Anyone build Wayne Parham's Pi-4 speakers? Impressions? - Page 6 - AVS Forum
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post #151 of 176 Old 09-06-2010, 02:21 PM
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Easy button max fits those dimensions
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post #152 of 176 Old 09-06-2010, 02:50 PM - Thread Starter
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I've looked at NeoDans thread and I know there are variations, which version are you thinking of for the space and what orientation?
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post #153 of 176 Old 09-06-2010, 03:57 PM
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I believe dan run his horizontal and pointed at the side wall instead of the listener. You could build two and crumble that nice theater you just built

Actually looking at that space again you could do the vertically standing easy buttons and fit them between your speakers
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post #154 of 176 Old 09-06-2010, 06:11 PM
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the behind the screen picture concerns me a little bit. it seems that you have several boundaries ~4 feet from the speakers. 1/4 wavelength to a boundary creates a cancellation. it seems that you may be knocking out a lot of the bass performance in the 60-80 region (4 feet to a boundary puts a cancellation at 70hz), which is in the wheelhouse for 4 pi's.

Listen. It's All Good.
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post #155 of 176 Old 09-06-2010, 07:01 PM - Thread Starter
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If you have any test gear I think it would make a nice road trip for you to come up for a visit and help me see how my room measures.
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post #156 of 176 Old 09-07-2010, 06:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

the behind the screen picture concerns me a little bit. it seems that you have several boundaries ~4 feet from the speakers. 1/4 wavelength to a boundary creates a cancellation. it seems that you may be knocking out a lot of the bass performance in the 60-80 region (4 feet to a boundary puts a cancellation at 70hz), which is in the wheelhouse for 4 pi's.

He should have very thick treatments (maybe with membranes) behind the speakers to handle that issue. That along with the XO between the mains and the sub will handle it just fine.

Its a null anyways and outside of wanting perfect measurements there isnt much about a null that hurts the bass.

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post #157 of 176 Old 09-07-2010, 06:12 AM - Thread Starter
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I have two inches of linacoustic on the front wall, The side columns are faced with 1 inch under the fabric, The side walls have 1 inch.
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post #158 of 176 Old 09-07-2010, 06:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGmouthinDC View Post

Thanks Nick, just a random observation. A couple months ago when we compared my old speakers to your initially assembled pair of 4PIs we noticed a substantial difference in the treble range. I was pleasantly surprised to discover that I am not experiencing nearly the same magnitude of difference in my final speakers. I don't know what to attribute that to, your amp, different room acoustics, or the difference in the crossovers which we discussed.

You need to come over for a listen.

Hmm, interesting. I wonder what it could be. I have to get mine up and running again with the proper capacitor and then may bring one of them over for a direct comparison. It is going to be a month or so before I get them together. Maybe by then you will have built your new subs.
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post #159 of 176 Old 09-11-2010, 06:10 AM
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Did you try out varying degrees of toe-in? I'm curious if you ended up with the speakers firing directly forward or if some toe-in ended up with better imaging for music/movies.

Your screen size and room width are almost identical to mine, and I'm finalizing my cabinet design for an e-wave build, which should have comparable directivity to your 4pi build.

Best,
C.
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post #160 of 176 Old 09-11-2010, 08:12 AM
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This is a link that LTD02 put up about a page back in this thread that has some good info for you.

http://www.audioroundtable.com/PiSpe...ges/23369.html

I did this with my Ewaves and noticed a big change in 2 channel but not as much for multi channel.


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Originally Posted by Cerdic View Post

Did you try out varying degrees of toe-in? I'm curious if you ended up with the speakers firing directly forward or if some toe-in ended up with better imaging for music/movies.

Your screen size and room width are almost identical to mine, and I'm finalizing my cabinet design for an e-wave build, which should have comparable directivity to your 4pi build.

Best,
C.


Trevor
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post #161 of 176 Old 09-11-2010, 09:40 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cerdic View Post

Did you try out varying degrees of toe-in?

Toe-in is problematic in my space unless I take a saw to the wall. The room is shorter behind the left speaker.

Another reason is that the AT of the screen deceases with the angle of the sound.
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post #162 of 176 Old 09-11-2010, 11:36 AM
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How high up are your ears in relation to the center of the horns or 15's?

What is that empty cavity under the center channel? Can you cover it up so it's not a cavity anymore?

"The boom is dead, long live the bass"
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post #163 of 176 Old 09-11-2010, 11:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGmouthinDC View Post

Toe-in is problematic in my space unless I take a saw to the wall. The room is shorter behind the left speaker.

Another reason is that the AT of the screen deceases with the angle of the sound.

Pity as all the controlled directivity designs I've used have universally sounded better toed in heavily with the horn/WG axis crossing in front of the listener.
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post #164 of 176 Old 09-11-2010, 12:18 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CZ Eddie View Post

How high up are your ears in relation to the center of the horns or 15's?

What is that empty cavity under the center channel? Can you cover it up so it's not a cavity anymore?

Depends on where you are sitting. I have 3 rows of seating and the mid point of woofer/horn is a few inches above the listeners ear in the middle row. I plan to bring them down a tad in my final set-up.

That empty cavity is just a 3 sided MDF box that I am using to elevate the middle channel temporarily until I build in my subs and maybe do a THX baffle wall. I have it totally stuffed with leftover bits and pieces of acoustical treatments.
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post #165 of 176 Old 09-11-2010, 12:19 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A9X-308 View Post

Pity as all the controlled directivity designs I've used have universally sounded better toed in heavily with the horn/WG axis crossing in front of the listener.

Understood. Is your experience two channel or 7 channel listening?
Behind a woven screen?
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post #166 of 176 Old 09-11-2010, 12:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGmouthinDC View Post

Toe-in is problematic in my space unless I take a saw to the wall. The room is shorter behind the left speaker.

Another reason is that the AT of the screen deceases with the angle of the sound.

Chris Seymour in the Seymour AV thread also thought that to be the case, due to experiences with earlier AT materials, but changed his mind after doing some measurements (I believe this was pre-Center Stage material; YMMV for SMX I guess):

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...2#post12824882

Quote:


Well, the data is in and it shows me not only how some of my experiences derive from, but also where I'm wrong. My basis for recommending that folks try to minimize their speaker angles with respect to the screen (e.g. fire them straight through - don't tow them in) came from previous experience with acoustically transparent large and small-format screens and their tendency to affect the sound at different speaker angles. My analogy with the light opacity at different angles seemed to support that the material acts like it has a different openness at different angles and hence its permeability and sonic transparency would be affected. Fire straight through and get the full openness of the fabric, increase the angle and you're thereafter trading off acoustical transparency. After running through the tests with the Center Stage screen fabric, the measurements didn't support this. If you're wearing a tie, your summary is that the Center Stage screen doesn't perform worse at increased speaker angles, and that comb filtering is not significantly affected by speaker angle.

Doesn't help you saw holes in the wall though.
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post #167 of 176 Old 09-11-2010, 12:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGmouthinDC View Post

I have two inches of linacoustic on the front wall, The side columns are faced with 1 inch under the fabric, The side walls have 1 inch.

thin absorption won't do much for low frequencies though - 1" is .08 efficient at 125 Hz, .25 for 2" - so I suppose wouldn't alleviate any boundary issues. (Insert customary Holoday Inn Express disclaimer)
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post #168 of 176 Old 09-11-2010, 01:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGmouthinDC View Post

Understood. Is your experience two channel or 7 channel listening?

Both.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGmouthinDC View Post

Behind a woven screen?

No.
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post #169 of 176 Old 09-12-2010, 04:40 PM
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"Pity as all the controlled directivity designs I've used have universally sounded better toed in heavily with the horn/WG axis crossing in front of the listener."

alpha niner makes a good point. bigmouth, did you catch this one?
http://www.audioroundtable.com/PiSpe...ges/23369.html

"Its a null anyways and outside of wanting perfect measurements there isnt much about a null that hurts the bass."

the ceiling and the floor can suck out quite a bit and placement appears equidistant there. this is what i was talking about:
http://www.peavey.com/support/techno...ncellation.cfm

one big reason people like the 4pi type design is the performance through the mid-bass. hate to see a big suckout put a dent in the fun.

Listen. It's All Good.
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post #170 of 176 Old 09-12-2010, 07:58 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGmouthinDC View Post

Depends on where you are sitting. I have 3 rows of seating and the mid point of woofer/horn is a few inches above the listeners ear in the middle row. I plan to bring them down a tad in my final set-up.

That empty cavity is just a 3 sided MDF box that I am using to elevate the middle channel temporarily until I build in my subs and maybe do a THX baffle wall. I have it totally stuffed with leftover bits and pieces of acoustical treatments.

I like a THX baffle wall. My center channel speaker is set up that way.
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post #171 of 176 Old 07-19-2013, 02:52 PM
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Big,

After having built several theaters and several DIY speakers would you care to share your thoughts ? I am interested in your impression of your current speakers compared to the others you have heard, and what you have liked and disliked and why.

-

"Too much is almost enough. Anything in life worth doing is worth overdoing. Moderation is for cowards."
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post #172 of 176 Old 11-08-2013, 12:24 PM
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Anyone running or tested amps with 4pi's?

I am using these for LCR in my 2700cf deducated room and curious what amp options would work best for these? I remember when I was breaking them in, basically one at a time, and there was a certain extra richness to the sound compared to when the rest of the speakers are hooked up in my system - if that makes any sense?

Just running a Denon 2809 and curios if anyone has thrown an Emotiva XPA-3, 250 watts at 6 ohm, or perhaps the XPA-2, 400watts, at these and care to comment?

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post #173 of 176 Old 11-08-2013, 12:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoCaboNow View Post

Anyone running or tested amps with 4pi's?

I am using these for LCR in my 2700cf deducated room and curious what amp options would work best for these? I remember when I was breaking them in, basically one at a time, and there was a certain extra richness to the sound compared to when the rest of the speakers are hooked up in my system - if that makes any sense?

Just running a Denon 2809 and curios if anyone has thrown an Emotiva XPA-3, 250 watts at 6 ohm, or perhaps the XPA-2, 400watts, at these and care to comment?

I use the upgraded 4pi's, but also still use a receiver to drive them. Was kind of wondering the same thing.
I have the Inuke3k and Ep4000 amps so I might end up hooking one of them up. 450w @ 8 ohms is still underpowering them technically, but gives way more headroom then the receiver.
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post #174 of 176 Old 11-08-2013, 12:53 PM
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I run my upgraded 4 Pi speakers with an Odyssey Khartago amplifier. They seem to sound better with this amp than my Onkyo TX-805 receiver, but this could be placebo-like effect.

A man who has nothing which he is willing to fight for, nothing which he cares more about than he does about his personal safety, is a miserable creature who has no chance of being free.

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post #175 of 176 Old 11-08-2013, 03:09 PM
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It seems like noise floor can be a significant issue with these high-sensitivity speaker designs.

I'm not defending this stack as sensible :-), but I was running an unbalanced miniDSP with an iNuke3000DSP (not using the internal DSP, but the amp is the DSP version), connected to the pre-outs on my Onkyo 805 and the hiss was audible from the listening position. It was annoying.

Then I built a passive crossover for that speaker and connected it directly to the 805. The hiss was reduced to a reasonable level, but there's a lower frequency hum/buzz that is on the edge of audibility from the LP (though the rest of the room isn't quiet enough to be a major bother at this point).

If you can, I would audition before you commit to an amp purchase, to check for noise.

-Max
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post #176 of 176 Old 11-08-2013, 03:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thatsnasty View Post

I use the upgraded 4pi's, but also still use a receiver to drive them. Was kind of wondering the same thing.
I have the Inuke3k and Ep4000 amps so I might end up hooking one of them up. 450w @ 8 ohms is still underpowering them technically, but gives way more headroom then the receiver.

I have the JBL and B&C upgrade as well and was looking if anyone had thrown 250,400,600watts, or whatever, at them and could comment on the progression. I could tell a difference between the AVR powering one 4pi compared to all speakers at once and certain the xpa-3 at 250 watt for 6ohms would be an improvement, but is it worthwhile to go up to 400+?

Here they are before I integrated into the room


And after

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