busy up here at times.

Interesting. Where are you planning to cross them over? Doesn't center-to-center spacing of the "mids" become a problem (16" + 12" for the height of the XT1464)? I'm sure you've got it covered, just trying to learn some more
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post #1026 of 1040 Old 01-20-2010, 05:48 PM
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C-C from the woofer to the middle of the horn will be around 14", maybe 14.125 at the outside.

I would like to cross somewhere around the 850-900 hz mark, but not 100% sure until I get to build a mule.

2/3rds of a wavelength at 800 hz is 11.3" and my C-C will be around 14"... I won't be within the guidelines by D'appolito, but I figure close enough to give me decent performance. Distance is between the hf device and the midrange / woofer as per the article I have. ( Speaker Builder 1984

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post #1027 of 1040 Old 02-17-2010, 01:59 PM
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Passive XO and measurement data including vertical polar map beginning here:

http://techtalk.parts-express.com/sh...=215536&page=2

[About $400 each, complete.... ]
LL

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....Crank up the SIGNAL ... cut back the noise....
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post #1028 of 1040 Old 02-17-2010, 02:32 PM
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Those measurements look fantastic, Zilch.

That sets quite the performance bar for $400.
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post #1029 of 1040 Old 02-17-2010, 04:57 PM
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Here's the +/- 10° vertical polar "window" in 5° increments:


And the horizontal polar out to 45°:


LL
LL

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post #1030 of 1040 Old 02-17-2010, 08:37 PM
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Zilch,
How do they sound compared to your Econowaves?
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post #1031 of 1040 Old 02-17-2010, 09:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nichol1997 View Post

How do they sound compared to your Econowaves?

I'm calling them "EconoWave Deluxe."

HF is very similar. I'd have to move them into a decent listening space and A/B them to conclude anything. I prefer the character of the polymide (Kapton?) DE250s over the "Econo" Selenium titaniums, generally.

The LF and MF are substantially improved over the Advent eWaves, for example. I'm stunned by the VLF I'm getting out of these with a Q=2 assist at 30 Hz and a highpass just below there....

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post #1032 of 1040 Old 02-17-2010, 10:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZilchLab View Post

I prefer the character of the polymide (Kapton?) DE250s over the "Econo" Selenium titaniums, generally.

Slightly O/T, but how are the 2407/8/14 drivers? Still looking to try something on the Ewaves you sent me that doesn't require a screw adaptor. Until my 18Sound ND1090, I've never liked any Ti drivers.
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post #1033 of 1040 Old 02-17-2010, 11:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A9X-308 View Post

Slightly O/T, but how are the 2407/8/14 drivers? Still looking to try something on the Ewaves you sent me that doesn't require a screw adaptor. Until my 18Sound ND1090, I've never liked any Ti drivers.

I've only run them on the smaller waveguides, with the JBL filters. As you say, they are not titanium, rather, mylar, and though JBL runs them as low as 1.3 kHz 4th order, they really want to be up closer to 2 kHz....

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post #1034 of 1040 Old 02-17-2010, 11:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZilchLab View Post

I've only run them on the smaller waveguides, with the JBL filters. As you say, they are not titanium, rather, mylar, and though JBL runs them as low as 1.3 kHz 4th order, they really want to be up closer to 2 kHz....

Cheers. 2k is not unreasonable for the idea I have. These are BMS rebadges or licensed designs aren't they?

I mainly use mylars; DE250, DE25, CP380M or Al in my Emilars.

Having a read of the PE Schumacher thread now.
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post #1035 of 1040 Old 02-17-2010, 11:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A9X-308 View Post

Cheers. 2k is not unreasonable for the idea I have. These are BMS rebadges or licensed designs aren't they?

2407, yes. 2408, I dunno. 2414, probably not...

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post #1036 of 1040 Old 02-18-2010, 07:13 AM - Thread Starter
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My HPR-152 clones are finally ready for measuring and listening.

I will create a thread on them specifically but this thread has opened up a new world and I love it.

Zilch, Augerpro have been awesome (many others too). Im going to use the HOLMimpluse software to do the measurements, so its a learning curve for me and there are going to be lots of questions in the DIYaudio.com forum on that product.

Zilch thanks for that link too....anything and everything helps me understand the XO requirements better.

Currently I have the Celestion 1425 CD and the BMS 4550 CD in each speaker using the TD12Ms as the woofer.

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post #1037 of 1040 Old 02-18-2010, 09:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZilchLab View Post

I'm calling them "EconoWave Deluxe."

So do they sound 4 times as good as the dc300 D220ti
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post #1038 of 1040 Old 02-18-2010, 12:29 PM
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Originally Posted by stgdz View Post

So do they sound 4 times as good as the dc300 D220ti

We have quite stepped in it with this combo....

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post #1039 of 1040 Old 02-18-2010, 03:45 PM
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I am under the impression that JBL bought a license to manufacture, but when it came to the diaphragms they could not get them right, so they still source them from BMS. Interestingly the configuration of the 2408h seems to be like nothing that BMS produces. The BMS drivers have the diaphragms on the back of the motor.
the BMS 4540ND is Ewave compatible, and available at US Speaker.
Is the 2414 just a 1" dome? I've not seen the diaphragm in that one.




Quote:
Originally Posted by A9X-308 View Post

Slightly O/T, but how are the 2407/8/14 drivers? Still looking to try something on the Ewaves you sent me that doesn't require a screw adaptor. Until my 18Sound ND1090, I've never liked any Ti drivers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZilchLab View Post

I've only run them on the smaller waveguides, with the JBL filters. As you say, they are not titanium, rather, mylar, and though JBL runs them as low as 1.3 kHz 4th order, they really want to be up closer to 2 kHz....

Quote:
Originally Posted by A9X-308 View Post

Cheers. 2k is not unreasonable for the idea I have. These are BMS rebadges or licensed designs aren't they?

I mainly use mylars; DE250, DE25, CP380M or Al in my Emilars.

Having a read of the PE Schumacher thread now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZilchLab View Post

2407, yes. 2408, I dunno. 2414, probably not...


Regards,
Dan
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post #1040 of 1040 Old 02-18-2010, 07:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZilchLab View Post

We have quite stepped in it with this combo....

anyway you could plot the graphs in an overlay on each other comparing the original to the deluxe at normal and the most severe axis angles?

Did you ever try the de250's with the jbl waveguide?

Love all the data that you have got Zilch!
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