DIY speaker build using Waveguides...looking for advice - Page 7 - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #181 of 1040 Old 05-07-2009, 11:51 AM
Member
 
NoBS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 158
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

phase alignment through the crossover region has been shown with the simple test of reversing polarity and observing the complete suckout at the crossover frequency.

baffle step problems would show up in frequency response, which has also been shown.

i'm not sure what you are getting at.

For the 3rd time.....

No one has posted gated energy/time (MLS) measurements of their completed speakers. Those silly little screen shots from a DEQ or taken using REW are all but worthless.

And as far as I can see no one has designed a minimum phase crossover using MLS measurements of their drivers mounted in their baffles. That's the correct way to design a passive crossover. FWIW, augerpro pointed this out in post #141 and again in his last post.

As a result the designs in that thread aren't much more sophisticated than car audio systems where generic filter design software is used...
NoBS is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #182 of 1040 Old 05-07-2009, 11:55 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
LTD02's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 16,137
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 205 Post(s)
Liked: 921
some good posts by wayne parham over at the econowave thread:

http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/sho...&postcount=562

http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/sho...&postcount=879

http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/sho...&postcount=881

http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/sho...postcount=1775

http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/sho...postcount=2106

http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/sho...postcount=4360

http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/sho...postcount=4383

Listen. It's All Good.
LTD02 is offline  
post #183 of 1040 Old 05-07-2009, 12:02 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Addicted Member
 
penngray's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Florida
Posts: 26,779
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 29
This is a good opinion to me.....



Quote:


Vertical pattern

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I have a lot of respect for Earl and have visited with him several times over the years. Our design philosophoies are very similar, so much so that five years ago I considered building an elliptical horn just like what Earl often talks about. I make wood horns on a CNC machine so I could have easily made them. I eventually decided to do my own, but it is similar to what Geddes describes in many ways. We build similar speakers and embrace similar design philosophies, with a few exceptions.

The thing is, and I've said it many times, is that I think it is a mistake to match a 90 degree round horn to a direct radiating midwoofer because of the vertical nulls. I won't restate the reasons as I think everyone reading this understands them. They're written elsewhere in this thread. Even Earl has admitted it would be better to reduce vertical pattern and to decrease the vertical distance, both things an asymmetrical horn makes possible.

You say "why does it matter" and my response would be it matters because it is an improvement. One of the main advantages of uniform directivity is spectral balance in the reverberent field. Reflections from the floor and ceiling contribute to the reverberent field.

Not only that, but Earl admitted himself that there were applications where people had installed his speakers in clubs high on the walls, avove the listeners. This means the nulls aren't "at the ankles" but rather throughout the entire listening area. Earl should have informed them to mount the speakers upside down, in my opinion. It appears he simply overlooked or ignored the vertical pattern. While I agree that uniform response is more important along the horizontal plane, as I've said before, it doesn't matter much if you're sitting in a vertical null.

This is not intended as an insult. I respect Earl a lot and his speakers sound good. But I must admit that I don't think they sound better than other similar speakers with good horns. I prefer those with asymmetrical horns, and I can definitely hear a difference when I move from sitting to standing and move around the room. I think those with good asymmetrical horns just sound better, less phasey and more natural.


It is not "open-minded" to reject knowledge - Bob Lee
penngray is offline  
post #184 of 1040 Old 05-07-2009, 12:04 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Addicted Member
 
penngray's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Florida
Posts: 26,779
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 29
Other snips important to the discussion

Quote:


Voice coil alignment

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Just a quick note about voice coil alignment and its relationship to the forward axis.

The radiation impedance of a horn is different than a direct radiator, so voice coil alignment between one of each usually results in misalignment of the impulse response.

What you usually want is the horn tweeter acoustic center a little bit behind the midwoofer. The exact positon depends on the acoustic impedance of each and the crossover frequency, but as mentioned earlier, you can massage it a bit in the crossover. It's usually within a couple inches using 1" compression horns and high-efficiency midwoofers, the kind of parts we're usually using in speakers like these.

It is also worth noting that delay from physical offset is not the same as crossover delay. Physical spacing creates a fixed delay, where the band-splitting filters in a crossover produce a delay proportional to frequency. So it is best to space the drivers appropriately or at least "in the ballpark" to begin with. But as long as the overlap band is not large, i.e. crossover slope is not too low, then the crossover delay can be used to ones advantage, fine-tuning the phase between drivers and shifting the null angles to put them where you want them to be.


It is not "open-minded" to reject knowledge - Bob Lee
penngray is offline  
post #185 of 1040 Old 05-07-2009, 12:05 PM
Member
 
NoBS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 158
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10

I guess the concept of minimum phase crossovers designed using MLS measurements of both the woofer and tweeter mounted in the baffle where they'll be used, escapes you....
NoBS is offline  
post #186 of 1040 Old 05-07-2009, 12:06 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Addicted Member
 
penngray's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Florida
Posts: 26,779
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 29
Quote:


As a result the designs in that thread aren't much more sophisticated than car audio systems where generic filter design software is used...


Thats a discredit to the work Wayne Parham has done, again I disagree that the econo-waveguide thread is a bunch basement speaker building wannabees.

Lets just move beyond what you think about the build, is that okay?

It is not "open-minded" to reject knowledge - Bob Lee
penngray is offline  
post #187 of 1040 Old 05-07-2009, 12:08 PM
AVS Special Member
 
catapult's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 3,824
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoBS View Post

No one has posted gated energy/time (MLS) measurements of their completed speakers. Those silly little screen shots from a DEQ or taken using REW are all but worthless.

NoBS, I still haven't read the thread but REW has gating now and its swept sine (chirp) signal is arguably better than MLS for generating an impulse response in a noisy environment. Just saying....

Brandon, as far as measuring reflections (HOM) inside the horn, looking at the impulse response is pretty good. Paul W did some before and after adding fish foam and you could see that it cleaned up the impulse some. I suspect but don't know for sure that the screw-in adapter he was using, with its long straight section, was creating some weird reflections at the throat and mucking up the impulse.

Dennis H
catapult is offline  
post #188 of 1040 Old 05-07-2009, 12:18 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Addicted Member
 
penngray's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Florida
Posts: 26,779
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 29
Back too a pervious question.....


What is the difference between screw on vs bolt on CDs?

It is not "open-minded" to reject knowledge - Bob Lee
penngray is offline  
post #189 of 1040 Old 05-07-2009, 12:39 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
LTD02's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 16,137
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 205 Post(s)
Liked: 921
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoBS View Post

I guess the concept of minimum phase crossovers designed using MLS measurements of both the woofer and tweeter mounted in the baffle where they'll be used, escapes you....

lol, i wasn't talking to you.

Listen. It's All Good.
LTD02 is offline  
post #190 of 1040 Old 05-07-2009, 01:02 PM
AVS Special Member
 
catapult's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 3,824
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by penngray View Post

Back too a pervious question.....


What is the difference between screw on vs bolt on CDs?

Like I said, I'm just guessing, but the screw-on has a fairly long, straight tube. If you accept Geddes's OS equation as the holy grail for lowering reflections/HOMs/distortion, that doesn't work. The tube, which ends up being part of the horn throat, should start flaring immediately. Try talking through a toilet paper tube to hear the effect. Now that's the theory -- who knows how audible it is in the real world.

Dennis H
catapult is offline  
post #191 of 1040 Old 05-07-2009, 01:04 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Addicted Member
 
penngray's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Florida
Posts: 26,779
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 29
Phase, delays and offset baffle spacing

It is not "open-minded" to reject knowledge - Bob Lee
penngray is offline  
post #192 of 1040 Old 05-07-2009, 01:09 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Addicted Member
 
penngray's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Florida
Posts: 26,779
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by catapult View Post

Like I said, I'm just guessing, but the screw-on has a fairly long, straight tube. If you accept Geddes's OS equation as the holy grail for lowering reflections/HOMs/distortion, that doesn't work. The tube, which ends up being part of the horn throat, should start flaring immediately. Try talking through a toilet paper tube to hear the effect. Now that's the theory -- who knows how audible it is in the real world.

Thanks. I read that theory but I wonder what the true difference in length difference is and in all the D220 measurements the screw-in types do not show differences in distortion.

It is not "open-minded" to reject knowledge - Bob Lee
penngray is offline  
post #193 of 1040 Old 05-07-2009, 01:09 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
LTD02's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 16,137
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 205 Post(s)
Liked: 921
the threads are on the outside and screws into the horn threads. as a result the driver sits right in the mouth of the horn. there is no long tube.



edit: my bad, i see what you were saying now...

Listen. It's All Good.
LTD02 is offline  
post #194 of 1040 Old 05-07-2009, 01:13 PM
AVS Special Member
 
augerpro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Denver, Colorado
Posts: 1,700
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Liked: 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by catapult View Post

Brandon, as far as measuring reflections (HOM) inside the horn, looking at the impulse response is pretty good. Paul W did some before and after adding fish foam and you could see that it cleaned up the impulse some. I suspect but don't know for sure that the screw-in adapter he was using, with its long straight section, was creating some weird reflections at the throat and mucking up the impulse.

I think I sort of remember that now. Yeah I agree, this is why I mentioned that a CSD of the MLS might be ok, plots the time element of the impulse, which just are not that intuitive for me, unless the reflections are very bad.

On a couple of Penn's points> why don't more people make a "proper" Geddes type WG? I think the biggest thing is 18 months ago, not much more than a few industry pro's knew Geddes work very well. After he came to diyaudio I think a lot more people are becoming familiar with his work. So I think you will start seeing more people use his principles to build real WG's. Just a matter of time I think.

On Wayne P's point about vertical directivity, I remember the whole original debate and to me, it was sort of a mountain out of a molehill, in the discussion as a whole, and the actual technical facts. ANY speaker with two non-coincident drivers, say a woofer and tweeter in a simple 2-way, will form a null in the crossover area as you move vertically from about the mid point of the speaker to above the speaker.

Say you are facing the speaker and at a 30 degree angle above it's mid point looking down at the speaker with your microphone in hand. Basically you have flat response of the woofer at lower frequencies, then as you get around the crossover area a null forms, then the response bounces back as the tweeter takes over. Pretty simple concept right? Well, Wayne uses a horn that is very rectangular, for illustration, say 12 inches wide, but 4 inches tall. This has a very high directivity in the vertical plane due to its small height (versus the deep wall angle). Wayne would rather that we have the flat response of the woofer, then the null forming in the crossover region, then due to the high directivity, a tweeter response that doesn't "bounce back". Why this is better is beyond me. In one you have full response, a null, then full response again. On Wayne's you full response, then a null, and then more of the null all through the tweeter response. In neither example do you have flat response through the whole spectrum, but at least with the standard first example you have a null of a certain width-that the designer can adjust and minimize. With Wayne's it just full response then nothing. How do you balance that? How is that smooth from a power response perspective?

Which brings me to this post:

Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

the first is the on-axis hole that occurs with axial symmetric waveguides. you'll notice that the on-axis measurement has about a 5-7db suckout around 6khz. geddes' answer is to listen off-axis. that is fine, but not being able to listen to speakers on-axis is a little strange to lots of folks.

a second reason is that for a vertical arrangement of speaker and waveguide, an axial symmetric waveguide cannot be matched in directivity vertically.

a third, but minor, reason is that large axial-symmetic horns push the drivers quite far apart, which limits the vertical listening window.

The first is a real concern. The third is a real concern. But the second is bunk, not just because of my above explanation either. How can a round, 12" waveguide be a poorer response match in any direction to a round, 12" woofer than a rectangular, 12" x 4" horn? It doesn't make sense.

How important are the other two? Well the first doesn't concern me much personally. There will always be uneven frequency response with nulls in some areas and peaks in others. Where they are, what direction, what frequency, and how big they are determine whether they demand a solution or not. The on axis hole is quite small, even if we look at it as power radiated versus area, as it's really a narrow cone shaped dip right? The majority of speaker designs make much bigger and more detrimental sins regarding power response (frequency response plotted over many angles in front of a speaker).

The third issue is a real issue and demands a solution. One solution is to cross low, and this is what Geddes does. I must say though, that it's funny this argument relies on this issue causing high vertical directivity and it being bad. Yet Wayne's argument is that Geddes design isn't directive enough vertically. Hmmm which is right, can't have both...

Now an elliptical waveguide would solve both problems, Geddes understands this would be the ideal form of his idea, but he doesn't have enough time/interest/money to fabricate it. Maybe AE will.

One last point I'd like to make concerning all this directivity and smooth response. For the most part, the width of the mouth determines the horn/WG's cutoff frequency. In general, at frequencies below the cutoff frequency the response flares dramatically. In other words, it's best to have the response down quite a bit before you hit this point. This is one reason why I don't care much for these high aspect rectangular horns, with the 15" width and 4.5" height. I don't have a calculator, but at 4.5" it probably loses pattern control -flares- at 3-4khz. If you are crossing lower than this you could actually have quite low vertical directivity in this area, and the response would be very ragged to boot.
augerpro is offline  
post #195 of 1040 Old 05-07-2009, 01:43 PM
AVS Special Member
 
augerpro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Denver, Colorado
Posts: 1,700
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Liked: 27
This might be worth investigation:




Apparently it's cheap. Makes me curious about the other new horns from JBL.

http://htguide.com/forum/showpost.ph...8&postcount=29
augerpro is offline  
post #196 of 1040 Old 05-07-2009, 02:10 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Addicted Member
 
penngray's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Florida
Posts: 26,779
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 29
Quote:
edit: my bad, i see what you were saying now...

yeah, the tube part is where the screw is on the CD.....correct? but are the screw in horns maybe shorter to compensate for that?

It is not "open-minded" to reject knowledge - Bob Lee
penngray is offline  
post #197 of 1040 Old 05-07-2009, 02:11 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Addicted Member
 
penngray's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Florida
Posts: 26,779
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by augerpro View Post

This might be worth investigation:




Apparently it's cheap. Makes me curious about the other new horns from JBL.

http://htguide.com/forum/showpost.ph...8&postcount=29

Neo Dan needs to create a thread here

It is not "open-minded" to reject knowledge - Bob Lee
penngray is offline  
post #198 of 1040 Old 05-07-2009, 02:23 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Addicted Member
 
penngray's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Florida
Posts: 26,779
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by augerpro View Post

I think I sort of remember that now. ......

Augerpro, thanks for continuing on with this thread....I just learned something from you post. It took me 5 times to read it but I understand a little more now.

It is not "open-minded" to reject knowledge - Bob Lee
penngray is offline  
post #199 of 1040 Old 05-07-2009, 02:28 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
LTD02's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 16,137
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 205 Post(s)
Liked: 921
this is what i was trying to get at:

http://www.audioroundtable.com/PiSpe...ges/22624.html

Listen. It's All Good.
LTD02 is offline  
post #200 of 1040 Old 05-07-2009, 02:30 PM
AVS Special Member
 
catapult's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 3,824
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Quote:
in all the D220 measurements the screw-in types do not show differences in distortion.

Reflections in the throat/horn don't give you harmonic distortion like most people measure, ie new frequencies being created. It's more like comb filtering where some frequencies get boosted and some get nulled out depending on whether the reflections are in phase or out of phase with the main signal. You'd probably need a pretty hi-rez graph to see it in the frequency response.

Dennis H
catapult is offline  
post #201 of 1040 Old 05-07-2009, 02:35 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Addicted Member
 
penngray's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Florida
Posts: 26,779
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by catapult View Post

Reflections in the throat/horn don't give you harmonic distortion like most people measure, ie new frequencies being created. It's more like comb filtering where some frequencies get boosted and some get nulled out depending on whether the reflections are in phase or out of phase with the main signal. You'd probably need a pretty hi-rez graph to see it in the frequency response.

So it could have zero problems if Im sitting at Position X and Position Y could be a mess.

It is not "open-minded" to reject knowledge - Bob Lee
penngray is offline  
post #202 of 1040 Old 05-07-2009, 02:38 PM
AVS Special Member
 
NEO Dan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: North East Ohio
Posts: 2,984
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Nice post Brandon. I'm trying to get some of the 354267-001's to test but they are currently oos:

Thanks for the tip on the 12", I had partially resigned myself to looking at 10"& 8" drivers. Any interest in taking some measurements of them???

Regards,
Dan
NEO Dan is offline  
post #203 of 1040 Old 05-07-2009, 02:57 PM
AVS Special Member
 
catapult's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 3,824
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by penngray View Post

So it could have zero problems if Im sitting at Position X and Position Y could be a mess.

Yeah although, if the reflections are happening right at the throat, it would probably be mucked up wherever you sat. Probably some of that 'harsh and splashy' sound Wayne talks about. But again, I'm just guessing the screw-ons might tend to be worse in that way. No proof whatsoever and they obviously don't sound too terrible or there wouldn't be so many people who like the sound.

http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/sho...postcount=4360

Dennis H
catapult is offline  
post #204 of 1040 Old 05-07-2009, 03:11 PM
AVS Special Member
 
augerpro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Denver, Colorado
Posts: 1,700
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Liked: 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by NEO Dan View Post

Nice post Brandon. I'm trying to get some of the 354267-001's to test but they are currently oos:

Thanks for the tip on the 12", I had partially resigned myself to looking at 10"& 8" drivers. Any interest in taking some measurements of them???

Let me think about it...if you had an interest to use the B&C DE12 (mylar) and we could agree on a horn, I may take measurements AND design a crossover, since this is a high quality, budget design I've been interested in trying. It would be great for a buddy of mine, and I think a lot of people in DIY would like it too. I'd also like to use some 30 ppi foam like Geddes does.
augerpro is offline  
post #205 of 1040 Old 05-07-2009, 03:18 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Addicted Member
 
penngray's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Florida
Posts: 26,779
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by catapult View Post

....No proof whatsoever and they obviously don't sound too terrible or there wouldn't be so many people who like the sound.

http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/sho...postcount=4360

Yeah, there seems to be a lot of followers of that design. I never like something that reads like its too good to be true, something has to give.

I have the Pyle waveguide on order with the DE220, I will find out myself in time.

Just need to get the TD12M drivers, there is a 3 week delay on those.

It is not "open-minded" to reject knowledge - Bob Lee
penngray is offline  
post #206 of 1040 Old 05-07-2009, 03:46 PM
AVS Special Member
 
NEO Dan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: North East Ohio
Posts: 2,984
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by augerpro View Post

Let me think about it...if you had an interest to use the B&C DE12 (mylar) and we could agree on a horn, I may take measurements AND design a crossover, since this is a high quality, budget design I've been interested in trying. It would be great for a buddy of mine, and I think a lot of people in DIY would like it too. I'd also like to use some 30 ppi foam like Geddes does.

Interesting proposition....

What are you looking to pair the ~$70 DE12 with? Is there a better bolt on for $30?
The JBL 2408's are $92 + $10 for the JBL "WG"

Regards,
Dan
NEO Dan is offline  
post #207 of 1040 Old 05-07-2009, 04:25 PM
AVS Special Member
 
augerpro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Denver, Colorado
Posts: 1,700
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Liked: 27
Well the PAudio PH220 I've mentioned before seems ok. I'm trying to find some candidates from JBL now that you piqued my interest. No screw on though, the adaptors I've found suck. And I don't want any high aspect rectangular, or small mouth widths.

I was actually planning on the B&C DE10, but I'm looking for just a bit better behavior at the low end, I'd like to cross around 1.5khz. Pending actual measurements of the FaitalPro woofer of course.

Another thing that may get me to pull out my test baffle would be if Penn sends a TD12M and we can somehow get a hold of a B&C 12NW76. Then we have two top of the line and one budget woofer for direct comparison. I have a pair of B&C 15NW76's but that wouldn't be apples to apples. Cool woofer though.
augerpro is offline  
post #208 of 1040 Old 05-07-2009, 05:56 PM
AVS Special Member
 
mayhem13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: nj
Posts: 3,948
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Liked: 12
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showt...hreadid=143506

There's an interesting project with a very happy ending!
mayhem13 is offline  
post #209 of 1040 Old 05-07-2009, 06:14 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Addicted Member
 
penngray's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Florida
Posts: 26,779
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by mayhem13 View Post

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showt...hreadid=143506

There's an interesting project with a very happy ending!

That is a cool project with an AMAZING FR plot, I wonder what the Polar response is on it?? I really like my PHL mid range drivers so I have no doubt PHL drivers do amazing things. The crossover would be perfect with the TD12Ms I have coming. Maybe I will research that HF setup too.

EDIT:


TD-385 Horn is $199 @ usspeakers
Beyma CP744/ti is $349 @ usspeakers
PHL 3003 is $340 @ usspeakers

Out of this projects price range...it better be a great 2-way design for those prices!!

It is not "open-minded" to reject knowledge - Bob Lee
penngray is offline  
post #210 of 1040 Old 05-07-2009, 06:59 PM
AVS Special Member
 
NEO Dan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: North East Ohio
Posts: 2,984
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 12
PHL 3003 is $340 @ E-Speakers

then there's the pricing on these


Regards,
Dan
NEO Dan is offline  
Reply DIY Speakers and Subs

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off