The Quasar Array (8) LMS 5400 in (4) Dual Opposed Sealed Cabinets - Page 7 - AVS Forum
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post #181 of 440 Old 01-15-2010, 12:08 PM
 
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Health,

I haven't read the entire thread, but what kind of output improvement will this set up gain you over your 'Black Holes' ? If I recall, the BH's were not exactly lacking....much.

Regards,
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post #182 of 440 Old 01-18-2010, 03:33 PM
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Latest word from Julie at TC-Sounds - LMS's will be shipping out about the second week of Feb... a little later then they thought....

Just updating anyone that is interested...
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post #183 of 440 Old 01-18-2010, 03:43 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the update. Not surprising... unfortunate.
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post #184 of 440 Old 01-18-2010, 03:54 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goneten View Post

Health,

I haven't read the entire thread, but what kind of output improvement will this set up gain you over your 'Black Holes' ? If I recall, the BH's were not exactly lacking....much.

Regards,

I supose the amazing thing about the LMS is the small size requirement to achieve 0.5 Q sealed. The Xmax, displacement, powerhandling, and the raw performance of the LMS 5400 just made me want to go with multiple sealed subs in smaller enclosures, with much more output in the single digits.

The Black Hole subs are the ultimate cabinet for those Aura/Seismic drivers. The quality is amazing. I just wanted to surpass the output into the single digits. I put the Black Hole Subs on Audiogon and had a few people interested. It is hard to deal with people on the Internet and selling. They are still for sale, but the one guy who did come over to demo them in person was hooked... he just doesn't have the space... He is trying to get a friend to buy one. I won't sell them as anything less two, since they really should be sold as 2 or 4.

The Marchand Bassis is finally shipping out next week. He had to wait quite a bit for the custom faceplate to get finished...

The electrician is coming tomorrow, so we will change the outlets or get an adapter cable... I hope we can find that European outlet type here...
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post #185 of 440 Old 01-27-2010, 10:37 PM - Thread Starter
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The custom Bassis arrived on Friday:

Bypass Switch
XLR connections
Almost 4 ocaves of boost
LL
LL
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post #186 of 440 Old 01-27-2010, 10:38 PM - Thread Starter
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The Stone arrived.... The drivers are supposed to ship out on Feb 8th.
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post #187 of 440 Old 01-28-2010, 06:02 AM
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Nice on the Basis..... may I ask what the price of the upgrade was...?

Thanks
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post #188 of 440 Old 01-28-2010, 06:49 AM - Thread Starter
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Total cost with shipping was $1,050.00 or something like that... I need to take some room measurements ultimately.

I will see what the new Lab Gruppen outboard processer does, and it is quite possible I might switch to only the Lab Gruppen processing in the future. Between the Meridian room correction and potentially getting the Lab Gruppen external processor, the BASSIS may not be neccessary. Since the subs are already at 0.5 Q, I don't think the Q correction is all that necessary.

Thanks to Bosso for the tip on the bypass feature, which was prvided as an option by Phil Marchand.
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post #189 of 440 Old 01-28-2010, 07:00 AM
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I still need to get a Bassis. I'd probably want the same upgrades as XLR's are a must and the bypass would be nice. How long was the wait?
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post #190 of 440 Old 01-28-2010, 07:08 AM - Thread Starter
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The wait was long, but I lost a couple weeks to the holidays apparently. I was about 11 weeks wait. It was supposed to be about 6 weeks. I was not in a hurry though. So if you emphasize that you need it soon, I'm sure he could meet the 6 week deadline. The front panel is custom and he ships that out to get engraved and done outside, so that takes time.
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post #191 of 440 Old 01-28-2010, 09:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Health Nut View Post

The wait was long, but I lost a couple weeks to the holidays apparently. I was about 11 weeks wait. It was supposed to be about 6 weeks. I was not in a hurry though. So if you emphasize that you need it soon, I'm sure he could meet the 6 week deadline. The front panel is custom and he ships that out to get engraved and done outside, so that takes time.

That's damn nice.

Forgive the stupid question(s) as I know so little about the Bassis,
but what exactly did you have customized?

And, are you saying you can apply boost below 20Hz as well?

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post #192 of 440 Old 01-28-2010, 10:13 AM - Thread Starter
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Standard is:

RCA connections, no bypass mode, and 24dB gain.

The unit is essentially flat/D.C. coupled according to Phil Marchand. If you chose 3 octaves of boost (36db) and pick Fs of 30 Hz, you would get 12db/octave boost all the way to: 30 -> 15 -> 7.5 Hz -> 3.75 Hz

There is 44 dB gain on this custom Bassis, hehe.

I think what I would do is start somewhere around 50 Hz and apply about 3 octaves of boost: 50 - 25 - 12.5 - 6.25

That is why I chose the Lab Gruppen 14000 Amps (also flat to 1.5 Hz!) and (8) LMS 5400 drivers.
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post #193 of 440 Old 01-28-2010, 12:21 PM
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Nice man!

That should do the trick! Thanks for the info!

I keep kicking around going the Bassis route as well. However, I need the ability to change delay as well.ugh.

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post #194 of 440 Old 01-30-2010, 07:05 PM - Thread Starter
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HOLY LIVING SHEIT! I hooked up the BASSIS to the Meridian 861 V4/Lab Gruppens and then to the BLACK HOLE SUBS. This was the first time I saw the Black Hole Subs get driven like this... utterly amazing. I cant wait to see what these Subwoofers can do when completed...

...and I only have 2 of the BH subs getting driven: I can't figure out how to parallel the signal from Channel A to Channel B on the Lab Gruppens... I just have one XLR going into Channel A for both amps and I am currently running them in stereo. With the QSC Audio amps, you just hit a dip switch and it send the same input to channel B... Do I really have to use XLR -Y adapters?? Hmmmm.... All I see in the manual is talk about bridging, but nothing about just simply sending the input from A to B... Usually this can be done by a dip switch.
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post #195 of 440 Old 01-30-2010, 07:47 PM
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Nice little piece of gear. Mine took all of ten minutes to setup with TrueRta.

With an F3 around 36hz, it was a must ! I haven't read the whole thread, why stereo ? I'll say Duh, if you have stereo subs Lol.

KG
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post #196 of 440 Old 01-30-2010, 08:09 PM
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Congrats man!

It is a bonus when you get something in your setup that is worth every penny!

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post #197 of 440 Old 01-30-2010, 08:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Health Nut View Post

...and I only have 2 of the BH subs getting driven: I can't figure out how to parallel the signal from Channel A to Channel B on the Lab Gruppens... I just have one XLR going into Channel A for both amps and I am currently running them in stereo. With the QSC Audio amps, you just hit a dip switch and it send the same input to channel B... Do I really have to use XLR -Y adapters?? Hmmmm.... All I see in the manual is talk about bridging, but nothing about just simply sending the input from A to B... Usually this can be done by a dip switch.

I couldn't find an OM on their website, and the A&E specs only mention 2ch and bridged, no parallel. Might need to make some Y cables.
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post #198 of 440 Old 01-31-2010, 08:52 AM - Thread Starter
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I see something mentioned about a link, and just outside the female XLR pair of inputs, there are a male pair of XLR inputs saying "link"... In any case, I'll have to email Lab Gruppen. I made some other dip switch setting changes as well:

The default is soft clip, but I changed that to hard clip which is recommended when driving subwoofers. The gain setting is default at 38dB, but I bumped it up to 41dB. Max is 44dB. I'll have to ask them about that as well, since I need every drop of juice out of these FP+ 14000's, they have there work cut out for them once these subwoofers are done. A real luxury would be to have 4 of these amps.

About stereo subs:

1) The Meridian 861 does have stereo sub capability and will send the rolled off left main channel bass to the left sub, and the right main channel to the right sub.

2) I have to run them in stereo mode once they are driving 8 LMS 5400 so that the total load is 2 ohms stereo, 2 drivers per channel.

It is just that I expected the Lab Gruppens to have that "parallel input" ability... You know what!! I think I understand what to do!! It just hit me! I think all I have to do is take anothr XLR cable and loop it from the link to channel B... no Y connector but simply jut take another XLR cable and take it from that looped output to the B input. I'm certain that is it. Nontheless, I need to email Lab Gruppen anyway...
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post #199 of 440 Old 02-04-2010, 09:08 AM - Thread Starter
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1) I think all I have to do is take another XLR cable and loop it from the “Link Channel A” to channel B... is this correct? I have XLR Y-adapters, but what is the better way to do it? Run another XLR cable from “Link Channel A” to channel B or use XLR Y-adaper to feed Ch A and Ch B?

response:

If you use same type of connectors and cables there will not be any difference! So I will do a small link XLR for the B channels!



I chose to use XLR y-adapters since I had a high quality pair But you could just use a small patch XLR to link the channels.



2) Fan masked setting, does this matter?

Reply:

NO, leave it in normal. The idle speed will be the same, max speed will be the same, in normal position the fan will follow the amp temp and bring the unit down to idle speed/ temp. In mask mode you will have full speed and if you remove input signal then the fans will go to idle in one step and then use the idle speed to cool the unit down in temp! ( more on / off type of fan )


3) Given our use, is there any other advice or dip switch settings you recommend?

Reply:

YES. VPL settings. Make and A / B test. ( same gain, same cables ex.) A amp with all VPL ‘s on max and b amp with a lower VPL level. Try to start with 54V, you must play so “loud” so the VPL LED on the front light up on the front. Then you can here the “sound” of the VPL limiter, then set the VPL up to 80 , 100, 130V to find the best performance for your system. IF the CPL led lights up then go one step down to avoid the CPL hit in ! ( CPL is a current limiter = max Ampere and it will not sound so great. ) ( I expect you will end up with 140 -170! )


I'm not sure I'm following... I just left it maxed at 195V... don't see the point of trying to bring it down...??


In any case, these amps rock. However, once they try driving (8) LMS 5400, I'm sure I'll be tempted to buy (2) more FP+14000 :-) and then maybe (8) more LMS5400... then another 4 more FP+14000!! That would be awesome. No need for fan sub now... but electric bill will be $2500.00 a month.

Looking forward to having the drivers ship out on Monday!!

If I can get the drivers next week, I can test fit the drivers and take the cabinets to the Stone people.
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post #200 of 440 Old 02-04-2010, 10:51 AM
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The LG amps are usually very tightly reigned in when used in a "pro" rig with all kinds of current limiting, filtering, eqing,etc. going on to keep from frying or bottoming out drivers and to avoid clipping even under a worst case scenario. Driving 4 LMS's off of one amp I wouldn't worry about it. If you wanted to try to be safe you could try the lightest amount. Maybe 190 if it will aloow that?
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post #201 of 440 Old 02-07-2010, 09:13 PM
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"holy living sheit!"

:-)

Listen. It's All Good.
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post #202 of 440 Old 02-10-2010, 12:21 PM - Thread Starter
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I'm looking for recommendations on the highest quality threaded inserts.

Out of curiousity, are the screws that come with the LMS 5400 wood screws or machine screws, I forget.

I like even tension on all screws. I know this is not a submarine, but it is all about quality in details for me... I used to use T-Nuts, but I'm thinking threaded inserts this time.
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post #203 of 440 Old 02-10-2010, 01:30 PM
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The screws that come with the TC Drivers are wood screws with hex head caps.
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post #204 of 440 Old 02-10-2010, 02:00 PM
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I like Hurricane Nuts

Regards,
Dan
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post #205 of 440 Old 02-10-2010, 02:41 PM
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So HealthNut, will AVS'ers be able to pay for a demo of your system when it's up and running? I'd kill to hear this monster in action once it's been completed.

Verum postulo res.
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post #206 of 440 Old 02-10-2010, 02:44 PM
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I used hurricane nuts on my first couple builds.

Then I switched to the barbed nuts and they seem to work much better.
They fit tighter, resist turning and are not prone to being pushed out unlike the hurricane nuts even when glued in.

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post #207 of 440 Old 02-10-2010, 05:42 PM
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How about a threaded insert....

Personally I agree with you and should have gone this route, and I may choose so when I have to revisit this...

here is a pretty nice scenario IMO and should be pretty sturdy...
http://www.amazon.com/6-32-Brass-Threaded-Inserts-Wood/dp/B000O65BSQ/ref=pd_sim_hi_1


Or these....
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post #208 of 440 Old 02-11-2010, 07:03 AM
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The barbed nut inserts that DSL uses on the DTS10 and I assume everything else, are awesome. Next build I do I'm switching to those for sure.
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post #209 of 440 Old 02-11-2010, 07:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricci View Post

The barbed nut inserts that DSL uses on the DTS10 and I assume everything else, are awesome. Next build I do I'm switching to those for sure.

Is that much like what I have posted there in the picture Ricci....?

http://www.accuratefasteners.com/Inv...2CatID=LKA9500
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post #210 of 440 Old 02-19-2010, 12:42 PM - Thread Starter
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Was this still the conclusion on the thread under T-Nuts. threaded inserts, barbed.... ?
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