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post #91 of 603 Old 08-26-2009, 04:08 PM
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I'd be happy to SketchUp the cut sheets and enclosures.

Regards,
Dan
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post #92 of 603 Old 08-26-2009, 04:11 PM - Thread Starter
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Dan I'll post the basic layouts tonight and you are more than welcome to build from that. Let me know if you have any questions.
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post #93 of 603 Old 08-26-2009, 07:24 PM - Thread Starter
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Here are the cabinet dimensions. These are the outside dimensions that assume a certain thickness of wood used. The BBV2 use 1/2" MDF. The No Quarter is 3/4" (or 23mm) Birch ply, but the baffle is 1 1/2" thick and made from one layer of 3/4" Birch ply and one layer of 3/4" MDF. MDF to the outside. It is VERY IMPORTANT to chamfer the backside of the baffle for the BBV2. I just used a Dremel with the little sanding drum. Drill the mounting holes first so you know where to leave some "meat" then chamfer the area between them so the driver flange is sitting an 1/8" landing. On the BBV2 all corners are rounded over with a 1/2" bit. The No Quarter uses a 1 1/4" roundover on the baffle and a 1" everywhere else. I think I bought the big bit from MLCS for a reasonable price. Note this is not a definitive build thread so I'm leaving out some detail, but there are a number fo people with the parts that want to start building so here it is. First the BBV2 backside baffle, TM, and MTM:






And the No Quarter:

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post #94 of 603 Old 08-26-2009, 09:30 PM
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Brandon,
how deep is the recess for the woofer?

Regards,
Dan
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post #95 of 603 Old 08-26-2009, 11:06 PM
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What sort of bracing and port layout are you using?
At least it can be cut from a single sheet of material.



Regards,
Dan
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post #96 of 603 Old 08-27-2009, 06:03 AM
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Nice work!!

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post #97 of 603 Old 08-27-2009, 07:47 AM
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Nice work!!

Whoa!... how long has that "Thanks" button been there???
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post #98 of 603 Old 08-27-2009, 08:37 AM
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It just showed up yesterday

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post #99 of 603 Old 08-27-2009, 10:58 AM - Thread Starter
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Dan I'll get that info for you tonight. Looks like some of the corners are still sharp. All of mine are 1" roundover with the baffle being 1 1/4". Another thing I did was for the horn cutout I actually left a 1 1/2" "landing" then used a 3/4" roundover. That way I could leave as much of the baffle material as possible, since the horn cuts out such a large amount.

Also I'll correct that TM height, should be 7".
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post #100 of 603 Old 08-27-2009, 01:24 PM
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Brandon - What is your best estimate as to how "short" you can make the No Quarters? That is, could the 25" height be shortened to, say 23-1/2"? It doesn't look like there is much to shorten, but I am willing to sacrifice the great looking roundover work and have a little bass extension - if it means making it work as a center channel under my display.

Thanks again for all your "sweat and sawdust",
Steve
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post #101 of 603 Old 08-27-2009, 01:33 PM - Thread Starter
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Well the edge roundover is integral to the design as it is basically a continuation of the horn. Now the 1 1/4" below the woofer...that could probably get cut down. With the bottom edge of the driver flange flush with the bottom of the speaker (flush mounted still of course) you would be at 23 3/4" BTW you can compensate for making it shorter by making the cabinet slightly deeper so the internal volume is the same. 1/2" deeper would probably be roughly equal to making it 1 1/4" shorter.
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post #102 of 603 Old 08-27-2009, 01:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NEO Dan View Post

What sort of bracing and port layout are you using?
At least it can be cut from a single sheet of material.



Very nice and thanks for the effort!
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post #103 of 603 Old 08-27-2009, 01:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saddlesore View Post

Brandon - What is your best estimate as to how "short" you can make the No Quarters? That is, could the 25" height be shortened to, say 23-1/2"? It doesn't look like there is much to shorten, but I am willing to sacrifice the great looking roundover work and have a little bass extension - if it means making it work as a center channel under my display.

Thanks again for all your "sweat and sawdust",
Steve

the waveguide is 10", the 12" drivers is about 12.5.

How about?

1/8" to top
10" waveguide
1/8" space
12.5" woofer
3/4" to bottom

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post #104 of 603 Old 08-27-2009, 01:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by augerpro View Post

Well the edge roundover is integral to the design as it is basically a continuation of the horn. Now the 1 1/4" below the woofer...that could probably get cut down. With the bottom edge of the driver flange flush with the bottom of the speaker (flush mounted still of course) you would be at 23 3/4" BTW you can compensate for making it shorter by making the cabinet slightly deeper so the internal volume is the same. 1/2" deeper would probably be roughly equal to making it 1 1/4" shorter.

How much of an effect do you think that will have on the response? my wavguide is 3/4" from the sides so I was going to use a 3/4" round over.

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post #105 of 603 Old 08-27-2009, 03:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by augerpro View Post

Well the edge roundover is integral to the design as it is basically a continuation of the horn. Now the 1 1/4" below the woofer...that could probably get cut down. With the bottom edge of the driver flange flush with the bottom of the speaker (flush mounted still of course) you would be at 23 3/4" BTW you can compensate for making it shorter by making the cabinet slightly deeper so the internal volume is the same. 1/2" deeper would probably be roughly equal to making it 1 1/4" shorter.

You could probably overlap the woofer a bit with the horn to get that extra 1/4". Mount the horn before you do the woofer rabbet and cut right through the plastic.

That said, if saddlesore is putting it in a cabinet below the TV, that top roundover probably isn't going to do much good anyway. He could probably live without it and hope his receiver's EQ could make up for the different voicing caused by putting the speaker there.

Dennis H
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post #106 of 603 Old 08-27-2009, 03:44 PM
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The overall height measurement appears to be off in your BBV2 TM


I'm curious how the No Quarter CD/horn compares to the E-wave. What advantages and trade-offs does the NQ have in comparison?

YID DIY
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post #107 of 603 Old 08-27-2009, 05:33 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Looneybomber View Post

The overall height measurement appears to be off in your BBV2 TM


I'm curious how the No Quarter CD/horn compares to the E-wave. What advantages and trade-offs does the NQ have in comparison?

Fixed the TM height.

You know the more popular a design becomes the less I feel like comparing it to anything, since it typically devolves into a pissing contest if the other designers are present. I'll just say that the two designs obviously share some similar philosophy regarding objectives and at least for mine take considerable inspiration from Geddes' designs. I'm very happy with how my design is developing and it's meeting the criteria I set quite well. The Econowave has obviously been successful in bringing these sorts of speakers to average diy'er and that can only help my own design's popularity.
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post #108 of 603 Old 08-27-2009, 05:46 PM - Thread Starter
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Regarding Steve's proposed changes to the baffle, I don't think the suggestions so far are bad ones. Every DIY designer wrestles with giving their blessing to these sorts of changes, as the more little tweaks people do the more unpredictable the result is. And no one wants the perceived performance of one of these modified designs to be considered poor or have issues since it reflects badly on the original design-which may not have the issues. I will say I tend to be quite conservative with giving my blessing to most changes. As Zaph has said, build how you want, just don't call it my design when you do

Considering the restrictions and inherent issues of putting these in a cabinet, I can just say you gotta do what you gotta do to make it work, and accept the results. If all you need to do after shortening the area below the woofer is gain another 1/4" then I would go with Dennis's proposal of overlapping the woofer and horn slightly. Taking a 1/4" off the area above the horn might work well too, then use a 1" roundover. Actually that might be better than overlapping. Less chance of mishap screwing up the horn.
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post #109 of 603 Old 08-27-2009, 06:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by augerpro View Post

As Zaph has said, build how you want, just don't call it my design when you do

Yup, I feel for you man! You sweat over building it the best you can and people want to change it before it's even done!

Dennis H
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post #110 of 603 Old 08-27-2009, 06:07 PM - Thread Starter
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And you're contributing to pain!! Just kidding Dennis, I appreciate all the good advice you've given.
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post #111 of 603 Old 08-27-2009, 06:08 PM
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Brandon - Thanks for the suggestions. The cabinet the cc will be going in is built like a bomb shelter (e.g. 1-1/2" MDF walls and about 400 pounds, etc.) I have no problem letting the front of the center channel speaker protrude 6-8" in front of the cabinet (just can't sit out entirely in front of the cabinet). In fact, I have conceded that the HT cabinet will be getting intimate with a saws-all in the near future... it was my elbow grease that finished it in hand rubbed laquer. All said, I want to keep the cc as close to your original design as possible with absolute minimal compromises in the audio area. So far, it appears it is going to work well. However, the speaker cabinet construction is looking like it will be piece of cake compared to entertainment center remodel.

Thanks again,
Steve
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post #112 of 603 Old 08-27-2009, 06:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by augerpro View Post

Dan I'll get that info for you tonight. Looks like some of the corners are still sharp. All of mine are 1" roundover with the baffle being 1 1/4". Another thing I did was for the horn cutout I actually left a 1 1/2" "landing" then used a 3/4" roundover. That way I could leave as much of the baffle material as possible, since the horn cuts out such a large amount.

Also I'll correct that TM height, should be 7".

Your freehand work on the corners is not something I can cleanly replicate in SketchUp, due to the multiple raduis setup. Needing three roundover bits to do this is not exactly easy on the budget either...


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Dan
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post #113 of 603 Old 08-27-2009, 06:32 PM - Thread Starter
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Steve it may just be better to keep the baffle flush with front of the cabinet then to have it protrude. That can cause just the sort of dip I posted earlier in this thread of the infinite baffle mounted BBV2's. You will of course require a design with no baffle step compensation, and I will do that.

Actually there is another way to get that last 1/4" from the baffle height. I had made a 12 1/2" cutout because I planned on using these to model them with a TD12M in the future. Even with that there is about 1/8" space between the woofer cutout and horn. If you went to a 12 3/8" cutout (test this on scrap wood first) and moved the woofer up to 7 5/8" from the bottom it would just touch the horn and you would gain another 1/4" inch.

Dan the only roundover I'm really adamant about is the 1 1/4" of the baffle. The rest are basically for looks and need not be 1" like mine. You could even leave it square. The woofer cutout is 5/8" deep. The port is located on the side, centered 11 3/4" from the top and 6 3/8" from the front of the baffle. Here is pic of what I was talking about with the horn cutout and leaving some meat of the baffle, but rounding it over to fit the horn:



Note you should use a round file at the corners to make a little bit of groove to help the horn fit better. I haven't done this yet, so no pic, but after you make the cutout like the above put the horn in and you'll see the corners don't quite sit flush on the baffle. Actually you probably won't see it because it is so slight, but if you push down on teh corner like you were screwing it down you will see what I mean. Just need a little material removed at those corners to allow the horn to sit perfectly.
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post #114 of 603 Old 08-27-2009, 06:44 PM - Thread Starter
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For those wanting to see how was doing some of the construction, additional project pics will be posted here: http://s139.photobucket.com/albums/q.../No%20Quarter/
I think the ultimate way to make this cab though would be to V the back panel and stuff the V densely to reduce the backwave. I intended to do that, but didn't trust my woodworking. After the tip on miter lock bits I will try that and build it this winter probably.
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post #115 of 603 Old 08-27-2009, 09:07 PM
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You will of course require a design with no baffle step compensation, and I will do that.

That will be very cool for some people, thanks!

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post #116 of 603 Old 08-27-2009, 09:09 PM
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After the tip on miter lock bits I will try that and build it this winter probably.

I picked up some 22.5" miter lock bits from ebay for a good price and they worked well for me...I will posted my pics of the joints in my thread soon. Someone like you would definitely do better then me but Im still happy with them and I did it free hand with my router. A router table would have made it much, much easier.

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post #117 of 603 Old 08-27-2009, 09:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by augerpro View Post

Steve it may just be better to keep the baffle flush with front of the cabinet then to have it protrude. That can cause just the sort of dip I posted earlier in this thread of the infinite baffle mounted BBV2's. You will of course require a design with no baffle step compensation, and I will do that.

Actually there is another way to get that last 1/4" from the baffle height. I had made a 12 1/2" cutout because I planned on using these to model them with a TD12M in the future. Even with that there is about 1/8" space between the woofer cutout and horn. If you went to a 12 3/8" cutout (test this on scrap wood first) and moved the woofer up to 7 5/8" from the bottom it would just touch the horn and you would gain another 1/4" inch.

Dan the only roundover I'm really adamant about is the 1 1/4" of the baffle. The rest are basically for looks and need not be 1" like mine. You could even leave it square. The woofer cutout is 5/8" deep. The port is located on the side, centered 11 3/4" from the top and 6 3/8" from the front of the baffle. Here is pic of what I was talking about with the horn cutout and leaving some meat of the baffle, but rounding it over to fit the horn:



Note you should use a round file at the corners to make a little bit of groove to help the horn fit better. I haven't done this yet, so no pic, but after you make the cutout like the above put the horn in and you'll see the corners don't quite sit flush on the baffle. Actually you probably won't see it because it is so slight, but if you push down on teh corner like you were screwing it down you will see what I mean. Just need a little material removed at those corners to allow the horn to sit perfectly.

Brandon, is there an importance to doing a round over on the internal cutout for the horn? I just left my raw.

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post #118 of 603 Old 08-27-2009, 11:20 PM
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Regards,
Dan
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post #119 of 603 Old 08-28-2009, 06:20 AM - Thread Starter
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Looks good Dan!

Doug no real importance other than trying to keep as much baffle material there as possible. Looking back I probably could have done even better by leaving the "landing" even deeper and using the 1 1/4" since that would probably match the horn curvature tighter.
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post #120 of 603 Old 08-28-2009, 07:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by augerpro View Post

Fixed the TM height.

You know the more popular a design becomes the less I feel like comparing it to anything, since it typically devolves into a pissing contest if the other designers are present. I'll just say that the two designs obviously share some similar philosophy regarding objectives and at least for mine take considerable inspiration from Geddes' designs. I'm very happy with how my design is developing and it's meeting the criteria I set quite well. The Econowave has obviously been successful in bringing these sorts of speakers to average diy'er and that can only help my own design's popularity.

Agreed. They are both high efficiency 2 ways, and other than that, are two different projects. Ditto with Wayne's PI speakers. All good and different ways to get to a similar place.

Main difference I see between E'wave and this is E'wave didnt follow Geddes design ideas, probably closer to what Wayne on the PI site is doing, while this effort seems to be using Geddes ideas, a least as far as face plate and horn round over is concerned.

Another important difference is E'wave is basically a project for a high efficiency top, which one mates to his own woofer, and is left to manage the crossover for LP. augerpro's speaker here is a complete design, box, HP, LP, the whole stick.

I was a big advocate on the E'wave thread, and have a big set of them based on JBL 4507 and 2235H. I still am interested in building this speaker, a complete design. I'm sure there will be similarities. Pissing contests dont further projects, except the one I'll have with myself once NO Quarter is completed.

Thanks for the project, Augerpro!

Russellc
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