Peavey IPR class D amps - Page 11 - AVS Forum
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post #301 of 958 Old 02-18-2010, 06:50 AM
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So, while I definitely dig it, I'm not as much of a home theater geek as most of you; I'm more of a musician/live sound guy.

I stumbled across this forum while researching the new IPR's, and this thread is VERY entertaining and educational!

I currently use a Crown XLS402 to power my floor monitors, and it seems like the IPR1600 is supposed to be just a little better performance wise.

I've been thinking about picking up the IPR to power my floor monitors, and then bridge the Crown to power a couple of subs.

A friend of mine manages a music store that just got in the IPR1600... I think I'm going to see if I can borrow it, or possibly take my Crown in to the store and A/B them.

I mean, if it really does sound better/louder than the XLS402, then the published specs are likely legit, correct?


Steve
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post #302 of 958 Old 02-18-2010, 07:10 AM
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SirNickity, Thank you!


Quote:
Originally Posted by ArthurG View Post

Well, if you are an experienced amp designer, you already know many many things only looking at the pictures. You cannot deny it. Let's play ? ....................And finally, to be perfectly clear and to reply to someone, I work for a R&D company designing SMPS, class D, networkable DSP, and fully integrated acoustic solutions for OEMs. ......... It was something I like personally to discuss: burst vs sinus topic and "evil marketing playing with datasheet numbers" game. Yeah as an old school engineer, I don't like these marketing people when they talk about burst for "mine is bigger than yours" stupid attitude...
Arthur



Arthur, I'm a bit busy today, so hopefully we won't get into another lengthy back and forth, but ..... sorry dude. Most of your assumptions regarding what you think you see in the design are just wrong. You are trying to demonstrate your engineering ability and in the process trying to prove that something that is, can not be. If you were working for me, I'd be giving you a speech about spending your time figuring out how something can be accomplished (IPR1600) as opposed to various reasons as to why it can not be accomplished. If you truly are an engineer, focus on getting it done and not on why it can't be done. I hear Larry the Cable Guy in the background .........
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post #303 of 958 Old 02-18-2010, 09:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sickneedhelp View Post

Arthur, I'm a bit busy today, so hopefully we won't get into another lengthy back and forth, but ..... sorry dude. Most of your assumptions regarding what you think you see in the design are just wrong. You are trying to demonstrate your engineering ability and in the process trying to prove that something that is, can not be. If you were working for me, I'd be giving you a speech about spending your time figuring out how something can be accomplished (IPR1600) as opposed to various reasons as to why it can not be accomplished. If you truly are an engineer, focus on getting it done and not on why it can't be done. I hear Larry the Cable Guy in the background .........

Dear JD,

I'm busy too today and I will not reply to your message because it has nothing inside except saying I'm wrong. As you don't want to discuss the technical merits of your amp, we will postpone this discussion later when I will have one IPR in hands.

have a good day
--Arthur
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post #304 of 958 Old 02-18-2010, 09:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by S.Filpansick View Post

So, while I definitely dig it, I'm not as much of a home theater geek as most of you; I'm more of a musician/live sound guy.

I stumbled across this forum while researching the new IPR's, and this thread is VERY entertaining and educational!

I currently use a Crown XLS402 to power my floor monitors, and it seems like the IPR1600 is supposed to be just a little better performance wise.

I've been thinking about picking up the IPR to power my floor monitors, and then bridge the Crown to power a couple of subs.

A friend of mine manages a music store that just got in the IPR1600... I think I'm going to see if I can borrow it, or possibly take my Crown in to the store and A/B them.

I mean, if it really does sound better/louder than the XLS402, then the published specs are likely legit, correct?


Steve

When comparing amps- BE SURE to have both amps set so the same input signal produces the same output level.

Then you can turn them up and see which one will "get louder".

If you don't do this-then the amp with the higher sensitivity (or lower input level requirement) will always win.

And the one that is even a little tad bit louder will sound better.

Be sure you are comparing apples to apples.

Danley Sound Labs

Physics-not fads
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post #305 of 958 Old 02-18-2010, 10:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivan Beaver View Post

Be sure you are comparing apples to apples.

Steve F, welcome to the forum. Since you are new and neutral, and have access, hopefully you can help resolve some questions. Please connect two ohms worth of speakers to each channel of each amp and give us the results.

Thanks
jd
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post #306 of 958 Old 02-18-2010, 10:52 AM
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[quote=Sickneedhelp;18159632]
Quote:
Originally Posted by michael hurd View Post

You also have to factor in errors during testing, or the possibility of a defective test sample. Note the results of the Crest 9200 in Bink's shootout. I have tons of respect for him and wish I had been there at the time. I would have been able to see why his measurements were so low on a unit that was later checked and was not defective. This model has been out for over eight years with very good sales and reviews. Typical customers for these bench test them and would be wanting refunds if they measured less than claimed. The test results simply were not accurate and I'm confident it was not because of any intentional issue.

JD,

I don't know what you would expect from the 9200 in those tests, but what it did under those conditions I consider a very good performance compared to most of the other amps tested. Virtually NONE of the amps met their specs in Mr. Knowles's test in all aspects. The ones that came closest included 2 of the Crest's the 8002, the 9200. I very seriously doubt that anyone would be returning that amp as defective, seeing as it outperformed most of the field and the real world measures are much less strenuous.

How many buyers really bench test their amps? 1 out of 1000? It can't be too many.
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post #307 of 958 Old 02-18-2010, 11:37 AM
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WooHoo, front page news hehe


Regards,
Dan
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post #308 of 958 Old 02-18-2010, 11:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sickneedhelp View Post

Steve F, welcome to the forum. Since you are new and neutral, and have access, hopefully you can help resolve some questions. Please connect two ohms worth of speakers to each channel of each amp and give us the results.

Thanks
jd

Thanks JD,

My Crown is not rated down to 2 ohms, so I'd feel much more comfortable testing them both with the same 4 ohm load that I normally run.

It's still apples to apples, and then if the IPR fares well, the 2 ohm capability is just a bonus, right?


Steve
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post #309 of 958 Old 02-18-2010, 04:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by S.Filpansick View Post

It's still apples to apples, and then if the IPR fares well, the 2 ohm capability is just a bonus, right?

Steve

Hi Steve

The two ohm spec seems to be the one most questioned, so I was hoping I could get something from someone neutral that indicated it might just work as claimed. If the Crown works at any reasonable level into two, that is a bonus since they make no claims to do so. The burden to perform at two is the IPR's, not the XTi's.

Any follow-up input from your test is appreciated.

jd
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post #310 of 958 Old 02-18-2010, 08:13 PM
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We REALLY need to get one of these to Chuck for testing. I'm sure that many are highly interested.
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post #311 of 958 Old 02-19-2010, 05:51 PM
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Greetings. Just back from tinkering with the EPQ1000. Whew....had a few moments to browse around and noticed my friend ArthurG with striking similarities to ArthurFelix at ProSound Web.

Everyone here has claimed their identity. As you know, I am President of Behringer.

Sick relinquished so we can judge the merits of his comments. It also opens the door to scrutiny if his amplifiers don't perform exactly as he claims.

There are many here who would enjoy your affiliation so we can do the same. Many theories and numbers have been put forth without being able to verify against products in the real world. I challenge you to put the, as we in Germany love to say, the "sauer" with the "kraut".

Besides, I am a little short-handed for the "program". We'll be in touch.
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post #312 of 958 Old 02-19-2010, 07:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BEHRINGER PRSDNT View Post

Greetings. Just back from tinkering with the EPQ1000. Whew....had a few moments to browse around and noticed my friend ArthurG with striking similarities to ArthurFelix at ProSound Web.

Everyone here has claimed their identity. As you know, I am President of Behringer.

Sick relinquished so we can judge the merits of his comments. It also opens the door to scrutiny if his amplifiers don't perform exactly as he claims.

There are many here who would enjoy your affiliation so we can do the same. Many theories and numbers have been put forth without being able to verify against products in the real world. I challenge you to put the, as we in Germany love to say, the "sauer" with the "kraut".

Besides, I am a little short-handed for the "program". We'll be in touch.

Hello Mr. Behringer,

Is there any chance of a software upgrade for some of your components, ala DEQ/DCX that would extend filter ranges down to 10-15 Hz.?
It sure would help the community out here and probably make your products one of the best solutions for EQ duty, more so than it is already.

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post #313 of 958 Old 02-19-2010, 07:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jpmst3 View Post

Hello Mr. Behringer,

Is there any chance of a software upgrade for some of your components, ala DEQ/DCX that would extend filter ranges down to 10-15 Hz.?
It sure would help the community out here and probably make your products one of the best solutions for EQ duty, more so than it is already.

I thought there already was, via a 'hack' from another forum. Of course, you need to be in invitee to get that information.

"You take the blue pill - the story ends, you wake up in your bed and believe whatever you want to believe. You take the red pill - you stay in Wonderland and I show you how deep the rabbit-hole goes."
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post #314 of 958 Old 02-19-2010, 07:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BEHRINGER PRSDNT View Post

Everyone here has claimed their identity. As you know, I am President of Behringer.


This has the pungent stench of a farce fed alias.

 

Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice:
It's also the very sort of Voodoo Engineering that should never be done.

 

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post #315 of 958 Old 02-19-2010, 07:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WiSounds View Post

This has the pungent stench of a farce fed alias.

Almost undoubtedly!

But it is fun to humor him.

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post #316 of 958 Old 02-19-2010, 07:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by michael hurd View Post

I thought there already was, via a 'hack' from another forum. Of course, you need to be in invitee to get that information.

REALLY!??!

I would be very interested in that information if it does indeed exist.
Any idea what forum?

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post #317 of 958 Old 02-19-2010, 07:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BEHRINGER PRSDNT View Post

Greetings. Just back from tinkering with the EPQ1000. Whew....had a few moments to browse around and noticed my friend ArthurG with striking similarities to ArthurFelix at ProSound Web.

Everyone here has claimed their identity. As you know, I am President of Behringer.

Sick relinquished so we can judge the merits of his comments. It also opens the door to scrutiny if his amplifiers don't perform exactly as he claims.

There are many here who would enjoy your affiliation so we can do the same. Many theories and numbers have been put forth without being able to verify against products in the real world. I challenge you to put the, as we in Germany love to say, the "sauer" with the "kraut".

Besides, I am a little short-handed for the "program". We'll be in touch.



One chance to prove your merit.



Why did you re-badge the EP2500 as the EP4000?

 

Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice:
It's also the very sort of Voodoo Engineering that should never be done.

 

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post #318 of 958 Old 02-19-2010, 08:31 PM
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Even the Behringer name is stolen, a morphing of two items below.






+





The storm was gone, but dark clouds still hung around
The perfect setting for things to come......

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post #319 of 958 Old 02-19-2010, 08:59 PM
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you are hilarious thy.

however, uli is something of a business genius. headquartered in monaco to boot. lol...he is the one laughing. cute ursidae and hominids not withstanding.

Listen. It's All Good.
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post #320 of 958 Old 02-19-2010, 09:01 PM
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Naked Redhead = BareGinger

 

Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice:
It's also the very sort of Voodoo Engineering that should never be done.

 

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post #321 of 958 Old 02-19-2010, 09:12 PM
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Thy, you never cease to humor me with what you come up with, and so quickly too.

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post #322 of 958 Old 02-20-2010, 08:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jpmst3 View Post

Hello Mr. Behringer,

Is there any chance of a software upgrade for some of your components, ala DEQ/DCX that would extend filter ranges down to 10-15 Hz.?
It sure would help the community out here and probably make your products one of the best solutions for EQ duty, more so than it is already.

+1 That would be great

Quote:
Originally Posted by michael hurd View Post

I thought there already was, via a 'hack' from another forum. Of course, you need to be in invitee to get that information.

Mike care to expand on this info... possibly make a new thread about this....
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post #323 of 958 Old 02-21-2010, 12:43 AM
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+ 1, I would like to know about the DCX hack also..

Cheers...
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post #324 of 958 Old 03-09-2010, 08:27 PM
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I'm an independent developer of audio switching power electronics from Europe. I have been developing technology similar to the one used in Peavey IPR amplifiers and I have got similar or better results in terms of efficiency and size/weight/cost reduction.

So I would like to back the claims made about these amplifiers for all the skeptical people.

One of my current developments (for an U.S. company which does not sell directly to end customers) is a single channel plate amplifier capable of 2800W into 4 ohm (all day long with breaker bypassed) and 5000W into 2 ohm for 1 second with 1/3 duty cycle (internally limited through simple analog computer to avoid tripping breakers).

These power levels come from a module that is more or less the size of the PCB in the IPR1600 (but taller) and that does not even require a fan on the heatsink. In fact, it can play +/-100V full-range music into 4 ohm speaker without any heatsink (which is only required for subwoofer and/or 2 ohm duties, or sinewave testing).

Efficiency from mains input to speaker output is around 95%. Efficiency is the key to make such small and low cost amplifiers. Power is intended to be delivered to the load, not to be dissipated in the amplifier. Clever use of latest generation MOSFET make this possible, rendering all the class AB stuff even more outdated than it is now. Like the IPR developer, I can't give more details, as the risk of being copied is high.

The debate about the 400W power consumption figure is funny because an appliance may draw 4KW bursts and still 400W average without tripping a 400W breaker.

The amplifier mentioned above can draw over 40A rms from mains for 1 second, yet the limiter makes it very hard to trip a 20A breaker. A more powerful 230V version that can also run on 240V two-phase and 208V three-phase power is also on development, while the 120V version can be considered finished.

In my opinion, what makes some people angry about these new designs (including most class-AB-only amplifier designers) is that they are seen as black magic, something that they can't understand. Amplifier technology standards are quickly changing and they are angry because they can't keep themselves up to date... (So either learn or choose another job )
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post #325 of 958 Old 03-09-2010, 09:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by evapowah View Post

In my opinion, what makes some people angry about these new designs (including most class-AB-only amplifier designers) is that they are seen as black magic, something that they can't understand. Amplifier technology standards are quickly changing and they are angry because they can't keep themselves up to date... (So either learn or choose another job )

Wait until the marketing department starts work on your project and creates literature



The storm was gone, but dark clouds still hung around
The perfect setting for things to come......

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post #326 of 958 Old 03-10-2010, 01:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by evapowah View Post

One of my current developments (for an U.S. company which does not sell directly to end customers) is a single channel plate amplifier capable of 2800W into 4 ohm (all day long with breaker bypassed) and 5000W into 2 ohm for 1 second with 1/3 duty cycle (internally limited through simple analog computer to avoid tripping breakers).

Evapowah, welcome to AVS and thanks for your contribution. If you can disclose which amps these are that would be great. Of course, if it is yet to be released then totally understand

explore the music
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post #327 of 958 Old 03-11-2010, 07:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by evapowah View Post

I'm an independent developer of audio switching power electronics from Europe. I have been developing technology similar to the one used in Peavey IPR amplifiers and I have got similar or better results in terms of efficiency and size/weight/cost reduction.

...

blablabla I'm the best

...


blablabla my design is the best

...


blablabla but nobody can see it in the market

...

blablabla yeah you understand it's so advanced that I cannot talk about it because it will be copied

...

blablabla useless auto satisfaction stuff

and so ?



















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post #328 of 958 Old 03-11-2010, 08:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by evapowah View Post

I'm an independent developer of audio switching power electronics from Europe. I have been developing technology similar to the one used in Peavey IPR amplifiers and I have got similar or better results in terms of efficiency and size/weight/cost reduction.

So I would like to back the claims made about these amplifiers for all the skeptical people. )

Welcome to AVS evapowah. Obviously you've been a "reader" for a while before you decided to become a contributing member.

Interesting you mention the IPR amplifier and it's design and function claims. We currently have a member who is employed by Peavey and has just agreed to supply an IPR 1600 to this forum for testing.

Stand by for more details as other members schedule and plan a way to make the tests and report the results on this forum.

The other relevant thread entry follows:

"Unread Today, 09:23 AM #1606 | Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LINEARX View Post
........... You've convinced me that your new 7lb baby is for real, you just gotta do an "in situ" performance by which we can all see for ourselves that the IPR 1600 is the real deal and it's advertised specs are real world . . . . so to speak.
Okay ........ hopefully by now everyone has read Eva's commentary at http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...150665&page=11

Reading her input on another forum, she definitely knows her stuff. That should make some on here feel a bit better about the wild claims some of us are making in regards to the technology.

Marketing says they will provide an IPR1600 for the Chuck test. As I noted previously, I have concerns about Chuck being able to measure class D accurately. However, it's unreasonable to expect someone who measures amps as a favor to forum members to spring for the $$ to buy input filters, mondo variacs, mondo AC mains wires and a day of residential electrician's time. The folks on here will have to accept that Chuck's results, best case, will be approximate due to no fault on anyone's side.

I don't know if Marketing will choose to ship one directly or to have the regional rep drop one off at Chuck's doorstep.

Tag, you're it
jdb "

Possibly you'll have additional information to add about your similar project without releasing or compromising intellectual property. We would welcome that.
Maybe you, "evapowah" and "Sickneedhelp" could benefit each other and us members as well, by having a sort of "public" dialogue right here on the AVS forum in regards to the latest in amplification and DSP. Or maybe we could make a separate thread where both of you become our Class D gurus and do question and answer. There are lots of possibilities to bring enlightenment to the electronically challenged and/or interested.
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post #329 of 958 Old 03-11-2010, 11:39 AM
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[quote=ArthurG;18291825]and so ?

That was borderline rude. Nevermind. It was just rude. We here at Behringer frown on that sort of behavior.

Arthur, from what I've seen of Eva in other forums, she has her facts together AND makes it a point to help others. Contrast this to your self promotion that you make at the expense of others in here and in other forums . Eva was straight with us about her role. You've yet to admit that you work for a Chinese amplifier company and take interest in a slant.
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post #330 of 958 Old 03-11-2010, 11:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LINEARX View Post

........ become our Class D gurus and do question and answer. There are lots of possibilities to bring enlightenment to the electronically challenged and/or interested.

Hopefully MBenz will include himself. Judging from his posts, he probably knows as much as the rest of us put together, except for of course my buddy Arthur. Those of us commercially involved have to be very careful with participation. Hope everyone understands.
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Crown Audio Xti 2002 475w Stereo Power Amplifier 20hz To 20khz Frequency Response 1 4vrms Input Sens
Gear in this thread - 475w by PriceGrabber.com

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