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post #1 of 59 Old 04-20-2009, 06:39 PM - Thread Starter
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As the title says, this is a little different than your normal subwoofer build. It's not your ideal design/build for massive amounts of low-end bass, however, it does/did pretty well with the mid-bass region. This sub has a lot of sentimental value to me

To start, my dad and I built this back in 1995 (I was 13). Back then, I thought Bose was a decent speaker builder and saw an acrylic Acoustimass module sitting out on display. At 13, I knew I would never be able to buy a complete system from Bose due to the high prices and my $7 a week allowance (when I wasn't in trouble), so I asked my dad if we could build one.



We used 3/4" plywood and 6 1/2" woofers (vs 5 1/4 that Bose used). At the time I couldn't just get on the 1nt3rw3bz and order parts, so we were stuck with what we could find local at a reasonable price. We ended up using some Radio Shack "Subwoofers" and had to improvise on the front port... For that we used some plastic martini glasses and the top/lid to some hair spray (and lots of glue). We picked up some crossovers from Radio Shack as well. Here are some pictures from when we first built it.



I was 13 in this pic (thank God my parents got me braces!)


Finished in 1995




Although the port looked decent, it was HORRIBLE for sound and would lead to LOTS of port turbulance. This helped make the sub extreme sweet spots.... You'd have to be VERY careful on placement, or all you would get is port noise. I also found the crossovers we used vibrated as we mounted them straight to the wood. With some of the higher bass tones, I could hear these things just vibrating against the wood like crazy.

The port we made: Not ideal, but I didn't know better then.




Now, it's 2009 and I was listening to some music on my computer and though, "man, I would really like some bass to go along with these tunes" and asked my dad to send me my subwoofer from home. I thought, that I could cut out the back, add a plate amp (BASH 300S) and replace the port with a Precision Port flared port tube and it would sound a whole lot better and I wouldn't need to find a way to power the sub. Well, as lovely as Fed Ex is, they manage to drop the box from high enough to do some damage, so now I'll be sanding the entire thing down, filling and refinishing.

Damage




How the rest of it looked. When my dad refinished his Klipsch LaScala's, he didn't put the emblems back on so I took one. I'll leave it off this time around.





When I cut the back out, I knew I would have to go through a crossover, but didn't think I would get hung up as bad as I did. It did cause me to remove more material than I wanted to in that area, but not enough that the amp could not seal.... Because I am picky, I am going to build that area up and sand it so it is straight and smooth. I did end up damaging the speakers during the process, but I sort of expected to replace them anyway as I'm sure there is a much better speaker available than the Radio Shack ones we used.

So here is where I am now. My plate amp fits nicely and I'm looking to replace the busted speakers with these Vifa woofers. I am also looking to replace the port with a Precision Port 3" flared (both ends) port tube. Lastly, this time around, I'm going to use some Liquid Nails on all the corners in the inside of the box to ensure there is no air leakage anywhere.











Now here come the questions...

- Does anyone see any reason not to go with the Vifa speakers I picked out?

- Is there a better suit for this application?

- Anyone have any ideas to throw in?!

-Jason

The "Z" Family Theater - Almost "complete".
-Not your average sub build
-Klipsch Sonosub Build

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post #2 of 59 Old 04-20-2009, 07:40 PM
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wow...

father son diy. no beating that.

what you have there is called an 8th order triple reflex band pass enclosure.

bose is one of the few companies that used it.

amazingly, i was able to find a calculator for you (complete with instructions).

anybody who comments on the sound quality of this design or of bose products, clearly doesn't understand the whole point of this thread.

good luck with your build.

EDIT: this guy has a simulator for 8th order bandpass that you can download. click on "download link" on the left side. http://www.geocities.com/f4ier/newsubsim.htm

 

8obp.zip 135.41796875k . file

Listen. It's All Good.
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post #3 of 59 Old 04-21-2009, 06:54 AM
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Wow that's pretty cool. Despite your port not working, correctly, I do give an A for effort.

YID DIY
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post #4 of 59 Old 04-21-2009, 07:21 AM
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I'm 2 years older than you and I still do those father/son projects. A lot of fun, aren't they?

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Originally Posted by vasyachkin
Even i, the genius, only vaguely understand what i am saying here.
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post #5 of 59 Old 04-21-2009, 08:03 AM
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I was just thinking about 1995. At the time we paid $45 a month to use a gopher BBS called VA-Connect. (Blue and white on the old procomm plus) They got a conduit to the internet that you could pay $90 extra for 5 hours usage a month.



I think at the time I had a Yorx brand stereo and it was the greatest thing since sliced bread.

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Even i, the genius, only vaguely understand what i am saying here.
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post #6 of 59 Old 04-21-2009, 08:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LHD21 View Post

I was just thinking about 1995. At the time we paid $45 a month to use a gopher BBS called VA-Connect. (Blue and white on the old procomm plus) They got a conduit to the internet that you could pay $90 extra for 5 hours usage a month.



I think at the time I had a Yorx brand stereo and it was the greatest thing since sliced bread.

lol The good old days of 3600 baud modems and procom plus.
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post #7 of 59 Old 04-21-2009, 08:12 AM
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Neat build by the way. My first DIY was a sub for my first car that I made with my dad around 1992.

Good times.
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post #8 of 59 Old 04-21-2009, 08:13 AM
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This looks like a great project. I'm sure you and your dad will both love seeing it upgraded a little.
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post #9 of 59 Old 04-21-2009, 09:25 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

wow...

father son diy. no beating that.

what you have there is called an 8th order triple reflex band pass enclosure.

bose is one of the few companies that used it.

amazingly, i was able to find a calculator for you (complete with instructions).

anybody who comments on the sound quality of this design or of bose products, clearly doesn't understand the whole point of this thread.

good luck with your build.

EDIT: this guy has a simulator for 8th order bandpass that you can download. click on "download link" on the left side. http://www.geocities.com/f4ier/newsubsim.htm

Thanks for the additional info!! I'm glad you guys all see were I'm coming from. It's not a horrible design and it generally sounds decent for what I'm planning to use it for. I always loved how it turned out (build quality/finish), but learned a few things in the process.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LHD21 View Post

I'm 2 years older than you and I still do those father/son projects. A lot of fun, aren't they?

Yup! I don't get to do them much anymore. I haven't lived in the same state as my dad since 2001. He felt horrible for the damage happening during shipping, so he wants to come out and help me finish the wood once everything is fitted and ready to go.

Quote:
Originally Posted by k_t View Post

Neat build by the way. My first DIY was a sub for my first car that I made with my dad around 1992.

Good times.

This was my first sub build My dad and I later build (1999) a sub for my car at the time using two Cerwin Vega, Vega Series 12" subs (400w rms per sub) in a 5 cubic ft box and two 4" (x12" IIRC) Precision Ports flared on both ends. It definitely produced enough bass (I'll have to scan a photo in later) to make my eyes, head, and throat hurt. I eventually traded them for an engine.

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Originally Posted by dhgilmer View Post

This looks like a great project. I'm sure you and your dad will both love seeing it upgraded a little.

Thanks, I hope I can do it justice!

Can I assume the Vifa woofer choice I made is a good one? Any other suitable woofers out there?

-Jason

The "Z" Family Theater - Almost "complete".
-Not your average sub build
-Klipsch Sonosub Build

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post #10 of 59 Old 04-21-2009, 11:34 AM
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Thats a pretty cool build! I remember seeing the same acrylic sub at Dayton's sitting right next to the 901's. My dad ended up buying a set of AM5's, the first day that he wasnt home, I took the sub apart. At the time it sounded really good. He just liked it because the sub was "Unobtrusive"
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post #11 of 59 Old 04-21-2009, 11:34 AM
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How much power can the Vifa's handle?
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post #12 of 59 Old 04-21-2009, 12:02 PM - Thread Starter
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http://www.parts-express.com/pe/show...number=297-305


Power handling: 70 watts RMS/100 watts max * Voice coil diameter: 1-1/4" * Voice coil inductance: .55 mH * Nominal impedance: 8 ohms * DC resistance: 5.8 ohms * Frequency response: 37-5,000 Hz * Fs: 37 Hz * SPL: 88 dB 1W/1m * Vas: 1.23 cu. ft. * Qms: 1.55 * Qes: .45 * Qts: .35 * Xmax: 4.0mm * Net weight: 2-3/4 lbs. * Dimensions: Overall Diameter: 6-5/8", Cutout Diameter: 5-3/4", Mounting Depth: 3", Magnet Diameter: 3-9/16", Magnet Height: 1-1/8".

-Jason

The "Z" Family Theater - Almost "complete".
-Not your average sub build
-Klipsch Sonosub Build

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post #13 of 59 Old 04-21-2009, 12:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yamahaSHO View Post

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/show...number=297-305


Power handling: 70 watts RMS/100 watts max * Voice coil diameter: 1-1/4" * Voice coil inductance: .55 mH * Nominal impedance: 8 ohms * DC resistance: 5.8 ohms * Frequency response: 37-5,000 Hz * Fs: 37 Hz * SPL: 88 dB 1W/1m * Vas: 1.23 cu. ft. * Qms: 1.55 * Qes: .45 * Qts: .35 * Xmax: 4.0mm * Net weight: 2-3/4 lbs. * Dimensions: Overall Diameter: 6-5/8", Cutout Diameter: 5-3/4", Mounting Depth: 3", Magnet Diameter: 3-9/16", Magnet Height: 1-1/8".

Just be careful with the gain knob. 300 watts is quite a bit more than the vifas need

But that box may affect their power handling, someone smarter than meed needs to weigh in on that.
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post #14 of 59 Old 04-21-2009, 12:44 PM - Thread Starter
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The old Radio Shack subs handled 40rms/80w peak and they did okay, but I could definitely pop those suckers if I had wanted to (I tested the amp out with them). This definitely won't be an ear shattering sub, but I think it will have decent output. I was aiming at a sub amp that not only fit the back, but would give me some "headroom"

-Jason

The "Z" Family Theater - Almost "complete".
-Not your average sub build
-Klipsch Sonosub Build

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post #15 of 59 Old 04-21-2009, 12:52 PM
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This looks like a fun sub to build, lots of chambers and pretty go frequence response out of 6.5 speakers. Not a HT sub but fun even with out the DIY/Father-son side to it.
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post #16 of 59 Old 04-27-2009, 11:37 AM - Thread Starter
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I just placed an order for the speakers last night along with some foam to seal the woofer chamber. I've been trying to order the flared port for about two weeks now and the site keeps messing up. I sent them another e-mail... I'm ordering the Precision Port from the link given on the site as I want one without mounting holes.

I think I may try the sub out somewhere else now... If it sounds decent, I may get a receiver for the living room and add it to my RSX-3's I have for a hidden surround sound. I don't know if I can get the wife to approve though since she's letting me do theater in the basement. We'll see...

-Jason

The "Z" Family Theater - Almost "complete".
-Not your average sub build
-Klipsch Sonosub Build

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post #17 of 59 Old 04-27-2009, 01:20 PM
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For some odd reason, I cannot view any of the pictures past the first one.
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post #18 of 59 Old 04-27-2009, 01:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yamahaSHO View Post

I just placed an order for the speakers last night along with some foam to seal the woofer chamber. I've been trying to order the flared port for about two weeks now and the site keeps messing up. I sent them another e-mail... I'm ordering the Precision Port from the link given on the site as I want one without mounting holes.

I think I may try the sub out somewhere else now... If it sounds decent, I may get a receiver for the living room and add it to my RSX-3's I have for a hidden surround sound. I don't know if I can get the wife to approve though since she's letting me do theater in the basement. We'll see...

Play the sentimental card. It was something you and your dad did. Surely she can't say no to that? Maybe pull a leg hair or something to tear up a little
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post #19 of 59 Old 04-27-2009, 01:37 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by filtor1 View Post

For some odd reason, I cannot view any of the pictures past the first one.

Hmmm... That's odd as they're all hosted from the same place. Have you tried right-clicking and "show picture"?


Quote:
Originally Posted by dhgilmer View Post

Play the sentimental card. It was something you and your dad did. Surely she can't say no to that? Maybe pull a leg hair or something to tear up a little

Haha... I'm trying to figure out something. I wish I could find a good 5 channel amp (don't need much power) that I can hook up to my HTPC and have it on auto-sense turn on. She doesn't want to mess with a receiver for sound.

-Jason

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-Not your average sub build
-Klipsch Sonosub Build

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post #20 of 59 Old 04-27-2009, 03:42 PM
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Yeah, I tried to show picture. Yours aren't the only ones that are random. I need to figure out what has changed so I can get back into the swing of things. I wonder if it is an issue with IE. I will keep trying.
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post #21 of 59 Old 04-27-2009, 05:28 PM
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Here's a trick you can try on the dents in the wood--place a drop of water on the dent, then place a damp rag over the dent and hold a clothes iron on the damp rag. The moisture will cause the wood to swell. You may need to use some glue later, but for now you can at least get the dented wood to return to its normal size, then see if any glue is needed.

Worst case, you may need to cut out a small damaged piece and cut a new small "plug" to glue in its place. If you have to take it that far, you will probably need to sand and refinish the entire enclosure, because it is doubtful that you can get the finish on the new piece to match the old finish. If you sand and refinish the entire enclosure, the new piece can be made to blend right in.

Hope this helps.

I think it is really cool that you still have this sub that you built with your dad when you were 13. I wouldn't let it go either.
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post #22 of 59 Old 04-27-2009, 05:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by filtor1 View Post

Yeah, I tried to show picture. Yours aren't the only ones that are random. I need to figure out what has changed so I can get back into the swing of things. I wonder if it is an issue with IE. I will keep trying.

Almost certainly IE.

Try deleting your temporary internet files--
Tools
Internet Options
Make sure the General tab is selected at the top
press Delete... key
Make sure Temporart Internet Files box has a check mark in it
press Delete
close dialog box
reload the web page (refresh)

Hope this helps.
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post #23 of 59 Old 04-27-2009, 07:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PassingInterest View Post

Almost certainly IE.

Try deleting your temporary internet files--
Tools
Internet Options
Make sure the General tab is selected at the top
press Delete... key
Make sure Temporart Internet Files box has a check mark in it
press Delete
close dialog box
reload the web page (refresh)

Hope this helps.

I restarted the machine and everything loads great now. It seems that IE and Vista are not buddies.

I appreciate your advice.

To the OP, that looks like it was a lot of fun to build. Thanks for sharing a cool build. I wish I could give you insight on the drivers but, I myself am still a newb. Good luck with the update.
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post #24 of 59 Old 04-30-2009, 06:38 PM - Thread Starter
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I received the speakers today. Hopefully I made a good choice with these ones. They weren't exactly cheap.



-Jason

The "Z" Family Theater - Almost "complete".
-Not your average sub build
-Klipsch Sonosub Build

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post #25 of 59 Old 04-30-2009, 10:05 PM
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Just be sure to be careful on how you drive them. Harder to tell when you are stressing the drivers when they are in a bandpass enlosure. I found that out the hard way when I was into car audio.
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post #26 of 59 Old 06-10-2010, 06:14 AM - Thread Starter
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BUMPED from the dead! Since my basement is almost ready to live in, I have to get this sub done as it will be put in the den with the in-wall speakers.

I sort of ran into a problem that I haven't really put a ton of thought into yet. The speakers I bought don't match up to the original holes drilled from the previous set of speakers. There's not very much room to work around, so I'm trying to figure out how to drill out some new holes with about 5"+ to work in.

-Jason

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-Not your average sub build
-Klipsch Sonosub Build

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post #27 of 59 Old 06-10-2010, 08:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yamahaSHO View Post

BUMPED from the dead! Since my basement is almost ready to live in, I have to get this sub done as it will be put in the den with the in-wall speakers.

I sort of ran into a problem that I haven't really put a ton of thought into yet. The speakers I bought don't match up to the original holes drilled from the previous set of speakers. There's not very much room to work around, so I'm trying to figure out how to drill out some new holes with about 5"+ to work in.

What kind of screws are you using? Can you just use some regular wood screws and not bolts? Is the enough wood to bite into where the drivers will be secure? Since the ply is 3/4" you should be fine without having to drill pilot holes.

Dumb enough to spend lots of cash on this junk!
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post #28 of 59 Old 06-10-2010, 09:06 AM - Thread Starter
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I am using wood screws, but I like to pre-drill which would really help drive a screw in where I am lacking room.

-Jason

The "Z" Family Theater - Almost "complete".
-Not your average sub build
-Klipsch Sonosub Build

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post #29 of 59 Old 08-17-2010, 01:51 PM - Thread Starter
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Where does the time go?! I had a chance to do some work on the sub this week. I've got everything fitted and tested and it is now going to be shipped to my dad. He is going to do all the wood work as he feels bad about not packing it well enough when he shipped it to me. I am going to go darker on the wood, but not too dark as I like the wood grain.

After hooking it up and running it with the amp off the sub (then also while installed), I recognized a noise that I previously had and figured it was some type of air leak. It turned out that the chamber behind the woofers was leaking into the front of the woofers and could be heard during some frequencies. I have since sealed all the corners. I can say that although it won't dig as deep as the eD sub I just sent back, it was much more impressive for the frequencies it can produce. I didn't think it'd be able to be felt in the chest at my seating position nor did I think it would rattle anything. It rattled the windows in my french doors. Not too bad for two 6.5" woofers. I think the new port alone made most of the difference.

Anyway, here are some pictures. When I get it back it should look awesome!






-Jason

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-Not your average sub build
-Klipsch Sonosub Build

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post #30 of 59 Old 08-17-2010, 07:28 PM
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Oh the 8th bandpass subwoofer. A long time ago I drew the image that is similar is what I drew in those plans, but I can not prove that. The Internet can if it still saved on the diysubwoofers.org servers. This design is coming back to haunt me because I did not yet make one.

I suggest go with a 5.25 inch woofers because they are small enough to handle compression. If you going with larger woofers, I think aluminum or composite cones will be better. Since the cone does not move a lot, select woofers with large voice coil diameter to handle the heat. If you are going with larger woofers, use ports with a wider diameter than you used.

You can try Peerless 830874 6.5 inch woofer. It is not too expensive, but not cheap either. For any subwoofer, the design will tell you how much watts it can handle, so you may want to leave out the BASH 300 watt plate amplifier for a different build. For a 5.25 woofer, I suggest Peerless 830860.
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