DIY HT Design Coax or Seperate Mid/High? - Page 9 - AVS Forum
View Poll Results: Coaxial Mid/High or Seperate Mid/Hi?
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Old 08-12-2009, 06:53 PM
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Originally Posted by dlneubec View Post

The one they used is not in the poll that Mayhem posted, so how is the one that is "good enough"?

THe poll is misleading It didnt have the actually model number and most will think its was the 8CXT. People have to read down the thread to find that out

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Old 08-12-2009, 06:55 PM
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Originally Posted by dlneubec View Post

So everyone is so enamored with using a B&C, any B&C, that they will take the inferior one that Seaton rejected rather than consider anything else. Geesh, this is unreal!

Hey, I thought it was unreal when the polls concluded..... down to 60Hz, 115dB requirements, baffle 12" wide, bookshelf, $750 total.

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Old 08-12-2009, 06:55 PM
 
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Originally Posted by dlneubec View Post

So everyone is so enamored with using a B&C, any B&C, that they will take the inferior one that Seaton rejected rather than consider anything else. Geesh, this is unreal!

No. If the 8CXT was a choice I would have picked it.
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Old 08-12-2009, 06:59 PM
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I thought I was voting for the 8CXT...sort of skimmed the first post :/ If I had to choose only one of those posted I would lean towards the 18 Sound and maybe the PAudio. But it's entirely possible the performance of those two would be poor enough that I would scratch the whole idea. Of course the 8CXT could look at that way to after I get done testing...but I have a little more faith since it's been used in successful commercial designs from people that I respect.
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Old 08-12-2009, 07:36 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by penngray View Post

THe poll is misleading It didnt have the actually model number and most will think its was the 8CXT. People have to read down the thread to find that out

God Forbid....we have to READ! That's simply unamerican.
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Old 08-12-2009, 07:38 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by mjg100 View Post

No. If the 8CXT was a choice I would have picked it.

And then b@#tched at me when we had to use PylePro woofers to finish it...NO THANK YOU!
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Old 08-12-2009, 07:42 PM
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Originally Posted by mayhem13 View Post

God Forbid....we have to READ! That's simply unamerican.

good thing Im Canadian then

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Old 08-12-2009, 07:47 PM - Thread Starter
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Can we not post here anymore..it's getting confusing. Please post all following gripes, moans and complaints to the Poll thread. Thank you for your support.
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Old 08-12-2009, 07:53 PM
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Originally Posted by penngray View Post

good thing Im Canadian then

canadians and americans have long cherished the same values. i can't imagine closer allies.

now, quebec city, that's a whole 'nother story. ;-)

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Old 08-12-2009, 07:55 PM
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Originally Posted by mayhem13 View Post

Can we not post here anymore..it's getting confusing. Please post all following gripes, moans and complaints to the Poll thread. Thank you for your support.

What kind of controlling........

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Old 08-12-2009, 08:00 PM
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Originally Posted by penngray View Post

Hey, I thought it was unreal when the polls concluded..... down to 60Hz, 115dB requirements, baffle 12" wide, bookshelf, $750 total.

what happened to the stupid bms coax that i posted?

http://www.bmspro.info/12CN680.bms_1...nsducer.0.html

how is this better than the econowave over a td12-h?

?consufed

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Old 08-12-2009, 08:13 PM
 
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Originally Posted by mayhem13 View Post

And then b@#tched at me when we had to use PylePro woofers to finish it...NO THANK YOU!

I actually am interested in your idea of using the Eminence Beta-8cx/CD and a pair of Nomex 8's. It would take some testing of various CD's. What is the sesitivity of a pair of Nomex 8's?
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Old 08-12-2009, 11:01 PM
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Originally Posted by dlneubec View Post

Before you dismiss drivers out of hand, shouldn't you at least ask Danley and/or Seaton whether they tested the P.Audio, BMS, Eminence or other 8" coaxes and if so why they chose the B&C instead? Wouldn't it be a good idea to be sure TD will do the design work before making further decisions?

For that matter, why are we just looking at 8" coaxes? Why does it have to be a three-way? Why not just a good compact monitor with a 10" or 12" coax? That seems more appropriate for HT anyway, because one can put the smaller boxes at the same elevation over an LCD and locate the bass units remotely. (I know lots run projectors, but big LCD's way outsell projectors, and are more useful in multi-use rooms anyway)

A bespoke 12" coax with the small/cheap BMS compression driver and a Danley crossover sounds like a speaker I'd want in my flat.

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Old 08-12-2009, 11:31 PM
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Originally Posted by DS-21 View Post

For that matter, why are we just looking at 8" coaxes? Why does it have to be a three-way? Why not just a good compact monitor with a 10" or 12" coax? That seems more appropriate for HT anyway, because one can put the smaller boxes at the same elevation over an LCD and locate the bass units remotely. (I know lots run projectors, but big LCD's way outsell projectors, and are more useful in multi-use rooms anyway)

A bespoke 12" coax with the small/cheap BMS compression driver and a Danley crossover sounds like a speaker I'd want in my flat.

I can think of all kinds of places I could use a coax based 2 way (8,10,or12)

Like my living room, surrounds in my theater, and some jammin speaks for the garage to rock the neighborhood with..

I could see building a whole army of em
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Old 08-13-2009, 12:35 AM
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Originally Posted by ZilchLab View Post

A couple of years ago, the P-Audios were considered the "bee's knees" of co-axials.

Somebody's going to have to buy a pair and measure....

I have 4 BM8CXA, 1 SN12C, 1 BM15CXHB and 2 BM15CX38 all new. But it will be a couple of weeks before I can get back to the workshop and test them.
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Old 08-13-2009, 12:53 AM
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Originally Posted by zamboniman View Post

I can think of all kinds of places I could use a coax based 2 way (8,10,or12)

Like my living room, surrounds in my theater, and some jammin speaks for the garage to rock the neighborhood with..

I could see building a whole army of em

Exactly. A simple 2-way coax is just about the most placement-friendly speaker one can design. I say keep the mains simple, i.e. one coax driver of preferably 10" or 12", and let people add whatever they want below that. As long as it has high efficiency and plays into the modal range (say, an F3 of anywhere from 60-100 Hz) I'm fine with the low end.

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Old 08-13-2009, 05:24 AM
 
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Originally Posted by DS-21 View Post

Exactly. A simple 2-way coax is just about the most placement-friendly speaker one can design. I say keep the mains simple, i.e. one coax driver of preferably 10" or 12", and let people add whatever they want below that. As long as it has high efficiency and plays into the modal range (say, an F3 of anywhere from 60-100 Hz) I'm fine with the low end.

Guys, I agree with this 100%. Please move these posts over to the other thread to make sure that Mayhem13 sees them. I was thinking of just using an 8" though to keep it even smaller. Basically a passive "Sparks". The Sparks will go loud and down to around 70Hz. The small size will allow it to go just about anywhere.
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Old 08-13-2009, 07:28 AM
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Originally Posted by DS-21 View Post

Exactly. A simple 2-way coax is just about the most placement-friendly speaker one can design. I say keep the mains simple, i.e. one coax driver of preferably 10" or 12", and let people add whatever they want below that. As long as it has high efficiency and plays into the modal range (say, an F3 of anywhere from 60-100 Hz) I'm fine with the low end.

You are forgetting that one of the polls that Mayham has to follow is that this is a 3-way design!

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Old 08-13-2009, 07:29 AM
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Originally Posted by DS-21 View Post

For that matter, why are we just looking at 8" coaxes? Why does it have to be a three-way? Why not just a good compact monitor with a 10" or 12" coax? That seems more appropriate for HT anyway, because one can put the smaller boxes at the same elevation over an LCD and locate the bass units remotely. (I know lots run projectors, but big LCD's way outsell projectors, and are more useful in multi-use rooms anyway)

A bespoke 12" coax with the small/cheap BMS compression driver and a Danley crossover sounds like a speaker I'd want in my flat.

Many pre-existing rules from poll results exist.

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Old 08-13-2009, 07:39 AM
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I think that BMS 12" coax was cool. The only issues I have are that I doubt it will fit on a 12" baffle-and I have this issue for using the 12" woofers for bass too. And there is no polars to guage it's cone/horn performance. Although they usually look worst on axis and this looks pretty good so maybe not a problem. A last concern is this looks like a mid woofer and requires some midbass/bass reinforcement if I remember the plots correctly.
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Old 08-13-2009, 10:15 AM
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Wow. Some crazy speculation going on in all directions. One minor point I would add is that as manufacturers both Danley Sound Labs and myself have to make choices based on more than just performance. If performance is comparable, and one supplier is much easier to deal with and has a much better history of delivery or other factors, that's highly important to a business. There were some parts I wrote off simply because supply was still too flaky to hedge my business on.

It is possible to make a few different solutions work impressively so long as they don't have any fatal flaws and are compatible with the goals you have.

DIYers may have different goals than I or Tom did. As one very obvious/simple example I needed a coaxial which would give good results in both the Spark and the Catalyst style designs. Capabilities of the woofers also play a part and the requirements will vary for different designs.

The best results always come from examining a few options to confirm you have a suitable driver for your particular use.

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Old 08-13-2009, 11:05 AM
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Mark considering their use here, how would you compare the 8CX21, 8CXT and 18 Sound 8CX400?
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Old 08-13-2009, 11:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by penngray View Post

Many pre-existing rules from poll results exist.

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Originally Posted by augerpro View Post

I think that BMS 12" coax was cool. The only issues I have are that I doubt it will fit on a 12" baffle

Maybe there should be a new poll: should these speakers be hamstrung by the results of older polls, yes or no.

A baffle for a 12" coax should probably be ~20" wide, to account for the roundover required to make a difference in terms of diffraction. Then again, an 8" coax requires a baffle of about 14" wide.

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-and I have this issue for using the 12" woofers for bass too.

At any conceivable listening level, unless one's room is really a 150-seat auditorium, the excursion levels are going to be so low with three 12" coaxes across the front that treble modulation and other nasties that can afflict coaxes just aren't an issue. I'm able to run my three Tannoy 12 DMT II-based mains full range (supported by multiple subwoofers, of course), whereas when I was running 8" coaxes up front a highpass filter was required to avoid nastiness on fff passages.

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Old 08-13-2009, 12:39 PM
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My point was that this BMS coax appears to require bass/midbass reinforcement-it really is a mid. I don't know if an additional 12" woofer would fit in the budget and two 8" woofers would look kind of funny. Although for some creative types you could probably make some artistic look out of the weird dimensions.
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Old 12-15-2011, 01:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by findbuddha View Post

Earl Gedlee has suggested that PAudio's specs are fiction. Though some people have had success with their drivers. I think there's a coax user on DIYaudio

I have both Geddes speakers and P-Audio speakers in my listening room. My Summas use the B&C 15TBX100 and my TH-Mini 'clone'* uses the P-Audio SN-12MB. The P-Audio woofer is a nice unit. It won't handle the power that the B&C will, but it is also cheaper. The build quality is excellent and the specs aren't any further off from the published numbers than what I've seen from most manufacturers. (IE, you need to measure you're drivers anyways if you're gonna DIY. It's a must.)

Not saying P-Audio is as good as B&C, but it's definitely a step up from companies like Goldwood. In some respects it's superior to midrange stuff like Eminence. I'm surprised more people don't use them.
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